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I really like the look of ogryns and have looked at other posts on this forums and i have seen some that say taking a ogryn squad with a lord commisar would be a good option I would probably take them in a chimera but I have never used them before so any opinion would be great. The reason i'm looking into this is although the CCS is good I just don't like how weak they are and i really like the ogryn models and lord commisar and i just want to know how effective they can be. thanks in advance

Ogyrn cost too much each. If you want a close combat unit then you've the following options.

>Armoured sentinels ... most things will bounce off AV12.
>Close combat units from Daemon hunters and/or Witch hunters codex using the allies rules
>A Large Platoon with a commissar and Power swords and fists.

If you like the models there is nothing stopping you. I have used them in a few games and they are surprisingly effective. Effective enough to justify in a tourney setting? Havent played enough versus different enemies. For casual games heck why not? They are not a total failure, and are surprisingly resilient versus anything below s10.

Remember they are practically walking heavy bolters with a range of 12" and ap-, and 5 of them can fire out of the top hatch of a chimera. And make sure to try to get a charge in order to cause as much wounds as possible.

Ogryns are definitely an example of more effective on the table than in your head. I rarely used them before this codex, but the T5 boost makes them infinitely more resilient. I run 6 with a commissar lord in my all infantry list, and they can beat most units in close combat, excepting terminators and nob bikers. As for the ripper gun, I dropped an avatar by ordering them to bring it down, so that potency cannot be forgotten. Nork Deddog on the other hand, I can't see a situation where he would be good...just way to expensive.

And even better than the commissar lord, is the ogryn pairing with commissar yarrick. He has the priest rule, but it actually works on ogryns, unlike the priest. And he also gives them a much needed power fist. pretty tough to kill as well.

thx for the advice but first to shep if i took yarrick he is very expensive and i don't know if i would have the points for him its a 1850 list and i would rather have them with the lord commisar in a chimera than having to sacrifice the chimera and something else to get him on the list.

I've tried to make Ogryn awesome. I've tried so hard. I have 6 of them, one painted quite nicely, so I have every incentive to try.

I got the charge with a 5 man squad with Yarrick, we attacked an Chaos Lord with a 16 man squad of chaos marines. Lost one ogryn (2 more wounds on the bone 'ead) and dropped about 3 of their guys. I make the leadership check. Things get worse, but the "scariness" of the Ogryn kept wounds off of Yarrick long enough for him to plow through the Lord. Next round I lose another ogryn, drop 3 more marines, and the Possessed with power weapons who have been charging for two rounds to get to me finally make it. It gets worse from there.

They need either at least I3 or the option for power weapons, probably both.

freddieyu1 wrote:If you like the models there is nothing stopping you.

Other than the outrageous monetary cost for the official models, of course.
5 infantry models for $100? No thank you.

Ogryns are alright, but ineffective against many things you'd want to throw them at and probably overcosted.

Gorkamorka wrote:

freddieyu1 wrote:If you like the models there is nothing stopping you.

Other than the outrageous monetary cost for the official models, of course.
5 infantry models for $100? No thank you.

Ogryns are alright, but ineffective against many things you'd want to throw them at and probably overcosted.

Are you quoting from experience? or from theory?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

daedalus wrote:I've tried to make Ogryn awesome. I've tried so hard. I have 6 of them, one painted quite nicely, so I have every incentive to try.

I got the charge with a 5 man squad with Yarrick, we attacked an Chaos Lord with a 16 man squad of chaos marines. Lost one ogryn (2 more wounds on the bone 'ead) and dropped about 3 of their guys. I make the leadership check. Things get worse, but the "scariness" of the Ogryn kept wounds off of Yarrick long enough for him to plow through the Lord. Next round I lose another ogryn, drop 3 more marines, and the Possessed with power weapons who have been charging for two rounds to get to me finally make it. It gets worse from there.

They need either at least I3 or the option for power weapons, probably both.

Your ogryns and Yarrick did fine! Were you really expecting them to win versus the unit you selected them to charge? How many turns did you hold them up? If those ogryns did not hold them up, what would those 16 man CSM and possessed unit be doing? Probably chewing through your other units that could really hurt the CSM army? You managed to divert 2 powerful units to focus on the ogryns.

The lesson here is that do not judge them for what they actually kill, but for the effect they have on the game. The rest of your army should have managed to take advantage of the delay the ogryns and yarrick did for you. In addition, if you wanted the ogryns and yarrick to have a chance to win the fight, you should have softened the enemy unit first by shooting at them to reduce the odds. It looks like your expectations are too high. You have to be realistic and manage expectations. Playing IG is not about this unit must kill this, or must kill that. It is knowing what to sacrifice in order for the entire army to win.

