Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The C&D letters GW has been sending out to fan sites have been discussed here in several threads, so I won't repeat any of that. However, the topic came up tonight in the live show of 40k radio. Everyone's talking about this, but it's dispersed among countless forums. So, the idea was advanced that we could use a hash tag when discussing it, at least in twitter, to try and tie all the threads together. So, basically we want to organize the resistance by placing #GWattacksGamers in any tweets involving GW anti-fansite activity, then all of those tweets can be found by clicking on the hash tag, giving us a better sense of the size of the outcry and presenting a unified front. That's the plan at least.

IP infringement is like squatting. Leave them alone long enough and they start thinking they have the right to it.

I don't blame GW in what they are doing. They have to protect there IP or it becomes murky and we all could lose much more than some fansites.

GW has been lax in protecting IP, they are just trying to play catch up now, don't hate them for protecting the IP which we all love.

Screw that, they take the actions, people can think what they like about them.
IP protection, because you can or need, gives you no right to treat fans like garbage. Ok you do have the right, but the fans have the right to slap you back. HARD.

Boycott for me is going just fine and a pm sent to you Specs.

This isnt really a topic for discussion is it?

OP IS going to use Twitter.

Are we going to see a side-jacked thread?

No sir, i'll behave.

Oh, god......

As the Orks say, 'Ere we go again boyz!'

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:I don't blame GW in what they are doing. They have to protect there IP or it becomes murky and we all could lose much more than some fansites.

GW has been lax in protecting IP, they are just trying to play catch up now, don't hate them for protecting the IP which we all love.

Protecting legitimate trademarks and actual copyrighted works I can understand. This came about because of the news that they were going after http://www.librarium-online.com/ because their logo looked too much like the Imperium's Aquila. Librarium Online's logo doesn't look anything like GW's aquila and the aquila itself has been used as a symbol by the romans and germans for centuries. GW is casting their net too wide, that's what's got me uneasy.

I heard people at the hobby store saying that Dakka is very anti GW in general.

G

That's us telt then.

Specs wrote:

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:I don't blame GW in what they are doing. They have to protect there IP or it becomes murky and we all could lose much more than some fansites.

GW has been lax in protecting IP, they are just trying to play catch up now, don't hate them for protecting the IP which we all love.

Protecting legitimate trademarks and actual copyrighted works I can understand. This came about because of the news that they were going after http://www.librarium-online.com/ because their logo looked too much like the Imperium's Aquila. Librarium Online's logo doesn't look anything like GW's aquila and the aquila itself has been used as a symbol by the romans and germans for centuries. GW is casting their net too wide, that's what's got me uneasy.

For the ones that came in late:
Librarium Online's logo was changed after the C&D, the original used GW's Aquila. Not a generic double-headed eagle but a straight copy of GW's icon. They also sold t-shirts with the same logo, ie. making money off GW's design.

meh, GW can send all the C&D letters it wants to. it doesn't directly effect me, and so, I could care less.

Specs wrote:The C&D letters GW has been sending out to fan sites have been discussed here in several threads, so I won't repeat any of that. However, the topic came up tonight in the live show of 40k radio. Everyone's talking about this, but it's dispersed among countless forums. So, the idea was advanced that we could use a hash tag when discussing it, at least in twitter, to try and tie all the threads together. So, basically we want to organize the resistance by placing #GWattacksGamers in any tweets involving GW anti-fansite activity, then all of those tweets can be found by clicking on the hash tag, giving us a better sense of the size of the outcry and presenting a unified front. That's the plan at least.

Honestly...

This thred is misrepresentive, The title leads one to think that Twitter got a C and D from GW.

Personally I've looked into this issue a little deeper then most, even sought an opinion or two from some who work with this sort of thing. Its a mountain out of a mole-hill that is getting more attention then it deserves. GW's practices seem heartess, but in the long run, they are going to end up paying for thier heavy handed approach.

I'm on the fence about this issue, but GW being stupid about thier so called, "IP" makes me throw up just a little when you remember that thier company was built on exactly what they are crucifying the little guy over.

When they start stepping up the game and coming our way, I know full well what I'm going to do about it...

As for being anti GW, look at those sort of tactics over a fan site, and tell me that that deserves my good graces.

Green Blow Fly wrote:I heard people at the hobby store saying that Dakka is very anti GW in general.

G

Compared to Warseer and BOLs it seems to be. Not sure how Warseer ever got the title of "whineseer" but I suppose its harder to make a name based on dakka dakka.

Cane wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:I heard people at the hobby store saying that Dakka is very anti GW in general.

G

Compared to Warseer and BOLs it seems to be. Not sure how Warseer ever got the title of "whineseer" but I suppose its harder to make a name based on dakka dakka.

Trust me. It's deserved. I quit going to the site a couple of years ago. If you posted something neutral, you got labled a "fanboy", if you actually said something positive about GW, you got attacked as "a GW zombie" "obviously working for GW" "an apologist", etc etc. Lots of "I wish GW would just Die" threads going on at the time.

