Thinking of starting up Hordes (probably trollbloods), a few questions

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**Fafnir**

I know there's a topic right below mine, but I have a few different questions, and I don't want to take away from that OP's questions. Likewise, I have some different ones to ask.

The friend I play 40k with is starting to get really fed up with 5th ed (and I can see why... he plays Necrons), and I don't really have much attachment to the system as a game so much as a modelling/socializing kind of thing. So I have no problem trying a new system. Especially when Hordes looks a whole lot more entertaining and well written. Not to mention that PP looks like it actually listens to its consumers.

First, after the starter box, what are some good models to buy? I want to get eDoomshaper, since I think the model looks beautiful, but I want to still have a (small) list where the contents of the starter box are still useful.

Likewise, say I have eDoomshaper, could I use him as pDoomshaper? Because I can see some different uses for both characters, and I don't want to have to get both models, especially when eDoomshaper looks so much better.

Lastly, what would be a good way to expand from a Doomshaper (either version) and the starter box? I plan on just starting with those two items, and building off of that.

**malfred**

Fafnir wrote:
First, after the starter box, what are some good models to buy? I want to get eDoomshaper, since I think the model looks beautiful, but I want to still have a (small) list where the contents of the starter box are still useful.

For Hoarluk I'm thinking you can't go wrong with Bouncer and Mauler. Or maybe if you're
thinking of using those Impalers you'd also include a Blitzer or Pyre Troll. I haven't figured
out all of eHoarluk yet.

Whelps help you manage your trolls.

Kriel Warriors or Champions can help round out the list (infantry unit)

Likewise, say I have eDoomshaper, could I use him as pDoomshaper? Because I can see some different uses for both characters, and I don't want to have to get both models, especially when eDoomshaper looks so much better.

Most Press Gangers and players I know allow an either/or proxy, but the exception would
be at national events such as the one in GenCon. I'm not sure if the rules are as strict
at Templecon in Rhode Island or Adepticon in Chicago next year.

**malfred**

Check out this post on their forums:

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?t=1288

Alright so with the release of the Mk II rules there have been 2 casters I have focused on. Borka and eDoomy. I will not be comparing them to heavily to Mk I but instead focus on my thoughts and tactics that I have had success with in Mk II. With all that said let's get started

eDoomy

Stats and what they mean to you
SPD Average for a Troll. He isn't winning any leg races
STR Nothing to write about here. He isn't a beat stick
MAT If your in Melee your desperate and most likely hoping to get Dominator off
RAT Pointless. Might as well be 0. He has no ranged attacks
DEF He is as frail as they come. Sadly he's 1 higher than a lot of our units but no other cast is being hit as easily(except Xerxis who is a beatstick)
ARM Ha. Your being hit, your dying. Sevy has less Arm but can camp focus and has better defense
CMD Average. Nothing good. Luckily most of our units is an 8
FUR Fury 7. Really hoping for an 8 but he does well with what he gets
Warbeast Points Good solid number. Wanted more but no dice

Special Abilities and Weapon
Tough Who didn't see this one coming?
Attuned Spirit Very helpful ability. Lets you cast a friendly animus for free each turn. Use it. love it. Should be noted this will most likely be ammended to only be Friendly Dire Trolls and it's how I use it
Goad Sounds great, but it's alright at best. Would be better if you could force eDoomy and the beast could advance but that's not how it works. Mulg gets use out of this because he normally wipe out an opposing heavy and actually get to use Goad
Hyper Regeneration Auto heals are good. If your taking damage, it's not good. This hasn't done me any good in any games but something is better than nothing
Gnarlroot Low PoW + reach + Slow old man = bad things. has Dominator which sounds great until you combine his low Mat with the low PoW and you realize you aren't damaging most beast without boosting...and your not hitting a lot without boosting.

Spells
Agitation Fury intensive spell that can really disrupt your opponents plan on leaching. I've had sucess with this spell against Legion popcorn list and Circle list. Skorne is 50/50 depending on list setup.
Primal Shock An Arc'd spell, basically, that should be PoW 12 if Using Dire Trolls and PoW 9 with any lights. Great for hiting Solos are incoperal models because it's a Magical Attack
Refuge Very handy. Makes our army a bit faster. No Freestrikes is a bonus but our base sizes makes a little harder to manouver around tightly packed units.
Sunder Spirit While damaging an enemy model, key here is it has to damage it, the Model looses it's animus and you get it for a turn. I've used Baying of Chaos the same turn I used Agitation. Risky with my 7" Command but it was well worth it
Wild Aggression If you don't have this spell up from the word go, slap yourself. This is an amazing spell and goes on a Dire in a heart beat. Free charge/power attacks AND Boosted attack rolls? YES PLEASE!!

So with our 7 fury we have a lot going on. We should have both upkeeps going which only leaves us 5 to toss around. Normally that leaves you with the choice to toss out Primal Shock or Agitation depending on what's going down. I try to leave 1-2 fury just in case

FEAT
Saved the best, maybe, for last
The most IMPORTANT thing to remember is, this only effects Warbeast. Free charges/powerattacks is great. +3" Movement is awesomesauce on top. Toss rush in there and all of a sudden it's even better charges.
A Dire is going 8" Normally. With Rush he's going 10". With Feat and Rush it's 13"
Now look at Mulg. 9"(Reach) normally. 11" Rush. 14" With Feat + Rush. Not as fast as it used to be, but still solid

