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So i'm going to be ramping my army up to 1500 points soon, but I really want a new HQ other than my good old fire magnet demon prince

As the subject says, should I get Kharn or Abbadon?

Kharn seems to be very good for the points, while Abbadon is expensive but ridiculously powerful

I've only been playing 40k for about 2 months, so help would be great

Kharn, cheaper and he kills other dudes in your squads instead of himself.

Better back story too...Ran over by Land Raider, rezed by Khorne.

Abby? 13 failed Black Crusades.... /golfclap.

Yaaay gow Adabadon. He is da funnest. Seriously though go for Kharn i would definitely much rather kill his own squad then himself.

+1 Kharn

He cant fail no matter what he does! When he swings something dies, friendly or not; mission accomplished. He's good points wise, and as previously mentioned he kills other people and not himself on 1's in CC

The votes for Kharn here are all based around seemingly poor reasons. I'd tell you that Abbadon is a monstrous, destructive, force of chaos. He's expensive, but can virtually single-handedly decide a game. Stick him into a land raider, give him some possessed marines or whatever your favorite flavor is and he will utterly destroy everything. He exists to be your hammer. Where space marines (even chaos) consist of a bunch of middle-of-the-road units that are "ok" at a lot of things, Abbadon presents an unequivocably terrifying threat.

Kharn doesn't scare anyone.

Speaking of Kharn, remember that he adds a couple of dimensions to any unit, namely anti-tank because Gorechild hits like a Monstrous Creature, and surprisingly reliability: always hitting on 2+, usually wounding on 2+, ignoring armour saves, and having more attacks that is strictly healthy means that the odd friendly-stab is a small price to pay for a goon who can murder anything. Stick him with Possessed where their Iv5+ can usually make the difference between dead and less dead on their part, as well as forming a valuable meat-shield around his Bastardliness.

Abbadon is a terrifying engine of destruction, but he's costly, even more so than a Land Raider without Ahriman's ability to reach out and bad-touch someone. At 1500pts he's either over-kill or doesn't get to do enough to justify his exorbitant cost. Kharn is a bargain, even when you factor in the cost of the harvest.

I say go for Ahriman in terms of dominating 1500pt games with a terrifying Chaos character.

I see a lot of good points here, i'm starting to think abbadon is kind of overkill

If I did go Ahriman, what is a good use for him? Would he really do that much damage?

sorry, i might sound like a total noob, but that's because I am ha
thanks for the help so far

Anti-tank should you need it:

Str 6 2D6.
or
Str 8.

Anti-infantry:

Str 6 power weapon. 5 Attacks (can back fire on others) hits on 2's.
Str 8 power weapon. 4+D6 (can back fire on self) hits at best on 3's.

Abby is alot tougher in many ways for 110 points more.
+1 T, +1 W, T Armor, better save, EW...worth that cost? I don't know.

So we have:

Kharn: cheap, kills vehicles, kills infantry.
Abby: Expensive, kils vehicles and infantry similarly to Kharn...except pays an arm and a leg for his defensive values.

Kharn wins in many ways.
________________

@Nurglitch: Ahriman at 1500...is that supposed to be serious? If so, bat reps please. 'Arhiman' and 'dominating' is something I do not see in the same sentance. Please enlighten me.


Last time I checked, GW made sure their Shafting of Arihman was absolute in their FAQ.

Darien13:

Ahriman is a Sorcerer of Tzeentch except that he can cast three powers each turn, and up to three of the same non-shooting psychic power. So, for example, he could pummel a unit with Doombolt, Bolt of Change, and Winds of Chaos. In the latter case, casualties increase from 50% to 75% with no armour save or cover save.

But the real fun is the combinations with Warptime, where you cast Warptime and then follow up in the shooting phase with two of the above powers, or simply one (usually Winds of Chaos) and reserve the third for a Force Weapon psychic attack once he's in combat. Warptime makes Chaos psychic powers deadly, and a Sorcerer almost as effective in combat as a well-equipped Lord.

Once he's in combat, you have the option of, for example, casting Warptime and then two Gifts of Chaos to take out any inconvenient Powerfist bearing models that survived his initial onslaught the previous turn. You can do that out of combat, but all you're left with for shooting is an AP3 Bolt Pistol re-rolling 2+ to hit and to wound.

He does cost as much as a Land Raider, like Abbadon, but has the opportunity to reach out and touch people with his ranged weapon psychic powers. Trying to run him without an accompanying unit of Possessed is a waste of time though, and considering most people's ignorance of the benefits of Possessed it's no wonder so many people write Ahriman off.

If it's not a kill-point game then you'll need lots of Spawn models.

