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An IG player at my shop who I haven't seen in a while came in today and showed off his new list. He has a knight squad that he deploys in a valkyrie. Is that legit? Also doesn't he need an HQ choice from that codex as well to field them?

Yes and No.

I believe in the IG FAQ it states that power armored models can ride in valks/vendettas.

The DH codex allows him to ally with the IG. The only restriction is that he can have 0-1 HQ, 0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast, and 0-1 Elite. He is not required to take an HQ unless the knights require an HQ to be fielded.

For example, a penitent engine in the WH codex requires a priest (I think, some certain HQ) in order for it to be fielded.

Looks legit. So long as he has his compulsory units from his parent list (1 HQ and 2 troops from IG's), then he can do that.

Yeah, good point puma.

While the PAGK are troops, they don't count against his 2 required troops in the IG list. So, as puma said, as long as he has an IG HQ and 2 IG troop choices, it's legit.

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I don't have the DH codex but I know for sure that the IG codex doesn't mention any allies.

So, in order to make a DH IG combo he would have to play the DH codex and therefore be forced to follow that FO?

And if the "only restriction is 0-1 HQ, 0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast, and 0-1 Elite" I don't see how he can field 1 IG HQ and 2 IG troops.

Or am I confused?

berglin wrote:Shouldn't it be the other way around?

I don't have the DH codex but I know for sure that the IG codex doesn't mention any allies.

So, in order to make a DH IG combo he would have to play the DH codex and therefore be forced to follow that FO?

And if the "only restriction is 0-1 HQ, 0-2 Troops, 0-1 Fast, and 0-1 Elite" I don't see how he can field 1 IG HQ and 2 IG troops.

Or am I confused?

Yes, in the DH Codex, there's an entry specifically for other armies (notably Space Marines and IG's) to take DH as allies. You can do this as long as the compulsory units (Marines or IG's, HQ and 2 Troops) have come from the parent codex. Then there are restrictions as to how many DH units you can take, but other than that, it's legal.

Sweet, so it's basically an IG army with DH elements.

I always thought it was the other way around, DH army with IG fleshwalls.

Maybe I need to get me a DH codex.

I've only heard the term "inducted guard" which imply to me that it's not necessarily volontary to join the DH. :-P

berglin wrote:Sweet, so it's basically an IG army with DH elements.

I always thought it was the other way around, DH army with IG fleshwalls.

Maybe I need to get me a DH codex.

I've only heard the term "inducted guard" which imply to me that it's not necessarily volontary to join the DH. :-P

Right, in my IG army, I field an Inquisitor with a full retinue - three multi-melta Warriors, two sages, two mystics. Then, I field a Callidus Assassin + Psyker Battle Squad.

First of all, for the Mystics, every time someone lands a drop pod near my line of Leman's my Inquisitor gets a free shot with his retinue (3 multi-meltas) or he can elect to allow a unit within 12" of him to take the shots (great for an Executioner pointing 5 Str7 AP2 blasts at a drop pod full of troops).

And, the Callidus + Psyker Battle Squad can be devastating. Use Weaken Resolve to drop a unit's leadership to 2. Hit them with Neural Shredder (Str 8 against their Ld 2) @ AP1. Suddenly, they're taking a flamer template of Instant Death AP1 shots. And, generally, they auto-break. If they don't break far enough, the Callidus assaults them. If they don't pass a Ld test against their Ld 2, they're destroyed.

Ouch.

@berglin

They can do it both ways.

"Inducted IG" is when you have a DH core with IG attachments.

Makes me want to get an inquisitor in my Beastguard list as a shaman-esque model.

Hmmmm

Legit so long as they aren't Terminators.

puma713 wrote:

And, the Callidus + Psyker Battle Squad can be devastating. Use Weaken Resolve to drop a unit's leadership to 2. Hit them with Neural Shredder (Str 8 against their Ld 2) @ AP1. Suddenly, they're taking a flamer template of Instant Death AP1 shots. And, generally, they auto-break. If they don't break far enough, the Callidus assaults them. If they don't pass a Ld test against their Ld 2, they're destroyed.

Yeah, I love this combo!! Put her behind them when she comes in instead of where she'll get the most models with the template, that way when they fall back she'll almost always still be in assault range. After all, you only need to kill enough for a Morale test. Only unit this doesn't work against is ATSKNF Marines, as they automatically rally when you assault them.

You could hazard them shooting the Cally and try to escort them off the board.

I personally don't like mixing codicies...but that's beside the point.

