CSM: "Cheese" Nurgle grounded Dual Lash with Oblit backing, 1500pt

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**Razerous**

Basically, my friend mentioned the "cheese" or over-powered brokenness of some units and unit combinations, providing it as a reason to why he wouldn't field them. I think this a bit of BS (Baloney Sandwiches), while I concede that the following build (hopefully with your help/changes) is extremely powerful, its simply an efficient use of points and a clever use of CSM abilities and strategies... The only problem is horde control. I want your help to refine a list based on the above that I could offer to him to play, then try & beat down and feed him some of his own cheese!

HQ:
Daemon Prince + Mark Of Slaanesh, Wings, Lash of Submission = 155

Daemon Prince + MoS, Wings, LoS = 155

Troops:
Plague Marines (x7) + 2x Melta gun, Champion, Power Fist, Rhino, Havoc Launcher = 271

Plague Marines (x7) + 2x Melta gun, Champion, Power fist, Rhino, Havoc Launcher = 271

Plague Marines (x7) + 2x Plasma gun, Rhino, Havoc Launcher* = 241
*More blasts, long range, that work v.well with the lash & add to limited horde control?
Elites:
Chaos Terminators (x3) + 3x Combi-melta = 105

Heavy Support:
Obliterator Cult (x2) = 150

Obliterator Cult (x2) = 150

= 1498

I've opted out of champs & power fists in favour of havoc launchers and an additional Obliterator cult lone member (Either for target saturation or deep-striking multi-melta/etc). The reason why is that I have enough heavy hitting units that I can counter-assault with to get the plague marines out of detrimental tarpits.

Good/bad? Changes? Different builds entirely (but based on PM's, dual lash & oblits..?). Thanks

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

For 2 squads of PMs-plasma to melta, fists on champs, Havocs out, single oblit out. Fill with combis.

Then you have the optimal CSM 1500.
EDIT-Assuming it fits your playstyle. Playtest at least twice before you face him.

**Aztralwolf**

Yes I would say all you really need to deal with horde is some flamers/combi-flamers. Shouldn't be too hard to rearrange some points for that.

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

Lash + Oblit Plasma Cannons is anti-horde. not to mention that PMs can stall horde and grind through them. The DPs can jump in to jack out one squad at a time.

**Aztralwolf**

Probably right, I just like having a few teardrops for more hits at once. Just personal preference.

**rashad**

The only real flaw I see is the axing melta and fist in the PM squads.

The cheese list is deadly because each element in the list (DP, PM, Oblit) can deal with hoards, HQ, armor, and MCs with rapid efficiency. You are never caught with your pants down.

Without this, you will have to maneuver well, and may be vulnerable to a Creeded Leman Russ Squad, or some such.

**Razerous**

Alrite - Edited main list, I've swapped in two melta-squads with included fisting champions. I've kept one plasma gun lot for backfielders. I've also kept the 3 havoc launchers, as they are just as good as Plasma Cannons when it comes to lash-based horde control, less so against T4 but then this is offset by the twin-linkage.

45pts that could be spent on 1-shot 10pt combi-weapons... not somthing I'd think wise. I would need to drop a termie combi-melta in order to fit a third Champ+fist combo (if I were to drop the havocs) and this seems counter-productive.

Doing well?

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

If you drop Havocs, that gives you 45. A champ + PF is 40. Spend 5 on something. Done.

**Razerous**

Ah sorry, for some strange and weird reason I thought it was 50 (and I could not have easily found the spare points). As It stands, I think the havocs will kill more game-for-game than the third champ & first for the backfield squad.

But beside that point of contention which I'm probably wrong on, thanks for the feedback

**Regwon**

Dual lash has no problem with hordes. Even with run they arent likely to be able to move more than a few inches every turn with you lashing them back and hitting them with plasma cannon.

Stick with meltas on all your PM squads. Plasma guns are only good for killing MCs and terminators, and with the number of oblits you should have they wont be a problem. Being able to one-shot pesky nobs is good as well. Keeping all of your PM squads identical means that each squad can do the job that the other can. This redundancy makes the list stronger. Having one sqaud that is significantly different makes the list less powerful. Also always keep the powerfist on the champions, so that the PMs actually have some sting in combat.

Havoc launchers are a waste of points on rhinos. Rhinos are transports, not mini-tanks. Thier job is to get your PM squads to where they need to go and give them some extra protection. It isnt worth trying to make them do more than that.

What's the point of your termicide squad? They dont really seem to do anything that wouldnt be covered by taking some more oblits. You also dont have any icons in your list, so if they do manage to scatter within critical range of a vehicle, you will have been lucky. Drop them and with the points you save from scrapping the havoc launchers get another two oblits.

**Fearspect**

Drop Terminators, drop Havoc launchers, consider even dropping plague marines to 5 man squads.

5x Plague Marines
Power fist, 2x Melta, Personal Icon, Rhino
215 points

Add more obliterators.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Go big or go home.

**Iron_Chaos_Brute**

Sigh. You don't need more than 4 Oblits at 1500. Termicide is needed to cripple Raider rush/BW rush before it's right in your face. 5 PMs is too few. For 1750, you add 2 Oblits and another Termicide, for 1850, another Termicide, for 2000, 2 more Oblits. That's how dual lash works.

**Gavrock**

Two Lash Princes with Wings. Three seven man Plague Marine squads with double meltaguns, Fist Champ and Personal Icons in Rhinos. One three man termicide squad with a combi-melta each. Two cults of two Obliterators.

Done, with two points to spare.