A cheap way to get lots of Ogryns is just to buy Warhammer Fantasy Ogres that are plastic and convert them. Its not difficult. I have seen a combination of using the metal ones and the ogres from fantasy they turn out really well.

My experience with yarrick and an squad of ogryn in a chimera is very positive. As was said earlier, don't take them and expect to mow through abbaddon and 10 terminators, but if you have realistic expectations and use them properly, they can swing the game for you.

Volkov wrote:Nork Deddog on the other hand, I can't see a situation where he would be good...just way to expensive.

He is 3 Immune to Instand Death Wounds for your Company Comand Squad.

Your ogryns and Yarrick did fine! Were you really expecting them to win versus the unit you selected them to charge? How many turns did you hold them up? If those ogryns did not hold them up, what would those 16 man CSM and possessed unit be doing? Probably chewing through your other units that could really hurt the CSM army? You managed to divert 2 powerful units to focus on the ogryns.

The lesson here is that do not judge them for what they actually kill, but for the effect they have on the game. The rest of your army should have managed to take advantage of the delay the ogryns and yarrick did for you. In addition, if you wanted the ogryns and yarrick to have a chance to win the fight, you should have softened the enemy unit first by shooting at them to reduce the odds. It looks like your expectations are too high. You have to be realistic and manage expectations. Playing IG is not about this unit must kill this, or must kill that. It is knowing what to sacrifice in order for the entire army to win.

Well said old boy

He is 3 Immune to Instand Death Wounds for your Company Comand Squad.

Yes but you cant take bodyguards, and I usually give my command squad camo cloaks and plop them in cover, so it seems like 1 extra wound for 80 points.

He is 3 Immune to Instand Death Wounds for your Company Comand Squad.

Yes but you cant take bodyguards, and I usually give my command squad camo cloaks and plop them in cover, so it seems like 1 extra wound for 80 points.

That is literally a TON of points though. What? Like over 400?

Karon wrote:That is literally a TON of points though. What? Like over 400?

510 without transport or the Camo-Cloaks

freddieyu1 wrote:Your ogryns and Yarrick did fine! Were you really expecting them to win versus the unit you selected them to charge? How many turns did you hold them up? If those ogryns did not hold them up, what would those 16 man CSM and possessed unit be doing? Probably chewing through your other units that could really hurt the CSM army? You managed to divert 2 powerful units to focus on the ogryns.

The lesson here is that do not judge them for what they actually kill, but for the effect they have on the game. The rest of your army should have managed to take advantage of the delay the ogryns and yarrick did for you. In addition, if you wanted the ogryns and yarrick to have a chance to win the fight, you should have softened the enemy unit first by shooting at them to reduce the odds. It looks like your expectations are too high. You have to be realistic and manage expectations. Playing IG is not about this unit must kill this, or must kill that. It is knowing what to sacrifice in order for the entire army to win.

I guess at the very least it kept them away from my objective. They were held up for about 2 1/2 turns. I think the major plus was that this allowed me to single out their HQ choice hiding in that squad. My problem is that I feel like I could have tarpitted just as well with about 20 guardsmen and a commissar and saved myself 325 points. Alternatively, with 3 more LRBT for the same price, I could have never given them a target and completely wiped them out.

Still, it sucks charging up to something and then standing there while they get the first hit.

I've had ogryns used against me a bunch of times. They can't beat a good CC unit but they can take on most other things. They can certainly take on a tactical squad and win.

The problem is using them. There are plenty of other things that can clear an objective in an IG army - artillery, massed lasgun fire, etc and sentinels make a better tarpit.

Use them aggressively, but also support them with shooting. They can even be a decent tank busting unit. 4 s6 attacks each versus r10 armor will produce results, and the resulting explosion will barely scratch them.

With T-5, W-3 they are imune to ID, most armies need a 6+ to wound them and most MEQ's need a 5+ to wound them. it takes S-7 weapons to hurt them on a 2+.
Have Creed use his Tactical Genius on a squad of them and them keep using "For the Honour of Cadia!" on them, that will give them 4 WS-4 S-6, I-3 Attacks each on the charge. then if you give them Yarrick or a Lord Comisar...

Anybody tried running a unit of 5 Ogryn in a Chimera with an allied Grey Knight Grand Master riding along?

Odd imagery I admit, the ornately armored GK Grand Master riding in the puke-wagon with the Ogryn.

Bumps the Ogryn's stubborn up to Ld10. And the I5 nemesis force weapon might well kill enough opponents that it helps minimize how many swings can go into the Ogryn, causing fewer wounds, making it more likely you'll win the fight, etc. His Terminator armor also gives you a place to dump the ocassional random wound.

I've thought about it, but a grandmaster is very expensive...how about a brother captain instead (although he may not survive long enough..)

