Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey Guys / Girls,

I'm new on 40k and would like to play with Dark Eldar. But before I buy all kinds of stuff I would like some advice from you.
I'm a member of a local warhammerclub and we want to play a tournament starting januari 2010.
It will be a 500 points tournament, with at least 1 HQ and 1 troop choice (so not 2 troops needed!).
For the first round there will be 3 games. This will be standard games, so i need an all-round army.
I can be playing against Necrons, Orcs, IG, Eldar, Tau, ect. (almost every army except demonhunters)
I already have done some reading about Dark Eldar, here and elsewhere on the internet and I'm already reading the rulesbook.
I also have a codex, but don't think it's the newest, because I read about Nightshield and other vehicel-upgrades, but can't find them in my codex.
That's actually my first question: Where can I find the newest rules for Dark Eldar?
Furthermore I need to have an armylist for the 500-points tournament. I'd hoped you could give me some suggestions.
We need to hand over our armylist at the start of the tournament and that will be our army for the entire tournament, so it needs to be differs. Maybe you could throw in some tactics too?
If you have any questions I'd like to read them.
Thank you in advance,

Forgithy

Umm first of all, the DE codex is old. They haven't had an update since 3rd edition (the current edition being 5th). While the 'dex IS compatible, it is essentially obsolete.
Second, if you are JUST starting, I wouldn't recommend you start with DE. DE and Eldar are THE most difficult armies to play and require the most tactical knowledge and the get-the-most-out-of-your-army-list skills. If you start a DE army, you WILL most likely be slaughtered and getting slaughtered every game you play is never fun. While a good opponent SHOULD give you advice if you are new, refer back to the first reason, the DE are obsolete at the moment.

If you are starting, start with Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, or Orks. Those are some of the most basic armies to play and don't punish you by losing you the game for a tactical error or a bad dice-roll. I would normally say go for Tyranids too, but a new codex comes out in January, and since you said you wanted your army done by then, that isn't enough time.

Just my 2 cents.

I think there may be multiple printings of the latest Dark Eldar codex. The first printing with green lettering for "Dark Eldar" on a spiky blade thing and the second printing with white lettering for "Dark Eldar" on an aquilla background.

I don't know much about Dark Eldar, but taking a Drachon, a Raider squad, a Warrior squad, and maybe a Talos or Wych squad or something should be a good start.

The DE codex had an update in like 2003, all they did was add vehicle upgrades and changed the rules for wyches. The codex has a "Second Edition" printed on the front. You can probably find it on ebay or from gw direct.

For 500 points i'd suggest wych cult. Bring 2 squads of wyches in raiders and a cheap dracite (don't bring a retinue) just put it in a squad. Bring 8 man squads with 2 blasters, grenades, wych weapons and a succubus in each with an agonizer and a trophy rack. You should have enough remaining for a dracite with some upgrades. The 2 raiders give you 2 darklances for anti tank and the squads have 4 blasters for anti tank. 2 squads of wyches can deal with any monstrous creatures pretty easy and can handle enemy assault units (especially with the help of the dracite)

Or he just shoudln't start playing with DE... as I said they are one of the most difficult armies to play...

After you have been playing for a while, I would say "go for it" but I have a strong feeling you will be dissapointed.

I'm not sure i agree with the statements about not starting DE. Even players with an excellent knowledge of 40k will have problems starting DE. It's like relearning the whole game. You will lose a lot at first, that's a given, but starting a marine army isn't going to help you learn how to play DE. You gotta play DE to learn DE so why not just go for it. You'll get the hang of it eventually and it's really not as hard as people make it out to be.

It's not necessarily the difficulty level, it's the outdated-ness of them that really kills me. :(

But yeah, fluff-wise it is a pretty cool army.

Ok, 500 pts of DE!

- Buy 1 Dracon model
- Buy 3 Raiders (their vehicles)
- Buy 1 box of wyches (its 10 models I think, I'm not sure.)
- buy 1 boxes of warriors
- Buy about 3 or so Dark eldar warriors w/ dark lances. Shredders come in the boxes of warriors

This should run you around $250 or so NIB.

Now, your list should look sort of like this;

1 dracon
- combat drugs
- punisher
- shadow field
-grenades
5x wyches
-wych weapons
- grenades
riding in a raider 240 or so pts

raider squad 118 pts
-6x warriors
-1x shredder, 1x dark lance

raider squad 126 pts
-7x warriors
-1x shredder, 1x dark lance

That should be right around 500 pts of dark eldar. You'll lay waste, very few armys at 500 can deal with 3 raiders!