Perfectly legal to run Grey Knights (the regular power armor kind) in a Valkyrie. Grey Knight Terminators used to be legal but the FAQ a couple months ago disallowed that.

It's not even particularly unfluffy in my opinion. Grey Knights should have better transportation/mechanization options than regular Space Marines but dont due to their antique codex. Hopefully they'll fix that if they ever update the Daemonhunters/Inquisition codexes. When the Ordo Malleus tells the Imperial Navy that it wants to borrow a Valkyrie, the Imperial Navy lets them borrow a Valkyrie. It's not like the combination is cheap points-wise either.

Keep in mind that if the IG player is going first, Valkyries mean the Grey Knights are fully capable of assaulting on turn 1. I've seen Necron players phased out before they get a turn in this way.

Terminators can't ride in gunships. Check the FAQ for the official rules. I would rather put a squad of Grey Knights in a chimera anyways since it has firepoints.

G

puma713 wrote:

berglin wrote:Sweet, so it's basically an IG army with DH elements.

I always thought it was the other way around, DH army with IG fleshwalls.

Maybe I need to get me a DH codex.

I've only heard the term "inducted guard" which imply to me that it's not necessarily volontary to join the DH. :-P

Right, in my IG army, I field an Inquisitor with a full retinue - three multi-melta Warriors, two sages, two mystics. Then, I field a Callidus Assassin + Psyker Battle Squad.

First of all, for the Mystics, every time someone lands a drop pod near my line of Leman's my Inquisitor gets a free shot with his retinue (3 multi-meltas) or he can elect to allow a unit within 12" of him to take the shots (great for an Executioner pointing 5 Str7 AP2 blasts at a drop pod full of troops).

And, the Callidus + Psyker Battle Squad can be devastating. Use Weaken Resolve to drop a unit's leadership to 2. Hit them with Neural Shredder (Str 8 against their Ld 2) @ AP1. Suddenly, they're taking a flamer template of Instant Death AP1 shots. And, generally, they auto-break. If they don't break far enough, the Callidus assaults them. If they don't pass a Ld test against their Ld 2, they're destroyed.

Ouch.

You should try a Culuxes assassin instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll say it again....

GW FAQs are not official. Read their website: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat410004&categoryId=1000018§ion=&aId=3400019

GW FAQs are GW "Studio House Rules". Emphasis on "House Rules". RAW says 12 models or the equivalent. Only restriction in on Ogryns.

Ironhide wrote:

puma713 wrote:

berglin wrote:Sweet, so it's basically an IG army with DH elements.

I always thought it was the other way around, DH army with IG fleshwalls.

Maybe I need to get me a DH codex.

I've only heard the term "inducted guard" which imply to me that it's not necessarily volontary to join the DH. :-P

Right, in my IG army, I field an Inquisitor with a full retinue - three multi-melta Warriors, two sages, two mystics. Then, I field a Callidus Assassin + Psyker Battle Squad.

First of all, for the Mystics, every time someone lands a drop pod near my line of Leman's my Inquisitor gets a free shot with his retinue (3 multi-meltas) or he can elect to allow a unit within 12" of him to take the shots (great for an Executioner pointing 5 Str7 AP2 blasts at a drop pod full of troops).

And, the Callidus + Psyker Battle Squad can be devastating. Use Weaken Resolve to drop a unit's leadership to 2. Hit them with Neural Shredder (Str 8 against their Ld 2) @ AP1. Suddenly, they're taking a flamer template of Instant Death AP1 shots. And, generally, they auto-break. If they don't break far enough, the Callidus assaults them. If they don't pass a Ld test against their Ld 2, they're destroyed.

Ouch.

You should try a Culuxes assassin instead.

The reason Callidus is so devastating is because she can appear 1" away from the enemy when she arrives and then wreak havoc. You'd have to position the Culexus for optimum effect.

And is that really so hard to do? He can infiltrate. Also, the Culuxes' Animus Speculum is an Assault 2 weapon + however many psykers that are within 12 inches of it. You'll get more out of the speculum than you will out of the neural shredder. Not to mention the Soulless ability that will drop the affected unit down to Ld 7.

Ironhide wrote:And is that really so hard to do? He can infiltrate. Also, the Culuxes' Animus Speculum is an Assault 2 weapon + however many psykers that are within 12 inches of it. You'll get more out of the speculum than you will out of the neural shredder. Not to mention the Soulless ability that will drop the affected unit down to Ld 7.