In the end, it wasn't worth sifting the cesspool for the nuggets of wisdom.

mikhaila wrote:

Cane wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:I heard people at the hobby store saying that Dakka is very anti GW in general.

G

Compared to Warseer and BOLs it seems to be. Not sure how Warseer ever got the title of "whineseer" but I suppose its harder to make a name based on dakka dakka.

Trust me. It's deserved. I quit going to the site a couple of years ago. If you posted something neutral, you got labled a "fanboy", if you actually said something positive about GW, you got attacked as "a GW zombie" "obviously working for GW" "an apologist", etc etc. Lots of "I wish GW would just Die" threads going on at the time.

In the end, it wasn't worth sifting the cesspool for the nuggets of wisdom.

I like how people like to say "I wish GW would just DIE." If GW died, they would then go "NOOOO GW COME BAAAAAACKK." It's just people complaining for attention. GW has a right to protect IP, and whether or not you guys think they are "slapping you in the face" is what want to think.

I hate being thought of as "anti-GW".... makes me feel like a hypocrite...

I don't want them to die, either. That's why I bitch when they do stupid things like piss off, ignore, or even attack their fanbase.

mikhaila wrote:

Cane wrote:

Green Blow Fly wrote:I heard people at the hobby store saying that Dakka is very anti GW in general.

G

Compared to Warseer and BOLs it seems to be. Not sure how Warseer ever got the title of "whineseer" but I suppose its harder to make a name based on dakka dakka.

Trust me. It's deserved. I quit going to the site a couple of years ago. If you posted something neutral, you got labled a "fanboy", if you actually said something positive about GW, you got attacked as "a GW zombie" "obviously working for GW" "an apologist", etc etc. Lots of "I wish GW would just Die" threads going on at the time.

In the end, it wasn't worth sifting the cesspool for the nuggets of wisdom.

Hmm, sounds like what goes on here. If you stick up for GW you are a fanboi and apologist, if you say something bad you are labeled a whiner/hater. How is it okay here on Dakka but not on Warseer?

Because here the mods crack down on it and lock the thread or give out warnings.

On WS--the mods sometimes are the ones doing it

Joyous_Oblivion wrote:I don't blame GW in what they are doing. They have to protect there IP or it becomes murky and we all could lose much more than some fansites.

GW has been lax in protecting IP, they are just trying to play catch up now, don't hate them for protecting the IP which we all love.

Please explain to me how, say, a turn-sequence summary for Space Hulk is IP infringement.

I'm dying to hear this one.

Because the fact that they had actual, full summaries of games resulted in a blanket request for removal of material.

Kanluwen wrote:Because the fact that they had actual, full summaries of games resulted in a blanket request for removal of material.

No, it resulted in lawyers demanding a blanket request for removal because the paralegal was too lazy to go in and actually look for specific material that warranted being removed.

Frankly the full games that they had up are stuff that was either already freely available through GW (Mordheim, for example) or stuff that is now and ever shall be out of print (Manowar.)

It's GW swingin' their dick.

Uh, actually it was BGG that removed everything.

GW said "offending material".
But sure. Keep believing it was just some massive GW conspiracy and laziness.

And, once again--
Out of print or freely available through GW does not mean that anyone else can post it, unless GW gives them permission to do it. Especially given that at times the posted material is something that GW had licensed or the creators left the company.

Sidstyler wrote:I don't want them to die, either. That's why I bitch when they do stupid things like piss off, ignore, or even attack their fanbase.

Warhammer Fantasy/40K has enough of a fanbase that if GW did die, I'm sure there would be a smart company that would capitalize on that fanbase and buy the rights to the games and such and continue the life of the game. Perhaps a company that would be a little more appreciative of their customers. Take for example the game Heroscape. All of the rules for the game and for all the models can be found on either Heroscape.com or their parent company's website Hasbro.com. (They even have the rules for the long OOP Hero Quest game.) In addition, the fansite Heroscapers.com is one of the largest Heroscape fansites for the game and the staff of the Heroscape game regularly post on the forums of Heroscapers.com about upcoming releases and to get feedback about the game. Heck, a link to Heroscapers.com is even listed on the main Heroscape website. So if they have got one thing right, it is acknowledging that their game would be nothing without it's customers/fans and instead of alienating the fans they embrace them.

Kanluwen wrote:Uh, actually it was BGG that removed everything.

GW said "offending material".
But sure. Keep believing it was just some massive GW conspiracy and laziness.

Without any refinement on that phrase, they have to assume that GW doesn't give a feth about fair use and will sue them over anything even tangentially related to their IP, so they have to yank everything. This is intentional.

Out of print or freely available through GW does not mean that anyone else can post it, unless GW gives them permission to do it.

No, but it does make them giant, runny, syphilitic phalluses for demanding that BGG remove it.

I guarantee you, no one is going to go out and make a bundle off Manowar because GW didn't vigorously defend its copyright on it. GW knows this. Given that, it's incredibly foolish for GW to spend the time and money on giving a goddamn.