Please note, as above people said, DE are a VERY hard army to play. They are very fragile and die quickly. That being said, they have awesome fluff and they are a blast to play!

Hey,

Thanks for the information and remarks so far.
I would like to react on DE being a difficult army to play with.
I already knew this, I also knew they are kind of outdated, but a new codex is coming.
Furthermore I like to play a more difficult army, so I realy need to use it to the max.
And I know I might get slaughterd the first times, but I want an army that is not easy playing and it isn't played by lots of others.
Also the most guys of my club don't know the rules yet, so this coming tournament will be a learning tournament for everybody.
My decision for DE will stand.
Thanks already!

I haven't heard anything about a new DE codex coming out anytime soon? Hell, they are making more SM variant codex's before DE.

Forgithy wrote:Hey,

Thanks for the information and remarks so far.
I would like to react on DE being a difficult army to play with.
I already knew this, I also knew they are kind of outdated, but a new codex is coming.
Furthermore I like to play a more difficult army, so I realy need to use it to the max.
And I know I might get slaughterd the first times, but I want an army that is not easy playing and it isn't played by lots of others.
Also the most guys of my club don't know the rules yet, so this coming tournament will be a learning tournament for everybody.
My decision for DE will stand.
Thanks already!

Very good, starting with Space Marines is a bad idea anyway as they make you too soft and you get too used to them.

I ALWAYS tell someone to play what they like. Telling others "Oh dont play them they suck" sucks. If you really like the DE then play the hell out of them. Youll enjoy playing an army you WANTED to play, poorly, then an army you didnt want to play, decently.
So go for it, sure they ARNT the best out there, but talk to some serious DE players, adn they can give you advice that will surprise the hell out of your opponents.

By all means, if DE are the only army you'd enjoy playing, play DE.

However, if you suspect you might enjoy something else... the DE models are supposedly being redone (so you may want to wait for the new models, which are supposed to be done by the guy who's arguably the best sculptor GW has), and the codex is supposed to change (maybe a year or so from now, if we're lucky and everything goes right). Personally, I'm waiting until then, and in the meantime have some daemons, and will have some 'nids soon... check out other races and see if something can occupy you until they come out.

If not, there are supposedly good lists flying around the web. (Not that I've ever seen anybody actually play DE, so I can't judge them.) As I understand it, there are CC-focused lists (wych cults) and lance-focused lists (warriors). Which were you thinking of?

Oh no.... I feel a massive post coming on....


Should I do the honors or do you want to Thor?

If you're new to the game, I'd hesitate to start with DE.
This army is unforgiving.
Wrong decisions during the battle will cost you the game.

That's actually my first question: Where can I find the newest rules for Dark Eldar?
Furthermore I need to have an armylist for the 500-points tournament. I'd hoped you could give me some suggestions.
We need to hand over our armylist at the start of the tournament and that will be our army for the entire tournament, so it needs to be differs. Maybe you could throw in some tactics too?
If you have any questions I'd like to read them.
Thank you in advance,

Like someone said above the new book has a fake stamp on it that says Second Edition, Now the problem with getting the newer one is that you will have to buy it directly from GW or from a private party on a site like ebay. (or you could use the interweb to steal it if you are down with that sort of thing)


Next I would have to say you picked a perfect army for small games. Nothing can beat dark eldar in 500 point games.

This is the best 500 Point list you can make for use in our current 40k environment:

500 Pts - Dark Eldar Roster

1 Haemonculi @ 40 pts (Destructor)

5 Raider Squad @ 110 pts (Blaster; Splinter Rifle x3; Splinter Cannon; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

5 Raider Squad @ 110 pts (Blaster; Splinter Rifle x3; Splinter Cannon; Raider)
1 Raider (Dark Lance)

1 Ravager @ 120 pts (Disentegrator x3)

1 Ravager @ 120 pts (Disentegrator x3)


Total Roster Cost: 500

The only thing that you might want to do is swap the Splinter cannons for Dark lances if your meta game is very high in tanks.


As for tactics its pretty strait forward. Avoid the opponent and blast the bajezus out of them. You should win by wipe out on turn 4-5, and your casualties should be only a raider or two.

Umm first of all, the DE codex is old. They haven't had an update since 3rd edition (the current edition being 5th). While the 'dex IS compatible, it is essentially obsolete.
Second, if you are JUST starting, I wouldn't recommend you start with DE. DE and Eldar are THE most difficult armies to play and require the most tactical knowledge and the get-the-most-out-of-your-army-list skills. If you start a DE army, you WILL most likely be slaughtered and getting slaughtered every game you play is never fun. While a good opponent SHOULD give you advice if you are new, refer back to the first reason, the DE are obsolete at the moment.