Right, I'd much rather drop the Callidus in anywhere I'd like rather than fiddle with infiltrate. And getting more out of a Speculum than a Neural Shredder? Did you even read my post? So, let's just say that you have, at max 2 psykers within 12" which, in my experience, doesn't happen often. For fairness, let's say you have 2, though. Okay, so the unit you're shooting is at Ld. 7 and you hit them with 4 Strength 5 AP 1 hits. Okay, so at most, you're going to kill 4 guys. And you can't instant death them.

Now, with the Callidus + Psyker Battle squad, as I pointed out above, you position the Callidus where you could get a nice flamer template - about 6-8 guys usually. You reduce the Ld. of the unit you're targetting to 2. So, you're pretty much guaranteed that they'll break. You hit them with the flamer template (which ignores cover) and do so at Str 8 versus their Ld. of 2. So that's instant death. It's also AP1.

In summation, not only can cover saves be taken against the Speculum, but the assassin has to roll to hit and roll 3+ (usually) to wound. Callidus doesn't need to roll to hit, she wounds on 2+ in most cases and it's AP1. Not to mention causing Instant Death. So, once reduced by probably 4-5 models, they'll break and turn tail (which is not nearly so certain with the Culexus). Once they do, the Callidus can assault. And this is all in her first turn of appearing. She didn't have to make any saves, she didn't have to take any wounds.

Ironhide wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'll say it again....

GW FAQs are not official. Read their website: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat410004&categoryId=1000018§ion=&aId=3400019

GW FAQs are GW "Studio House Rules". Emphasis on "House Rules". RAW says 12 models or the equivalent. Only restriction in on Ogryns.

Whatever, read my sig....................


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ironhide wrote:And is that really so hard to do? He can infiltrate. Also, the Culuxes' Animus Speculum is an Assault 2 weapon + however many psykers that are within 12 inches of it. You'll get more out of the speculum than you will out of the neural shredder. Not to mention the Soulless ability that will drop the affected unit down to Ld 7.

For him to survive long enough to do anything, yes, it is. He's a T4 2-wound model with a 4+ save. Once you get to shoot at a temple assassin, they usually die. IMO, the Craplexus is the most useless of the assassins.

puma713 wrote:Hit them with Neural Shredder (Str 8 against their Ld 2) @ AP1. Suddenly, they're taking a flamer template of Instant Death AP1 shots.

Nice Combo

The Neural Shredder only causes Instant Death to T4 or less models.
(Still pretty damn good)

Thanatos_elNyx wrote:

puma713 wrote:Hit them with Neural Shredder (Str 8 against their Ld 2) @ AP1. Suddenly, they're taking a flamer template of Instant Death AP1 shots.

Nice Combo

The Neural Shredder only causes Instant Death to T4 or less models.
(Still pretty damn good)

No, it causes ID to LD 4 or less models (per GW FAQ). So using the PBS Weaken Resolve to drop LD to 4 or less means ID to that unit.
Did you know that the Eldar Avatar does not have Eternal Warrior..................?

Edit to add FAQ quote:
Q. Can a neural shredder cause instant death?
A. Yes, but only when the weapon’s Strength of 8
is double or more the target’s Ld value (Ld 4 or
less).

Don't forget that the Culexus drops the Ld of the PBS as well...

Calli wins out in almost every scenario...
AND has a word in your ear
(which is amazing.)

SnowMongoose wrote:Don't forget that the Culexus drops the Ld of the PBS as well...

True, but one of the beauties of the combo is the PBS can use their power from 36" away and whilst popping one of their heads out of a chimera.

puma713 wrote:

SnowMongoose wrote:Don't forget that the Culexus drops the Ld of the PBS as well...

True, but one of the beauties of the combo is the PBS can use their power from 36" away and whilst popping one of their heads out of a chimera.

But if they're so far away the Culexus won't get extra shots. What use is it then?

Spetulhu wrote:

puma713 wrote:

SnowMongoose wrote:Don't forget that the Culexus drops the Ld of the PBS as well...

True, but one of the beauties of the combo is the PBS can use their power from 36" away and whilst popping one of their heads out of a chimera.

But if they're so far away the Culexus won't get extra shots. What use is it then?

I don't use the Culexus. I use the Callidus.

don_mondo wrote:No, it causes ID to LD 4 or less models (per GW FAQ). So using the PBS Weaken Resolve to drop LD to 4 or less means ID to that unit.
Did you know that the Eldar Avatar does not have Eternal Warrior..................?

Edit to add FAQ quote:
Q. Can a neural shredder cause instant death?
A. Yes, but only when the weapon’s Strength of 8
is double or more the target’s Ld value (Ld 4 or
less).

Thanks, I must have missed that!
That combo is re-donk-ulous!!