Much cheaper but (if I remember my numbers correctly) bumps the initiative down to 4 and loses the "force" part of the Nemesis Force Weapon. Both are potentially important.

Thing is, I almost always run either a Grand Master with Psychic Hood or Inquisitor Lord with Psychic Hood. Lash of Submission and Eldar powers were already tempting me to mainboard psychic defense... but Jaws of the World Wolf is just too big a threat to my blob squad commissars. So if I'm going to run a Grand Master with Hood, leading Ogryn is not the worst secondary job for him.

Not that I think Ogryn are terribly good for competitive games, to be honest. Even with a Grey Knight hero helping out. Still, it's something to experiment with.

Just take a Null Rod

Ogryns are expensive. They really can not face dedicated close combat units ( Terminators, Death Company, Nobs etc ) and hope to win. They are Stubborn but only with a Leadership of 7 with a Bonehead! I have used Ogryns a couple times in large scale ( total 10K+ ) battles where I have the luxury to use 200 to 400 points in a non-optimal unit just to try something new. In normal 1.5 to 2K battles I will settle for the traditional Guard doctrine: more guns, more pie.

Having said all that, I must confess that my Ogryns have so far managed to surprise me positively. In the last game where they took part, they performed well beyond my expectations. They managed to fight a Chaos Terminator Squad to a standstill . This effectively stopped the enemy center from overrunning our positions.

Also, they're not only expensive themselves but need a further substantial point investment to deal with that Ld7.

Ogryn are thematically cool IMO. But in the old codex Ogryn were garbage. When I saw that they were just garbage in a different way in the new codex it was almost heartbreaking. I've proxied them quite a few times in casual games, going into the game with pretty low expectations... only to be disappointed even beyond that.

Finally got around to buying and painting the models for them so have been kicking around the idea of teaming them up with a Grand Master. Maybe they'll perform better.

One of the things that really infuriates me about them is the arbitrary restrictions on Ogryn. No priest bonus with a scanty fluff justification when they're about the only entry in the codex where you might actually want a priest? No ability to ride in a Valkyrie when a first turn Ogryn assault might actually justify their enormous point cost? Neither of those combinations is even remotely broken, even in combination... so why prohibit them?

It's even harder to justify their use when Grey Knight Terminators are so badassed for a similar point value and can fill up the same FOC slot.

Ugh, I'm ranting. Poor Ogryn.

Ok some one Mathhammer me.
I don't see how they are a bad CC Choice
WS-4 [Better than a IG]
BS- [Same as a IG]
S-5 [2-Better than a IG
T-5 [2-Better than a IG and Imune to Instant Death]
W-3 [3x Better than a IG]
I-2 [Low]
Save 5+ [Same as IG]
Ripper Gun: Range 12 Assualt Heavy Bolter with no Pen

Ivan wrote:Also, they're not only expensive themselves but need a further substantial point investment to deal with that Ld7.

Ogryn are thematically cool IMO. But in the old codex Ogryn were garbage. When I saw that they were just garbage in a different way in the new codex it was almost heartbreaking. I've proxied them quite a few times in casual games, going into the game with pretty low expectations... only to be disappointed even beyond that.

Finally got around to buying and painting the models for them so have been kicking around the idea of teaming them up with a Grand Master. Maybe they'll perform better.

One of the things that really infuriates me about them is the arbitrary restrictions on Ogryn. No priest bonus with a scanty fluff justification when they're about the only entry in the codex where you might actually want a priest? No ability to ride in a Valkyrie when a first turn Ogryn assault might actually justify their enormous point cost? Neither of those combinations is even remotely broken, even in combination... so why prohibit them?

It's even harder to justify their use when Grey Knight Terminators are so badassed for a similar point value and can fill up the same FOC slot.

Ugh, I'm ranting. Poor Ogryn.

I've used them too, and they have performed well in the context of the army as a whole, since I won those games. Don't underestimate their shooting also btw....Others have stuck a primaris psyker to make the unit in a chimera a good mobile short range firefight unit, which can strike back when the going gets up and personal.

Anpu42 wrote:Ok some one Mathhammer me.
I don't see how they are a bad CC Choice
WS-4 [Better than a IG]
BS- [Same as a IG]
S-5 [2-Better than a IG
T-5 [2-Better than a IG and Imune to Instant Death]
W-3 [3x Better than a IG]
I-2 [Low]
Save 5+ [Same as IG]
Ripper Gun: Range 12 Assualt Heavy Bolter with no Pen

Run the same numbers vs MEQs. Ogryn have no way to get around a 3+ armor save

Ivan wrote:Run the same numbers vs MEQs. Ogryn have no way to get around a 3+ armor save

Marines without Power Weapons have the same problem.