Army Options and fun combos
Alright so let's review. eDoomy likes beast. That's really all he buffs. He needs and loves beast. Heavy beast he makes better, and more worth there points, but lets not look past all the lights or infantry either. Sooo general overview of our beast with eDoomy
-Pyre Troll is a good alround beast that also brings some Anti-Infantry that Doomy is lacking. Pretty good choice
-Slag Troll helps against enemy Jacks and Constructs. He Ranged attack is medium ranged like the Pyre but can shoot twice. Havne't ran him with Doomy as I find my Dires do just fine against Beast/Jacks
-Axer. Rush Rush Rush. What's that? Rush. His Animus alone is Golden for eDoomy. Toss in Thresher + Reach and he can help deal with infantry. Solid choice, in my book, over Pyre
-Bouncer The Premier body guard for us via Beast. His Animus helps keep Models alive, models like say Doomy, but I haven't found him as helpful as I need. I normally run very aggressively and I either trash my opponent or get killed. No middle ground of Attrition for me. I've ran him but found taking another Beast with more Melee potential, read threat, helps me more
-Impaler Never used him. I don't go shooty, I go bashy. If you do use them with him I'd love to hear your thoughts
-Winter Troll One of my favorite, and most hated, Opera singing models in Mk I. I've tried him but find his point cost is a bit much. Freezer does help stop people from tying up my heavies with Infantry because my Axer waxes off anything that is Stationary.
-Blitzer Once again I don't go for Shooty. From what I read he would do well. Repulsion seems like it would also be good to keep enemies from Tying up your heavies but I have no in game practice with them to really comment
-Dire Troll Yep. He's a Dire. Good Animus. A monster with Wild Aggression on. Grab & Smash helps me fling open Charge lanes for other models of mine. In every eDoomy list
-Earthborn I don't care for him in Mk II. Others do. I will be running him tonight and will update this later. Him gaining Pathfinder is very nice and I see the potential
-Mulg the Ancient Leaving his Point cost out of this, let me say that I have ran him in every eDoomy list and not regretted it once. He draws a lot of fire power and will smoke anything tossed in front of him. I toss Refuge on him and shove him down my opponents throat asap. AYGTET I have barely been able to use. When I have it's because a Pyre to killed some cheap infantry to trigger this.
Don't forget if something does live Mulg you get a attack with Doomy

What about infantry? The only ones I have used has been the cheap, and effective, Kriel Warriors for bodies on the table and Guarding Doomy. They have done there job well
On. And the THUMPER has held up well for me. Some games it's useless but other times it has really made the game for me. Kept opposing heavies out of the game and even got the odd bowling hit off. Really dig it with Doomy

Sample Army Setup
eDoomy
-Mulg(5)
-Dire(9)
-Axer(6)
That's normally my core. 20pts right there, and depending on what point lvl I'm at, that is easy to expand on.
If at 25pts I can toss in KW + caber or a Bouncer. More Bodies help protect
Often times go with Thumper + Whelps though, A little more aggressive. Thumper is real hit or miss, literally, at this point lvl.

If going to 35pts normally tossing in another Dire + axer if I want more beast or I toss in a Pyre/Axer and Infantry to get some bulk to my army. Stuff in Kriel Warriors to get my numbers up and tie up opposing infantry tar pits.

Overall Thoughts
I really like eDoomy and I have had plenty of success vs both Warmachine and Hordes. 12 Games total now
Against Warmachine I got 7 games in. I'm 5 and 2
Against Hordes I got in 5 games and I'm 5 and 0

Solid caster with good threat potential.
You WILL be outnumbered.
You MUST plan out your moves or you will get bogged down. Get bogged down your dead.
You don't normally have the bodies, hence why I started to add KW, to deal with your heavies getting tied up.
Charge early and often.

You HAVE to take chances. Use all of your abilities. A mix of the Thumper and Grab and Smash SHOULD open up charge lanes. If Not Trample Mulg into the opposing caster. Take that free whack at him.

I would love any additional thoughts by anyone else and will update it as I can

**Fafnir**

So, would I be better off just buying some pieces individually, or getting the starter box? I love the Doomshaper, Axer, and Mauler models, and even though I love the impaler, if they're not very good for Doomy, would it be worth avoiding the set?

**George Spiggott**

If you want to run Dire Trolls and Doomshaper then you won't need the battlebox. You can always pick it up later when you want an Axer or some of the other stuff from it.

Axer's aren't as critical as they were in MkI as terrain doesn't stop charges as much as it used to in MkI.

Doomshaper (either both are +6 beast points), Mulg and a Blitzer is 14 points so you can play that against other starter boxes or in 15 point games.

Any combination of the dire Troll models will work in the above list.

When you start playing 25+ point games you can fill in with units that fill your tactical weaknesses, low model count, no speedbumps and no shooting.

**Fafnir**

Well, I plan on getting an axer anyway, since I love the model regardless.

Doomshaper, a Mauler, and an Axer is only a little more expensive then the box sets, and costs 9 points, which is just 1-2 points lower then the starters. Would that work decently?

**George Spiggott**

With only three models it would be a unforgiving and inflexible but it can be played. 9 points is an awfully small game.

I'd avoid getting any of the starter box models by themselves because you'll be unlikely to build lists with two Axers.

Plus, IIRC the Warlock in the starter boxes is effectively free.

**Fafnir**

Yep, the box saves you about $28 USD.

Still, do impalers have a roll in a Doomshaper list(of either primal or epic versions)?

There's no doubt that the box is a good deal (especially compared to GW's meager offerings), but does it have things that I actually want to make use of?

**Da Boss**

Well, the Impaler is a very versitile beast, and I'd bet after a few months of playing you'd be glad to have access to both them and Madrak as a second caster for a new way to play the game. I started with just Doomie and ended up going for Kegslayer and Grim too, for varieties sake.