Except for the fact that all of the licenses for the original material are now handed over to FFG--which seems hellbent on remaking a lot of the older games.

So it's a preemptive strike to clear the grounds and remove the old and ensure there's no option but buying FFG's version.

Lord_Mortis wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I don't want them to die, either. That's why I bitch when they do stupid things like piss off, ignore, or even attack their fanbase.

Warhammer Fantasy/40K has enough of a fanbase that if GW did die, I'm sure there would be a smart company that would capitalize on that fanbase and buy the rights to the games and such and continue the life of the game. Perhaps a company that would be a little more appreciative of their customers. Take for example the game Heroscape. All of the rules for the game and for all the models can be found on either Heroscape.com or their parent company's website Hasbro.com. (They even have the rules for the long OOP Hero Quest game.) In addition, the fansite Heroscapers.com is one of the largest Heroscape fansites for the game and the staff of the Heroscape game regularly post on the forums of Heroscapers.com about upcoming releases and to get feedback about the game. Heck, a link to Heroscapers.com is even listed on the main Heroscape website. So if they have got one thing right, it is acknowledging that their game would be nothing without it's customers/fans and instead of alienating the fans they embrace them.

Perhaps GW should follow this example.
As I've said before,it's not GWs "protection" of it's IP that gets under my skin,it's the "sterile" corporation deriction they seem to be heading in,I recall a time when GW was a company that seemed to be concerned with their fans/customers,now for the most part it seems that cash is king and the "bottom line" is more important than the customer.

It was never about the rights of a company to protect it's IP, which just so happens to be fluff that I have loved for almost 25 years now.

It's about how they did it, it's about inept and bullish behaviour from a company towards it's own fanbase. It's about a company that openly talks about price elasticity and the willingness of it's customers to take abuse.

They have no respect for us, they are interested in the new player, recruited at a young age.

As I have stated in other posts, they could have reached accord with ALL of those sites in a far less hostile way, they chose the easy and aggressive path. They will find it the path of most resistance.

FITZZ wrote: Perhaps GW should follow this example.
As I've said before,it's not GWs "protection" of it's IP that gets under my skin,it's the "sterile" corporation deriction they seem to be heading in,I recall a time when GW was a company that seemed to be concerned with their fans/customers,now for the most part it seems that cash is king and the "bottom line" is more important than the customer.

GW doesn't want Fans, only customers.

Customers start with a heavy buy in, play for a while and leave. Fans stick around and notice inconsistencies and make demands. Fans are only okay if they buy things and shut up.

FITZZ wrote:

Lord_Mortis wrote:

Sidstyler wrote:I don't want them to die, either. That's why I bitch when they do stupid things like piss off, ignore, or even attack their fanbase.

Warhammer Fantasy/40K has enough of a fanbase that if GW did die, I'm sure there would be a smart company that would capitalize on that fanbase and buy the rights to the games and such and continue the life of the game. Perhaps a company that would be a little more appreciative of their customers. Take for example the game Heroscape. All of the rules for the game and for all the models can be found on either Heroscape.com or their parent company's website Hasbro.com. (They even have the rules for the long OOP Hero Quest game.) In addition, the fansite Heroscapers.com is one of the largest Heroscape fansites for the game and the staff of the Heroscape game regularly post on the forums of Heroscapers.com about upcoming releases and to get feedback about the game. Heck, a link to Heroscapers.com is even listed on the main Heroscape website. So if they have got one thing right, it is acknowledging that their game would be nothing without it's customers/fans and instead of alienating the fans they embrace them.

Perhaps GW should follow this example.
As I've said before,it's not GWs "protection" of it's IP that gets under my skin,it's the "sterile" corporation deriction they seem to be heading in,I recall a time when GW was a company that seemed to be concerned with their fans/customers,now for the most part it seems that cash is king and the "bottom line" is more important than the customer.

I agree completely, fallowing this type of template would seriously reduce the hate that some fans justifiably have for GW, it would definately effect my view of GW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:It was never about the rights of a company to protect it's IP, which just so happens to be fluff that I have loved for almost 25 years now.

It's about how they did it, it's about inept and bullish behaviour from a company towards it's own fanbase. It's about a company that openly talks about price elasticity and the willingness of it's customers to take abuse.

They have no respect for us, they are interested in the new player, recruited at a young age.

As I have stated in other posts, they could have reached accord with ALL of those sites in a far less hostile way, they chose the easy and aggressive path. They will find it the path of most resistance.

Absofragginlutely, 10 for 10 there MGS. thats the heart of it.
The IP issue isnt even a factor anymore. the rights of the company dont come into it anymore. its what they have done to the fans and fan sites thats the issue here.

FYI: yesterday i started recruiting locals to the boycott, directing them to twitter, my hope is i can get at least 25 locals to boycott and from the talks its looking good. (mind its not all full boycott, some want to join in a limited way ie: yes i'll do it, but i want to buy the SW termie box first.... type thing.) weve planned for the end to be feb the 1st.)