I don't get why adding Ahriman to possessed is that good.

Ahriman 'could' suppliment the possessed, but by him simply joining the possessed it eliminates the usage of some of the powers (scout and fleet 1/3 of the powers).

3 Spawning is about the only good he is. Even then you'll most likely have to get into the thick of it first before you are in range to use it, which means flirting with a fist (even with a 4++) before you get to Spawn.

In addition, though you get to shoot 3 times, (surely anything is better than nothing) but they are all 3 different types of shooting.

Coupled with no psycher defense, no 'special' defense against perils.

Also, even in objective games, one has to be careful of putting Spawn down and committing to a combat, their somewhat fragile nature can turn combat resolution against you.

Kharn, for what 150pts? Such a good deal.

Abby is 2000+ only if you ask me.

Sanctjud wrote:
Abby? 13 failed Black Crusades.... /golfclap.

lollerskates. Cadia, the gateway to the eye of terror is completely screwed, the planet itself is all that's left with a bunch of guys on it but the entire system and all imperium ships are destroyed and Abbadon is running rampant. Even has a necron planet destroyer weapon to use if he feels like it. Chaos now has a free path to the rest of the galaxy. Sounds like fail to me.

Ahriman is a phag. Abby > all.

Abaddon is pretty expensive for 1500 pts but he does kick much ass. Kharn might be better for that points level.

I'm sad that Lucius isn't considered a viable choice... :(

Kharn is such a great bargain but I dont like putting him with Possessed. Instead Terminators

4 Terminators w/
Powerfist;combimelta
Powerfist;combimelta
Dual LC
Dual LC
Mark of khorne

200 points
8 Powerfist attacks on a charge
10 Lightning Claw Attacks

Plus it has 2 combimeltas to smoke transports so you can get the juicy bits.

9 Possessed = 234

Its your call really I see benefits of using either of them.



Is a really great little retinue to put in a Landraider + you can fit another normal powerarmoured IC in there with them.

Termies =/= fearless.
They fail there.

As for Abby: sure he's accomplishing stuff each time.......but 13?
Seriously.... 13? Like some soap opera that won't end.

__________________

As for Lucius: Kharne pretty much took all Lucius's old stats and added some more awesome sauce.
Lucius is basically an 'extra' doom siren.

Contradictory usage of special items, way to go GW.

Myth of 13th Crusade being a failure is annoying.

I don't get Lucius's armor. I think his whip sounds pretty cool, however.

Abbadon is great, but I think he is too expensive.

He cant ride in a rhino, if you deepstrike him he has the potential to chill out till turn 5, and walking him means he can be avoided.

So, the only way to get him into combat reliably is to put him in a LR. and the abbadon and LR combo is about 500 points.

in a 1500 point game, Abbadon, and the abbadon delivery system is too much of your army. In my opinion at least.

Go for Kharn. He will almost always make his points back and can easily tag along with a squad in a rhino.

In a 1500 point game, Ghazghkull and a unit of diversified nobs in a battlewagon end the game for the most part.

In a 1500 point game, Abbadon and a unit of possessed in a land raider end the game for the most part.

Don't be afraid of using a good character because they're expensive. People are too afraid of taking high point units for fear that they'll be targeted. So what? Abbadon can laugh it all off.

I agree with dash somewhat, and if you stick Abbadon in with berserkers, then you can drive them right up to an objective, and guess what happens when you punch the enemy off of it? You take it, because the Zerkers are troops. I think 1500 points is a good place to include badass special characters, they are incredibly killy and at 1500 there isn't a whole lot that can stop them aside from another badass special character (and it has been discussed that Abbadon is basically the most killy close combat character in the entire game)

Edit: you just have to hope your opponent takes the bait and tries to deal with him, if not then they will turn the rest of your army into a smoking crater.

Why would possesed be better to run abbadon with than khorne berserkers?

Meh.
I don't agree with that, but:

They have an inv. save. Which is a bit better than 'just power armor'.

Secondly, the 'non troop status' can be viewed as an asset.
It's a unit the opponent doesn't want to focus on too muhch as it doesn't score, so you can be loose about them and throw them at anything.

I don't agree with that point of view... scoring or not, everything is disposable if it means winning and if you throw a unit at the enemy they will have to react to it, socring or not.

Anyway, I don't think possessed are that great as a body guard. Can they function at that role, yes.

But,
Lack of fist, lack of grenades, loss of 2 of the 6 daemonkin powers they could get with the inclusion of an IC.

These are pretty big things you lose out to get a decent combat units for an IC.

I'm in the boat that they should settle with a squad of only themselves in a rhino... maximum efficiency found there.

But hell, anything works...Point at something and charge it. It should die