If you are starting, start with Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, or Orks. Those are some of the most basic armies to play and don't punish you by losing you the game for a tactical error or a bad dice-roll. I would normally say go for Tyranids too, but a new codex comes out in January, and since you said you wanted your army done by then, that isn't enough time.

This is ridiculous, First off the OP mentioned that he / she is in a wargaming club so the bit about tactical knowledge is mute. Second you should always start with an army you like, the game is about having fun not winning every game you play.

And third and most importantly you mention multiple times how DE are obsolete, yet I highly doubt you have played even one game against them in 5th ed. and would further wager that you played less than 2 games against them in 4th ed.

So in short kindly refrain from giving advice you know nothing about.

I think there may be multiple printings of the latest Dark Eldar codex. The first printing with green lettering for "Dark Eldar" on a spiky blade thing and the second printing with white lettering for "Dark Eldar" on an aquilla background.

I don't know much about Dark Eldar, but taking a Drachon, a Raider squad, a Warrior squad, and maybe a Talos or Wych squad or something should be a good start.

Correct on point one. There are two printings of the DE codex.

As for point two all of those options are good at 1000pt or higher, but in lower games you need to run a very streamlined list.

For 500 points i'd suggest wych cult. Bring 2 squads of wyches in raiders and a cheap dracite (don't bring a retinue) just put it in a squad. Bring 8 man squads with 2 blasters, grenades, wych weapons and a succubus in each with an agonizer and a trophy rack. You should have enough remaining for a dracite with some upgrades. The 2 raiders give you 2 darklances for anti tank and the squads have 4 blasters for anti tank. 2 squads of wyches can deal with any monstrous creatures pretty easy and can handle enemy assault units (especially with the help of the dracite)

Wyche cult is terrible in 500 points, but it begins to shine around 1000-1750. And lets face it who wants to play there first 40k games with one model that can kill things and 2 tarpit squads.

I'm not sure i agree with the statements about not starting DE. Even players with an excellent knowledge of 40k will have problems starting DE. It's like relearning the whole game. You will lose a lot at first, that's a given, but starting a marine army isn't going to help you learn how to play DE. You gotta play DE to learn DE so why not just go for it. You'll get the hang of it eventually and it's really not as hard as people make it out to be.

Hey! You with the intelligent comment! What do you think you are doing? Is this anyway to treat a new play?

Ok, 500 pts of DE!

- Buy 1 Dracon model
- Buy 3 Raiders (their vehicles)
- Buy 1 box of wyches (its 10 models I think, I'm not sure.)
- buy 1 boxes of warriors
- Buy about 3 or so Dark eldar warriors w/ dark lances. Shredders come in the boxes of warriors

This should run you around $250 or so NIB.

First off don't do this.... second warrior boxes do not come with shredders, nor will you need them.

Now, your list should look sort of like this;

1 dracon
- combat drugs
- punisher
- shadow field
-grenades

In 500 points this one model is eating up over 1/5 of your entire list. Its also missing a tormentor helm. At 750 its a valid option but in 500 its to expensive for what it does.

5x wyches
-wych weapons
- grenades
riding in a raider 240 or so pts

Far to expensive for a unit that can't kill any other combat specalist in the game. When ever you take wyches you always take a succubus with an agoniser, she is the only one that kills things the rest dance around for 3-4 turns.

raider squad 118 pts
-6x warriors
-1x shredder, 1x dark lance

raider squad 126 pts
-7x warriors
-1x shredder, 1x dark lance

Never take more than 5 warriors in a raider, the rest are only a waste of points. Next never take shredder, a blaster is cheaper and more effective in 90% of situations. Moreover why take a shredder with a darklance?

That should be right around 500 pts of dark eldar. You'll lay waste, very few armys at 500 can deal with 3 raiders!

Or you could run the list I posted with 2 raiders and 2 ravagers.

Please note, as above people said, DE are a VERY hard army to play. They are very fragile and die quickly. That being said, they have awesome fluff and they are a blast to play!

They are not a very hard army to play, they are a very DIFFERENT army.

Hey,

Thanks for the information and remarks so far.
I would like to react on DE being a difficult army to play with.
I already knew this, I also knew they are kind of outdated, but a new codex is coming.
Furthermore I like to play a more difficult army, so I realy need to use it to the max.
And I know I might get slaughterd the first times, but I want an army that is not easy playing and it isn't played by lots of others.
Also the most guys of my club don't know the rules yet, so this coming tournament will be a learning tournament for everybody.
My decision for DE will stand.
Thanks already!

Good for you!

I haven't heard anything about a new DE codex coming out anytime soon? Hell, they are making more SM variant codex's before DE.

Best case scenario is winter of 2010, most likely release is sometime in 2011.

I ALWAYS tell someone to play what they like. Telling others "Oh dont play them they suck" sucks. If you really like the DE then play the hell out of them. Youll enjoy playing an army you WANTED to play, poorly, then an army you didnt want to play, decently.
So go for it, sure they ARNT the best out there, but talk to some serious DE players, adn they can give you advice that will surprise the hell out of your opponents.

I agree with everything but that cheap shot about them not being the best!

By all means, if DE are the only army you'd enjoy playing, play DE.

However, if you suspect you might enjoy something else... the DE models are supposedly being redone (so you may want to wait for the new models, which are supposed to be done by the guy who's arguably the best sculptor GW has), and the codex is supposed to change (maybe a year or so from now, if we're lucky and everything goes right). Personally, I'm waiting until then, and in the meantime have some daemons, and will have some 'nids soon... check out other races and see if something can occupy you until they come out.

If not, there are supposedly good lists flying around the web. (Not that I've ever seen anybody actually play DE, so I can't judge them.) As I understand it, there are CC-focused lists (wych cults) and lance-focused lists (warriors). Which were you thinking of?

As I mentioned in many previous posts, if you want to start DE there is not time like the present. Its going to be years before we get our new codex.

Dark Eldar are quite a awesome force I say go for it. Now do you want to start a Kabal force or a Wych Cult? They both have very different playing styles but are equally good. Kabal to me seems the most "balanced" due to the awesomeness know as warriors with dark lances. As for a new codex even though we hope it comes out next year doesn't help we been hearing that for what 5 years now.

Oh you DE players.
Dat waznt a cheap shot, Iz felt bad aboot youz boyz not gettin yer du creditz. We all knowz da Boyz iz da bestest

Seriously that wasnt meant as a cheap shot, they really arnt the best. Infact if argued with the right players, you can kind of prove that none of the armies really are the best. It really depends on how you play your army, blah blah blah we've all heard this one before

Cracker (not a racial slur...) I was just informed that sarcasm does not work well on the interwebz. So FYI I was joking

Besides everyone know 40k is a 2 hour game of rock, paper, scissors.

Clthomps has an excellent starter list. As mentioned, DE can be brutal, especially at lower-point games. Once you start getting above 1750-1850 range, they start losing efficiency, as all their best value slots are filled as you start taking sub-optimal choices.

I once believed DE was a poor beginner army because of its unforgiving nature, but I've since come to the conclusion that the biggest problem is new DE players have crappy lists because they want to experiment with units that veterans know are crap. What opened my eyes to this was watching my 11 year old son play with them in a 1750 point local tourney. He's played marines for about a year, and wanted to try something else. I played a few practice games against him the day before the tourney, and he ended up taking second place, winning all three of his games while tabling 1 (or 2?) opponents. He would have won completely, but he still has trouble prioritizing grabbing/clearing objectives vs. just killing stuff.

They have the firepower to brutalize the current trend toward mech, the mobility to capture/contest objectives, and the flexibility to be firepower or melee based. The only real issue is the age of the codex means only a few units are viable, so there isn't a lot of variety in competitive builds.

Mr Clthomps, myself, and Thor(who has yet to chime in) are, as far as I know, the only practicing Dark Eldar players on this board. A lot of people on the net like to pass themselves off as knowledgeable, but take what they say with a pinch of salt.

I agree with pretty much everything Clthomps has said up there. The only difference I would personally make to the list he has laid out above there is changing one of the Ravagers to being equipped with 1 Dark Lance and 2 Disentegrators(also known as the Vect build), to help combat multiple war walker and kan units. But that's a personal choice.

There's no guarantee of a new codex anythime in the future, but we us few remaining Archons live in hope.

Dark Eldar are extremely difficult to master, especially if they're your starting army, but you'll find if you can master them, the world is your oyster, as any army after that is a piece of cake.

Well, I played DE army a lot during the 3rd and 4th ed.
And I won one RTT with it, most of the time I had 2nd and 3rd places.
At the moment my army hits the shelf.

We have a regular player who uses DE to rip the heart out of all the oponants who think they are going to get an easy victory against a 'hopelessly outdated' codex! Sure some of the wargear doesn't work, but that's the same for most older books. Blasters and dark lances are your friends, added to raiders and ravagers to keep your fragile infantry on the move

Thanx you guys, you've been really helpfull.

Clthomps wrote:

Jsullivanlaw wrote:
For 500 points i'd suggest wych cult. Bring 2 squads of wyches in raiders and a cheap dracite (don't bring a retinue) just put it in a squad. Bring 8 man squads with 2 blasters, grenades, wych weapons and a succubus in each with an agonizer and a trophy rack. You should have enough remaining for a dracite with some upgrades. The 2 raiders give you 2 darklances for anti tank and the squads have 4 blasters for anti tank. 2 squads of wyches can deal with any monstrous creatures pretty easy and can handle enemy assault units (especially with the help of the dracite)

Wyche cult is terrible in 500 points, but it begins to shine around 1000-1750. And lets face it who wants to play there first 40k games with one model that can kill things and 2 tarpit squads.

Why is it that wych cult is terrible in small point games? In a 500 point game you generally have to worry less about holding an objective since it is so easy to table an opponent. With a small wych cult you've got a couple assault units that can double as troops if need be. The enemy shouldn't have an enormous amount of anti tank at 500 points so with smart use of raiders you should be able to make assault. I like wyches because they have the tools to deal with anything that shows up in a 500 point game, which is essentially rock paper scissors. Add the dracite to a squad and that squad becomes pretty killy. I have kinda felt that wych cult is better in smaller point games with kabal better in big point games since you have access to more units.

Jsullivanlaw wrote:
I'm not sure i agree with the statements about not starting DE. Even players with an excellent knowledge of 40k will have problems starting DE. It's like relearning the whole game. You will lose a lot at first, that's a given, but starting a marine army isn't going to help you learn how to play DE. You gotta play DE to learn DE so why not just go for it. You'll get the hang of it eventually and it's really not as hard as people make it out to be.

Clthomps wrote:
Hey! You with the intelligent comment! What do you think you are doing? Is this anyway to treat a new play?

Thanks!

The Problem with wyches is that they are so expensive. Look at the other list posted, it has one dracon and a squad of wyches for the same cost as 2 Ravagers.



Now tell me what you would rather have? 6 Plasma cannons spread out on 2 av 11 fast skimmers or 1 Squad of bare wyches and a killy HQ.


The reason that wyche cults lack in under 1000pts is the fact that to fill up your troop requirements you have to eat up the points that should be going to max out your Hvy selections.

The minimum amount of points you have to spend for a wyche cult is:

1 Dracon 35
10 Wyches 120

Now you are never going to play a dracon without a power weapon and shadow field at the very least so add 50 point

The wyches are junk without plasma grenades, wyche weapons and a succubus with an agoniser. So there is another 80 points

Now they still suck unless you can get them in to combat, so rack up another 110 for raiders


Total: 395

And that just to fill up basic FO.


For a Kabal you can get:

1 Haemon 35 (40 with destructor)
10 warriors (80, or 100 with 2 DL)
2 raiders (110

Total: 260



So as you can see it makes a world of difference. Now instead of taking no Ravagers you can squeeze in two with the kabal.

Clthomps,

I just want to say thank you very much for convincing me that Dark Eldar is the army for me. I've been play WFB for about a year or so now and a couple of my friends want to get our group to play 40k a bit too. I've been thinking of starting Dark Eldar, because the fluff is so cool and I like the look of the models. I was waffling though because of the perception of the age of the codex and it sounding so outdated.

Now, to ebay I go!

Ketara wrote:Mr Clthomps, myself, and Thor(who has yet to chime in) are, as far as I know, the only practicing Dark Eldar players on this board. A lot of people on the net like to pass themselves off as knowledgeable, but take what they say with a pinch of salt.

I agree with pretty much everything Clthomps has said up there. The only difference I would personally make to the list he has laid out above there is changing one of the Ravagers to being equipped with 1 Dark Lance and 2 Disentegrators(also known as the Vect build), to help combat multiple war walker and kan units. But that's a personal choice.

There's no guarantee of a new codex anythime in the future, but we us few remaining Archons live in hope.

Dark Eldar are extremely difficult to master, especially if they're your starting army, but you'll find if you can master them, the world is your oyster, as any army after that is a piece of cake.

I take it you mean 'dark eldar players with lots of experience', then. Well, at least I know who to bug for advice, now.

<-- started learning on DE 2 years ago. Still only has one army. Is finally getting the knack of them.

The new DE codex came out on GW if you haven't heard already... (it's for 5th ed rules but its only a 4th ed codex)

New record for thread necromancy?