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If GW was to get around to releasing a 40k spin-off Horus Heresy game (I think it's rules would need to significantly depart from basic 40k, at least as much as CoD and PS), what kind of armies would you like to see? And what kind of models for each army? I'd love to see a "Hands of the Emperor" Codex featuring Custodes and Sisters of Silence. I'd rather them work in the same army and be a rather high price per model kind of army (relative to Marine Legion costs, of course) than be separate. Obviously, there'd need to be Loyalist and Traitor Marine books and possible an Imperial Army one, too. I think it'd be a cool way to get back Craftworld Eldar, as well.

Well, what would you guys like to see? Do you agree about it having its own ruleset or can basic 40k/Apocalypse handle it? If not, any ideas on how it would play? IMO you'd need some fairly different rules to accommodate playing with Primarchs. Any specific ideas about how a Legion dex would need to be written? Would certain Legions need their own books (I am especially thinking of Thousand Sons and Dark Angels) or could GW get away with two books covering all eighteen? What kind of xenos armies would you include?

They would definitley need some Primarch models with rules for those who want to play Primarchs like Angron, Filgrim, before the Heresy and after. The could put all the armies in one codex but will GW do that?

Such a thing would likely run over two hundred pages given how much fluffy stuff GW likes to put in a dex so probably not all in one book--at least that would not be my preference.

Manchu wrote:If GW was to get around to releasing a 40k spin-off Horus Heresy game (I think it's rules would need to significantly depart from basic 40k, at least as much as CoD and PS),

I don't really see it needed a new rule set, it's basically 2 huge army lists Pre-Heresy Imperium and Horus' Traitor Legions.

And even Horus' legions would look a lot like the Imperium.

Basically you need:

Flexible Space Marine list (squads 5-20 marines, bolters or pistol/CC, 1 special or heavy per 5 models).
Flexible Imperial Army list (squads 5-20 guardsmen, options similar to vets)
Leave out post heresy gear (no razorbacks, no LR varients), mix marine and IG gear.

Then a crapton of special characters. Rather than give the Primarchs stats I'd include a customizable primarch entry with the rationale that the primarchs used different skills and weapons at different points in their careers.

Mostly this would a be a great excuse to do marines in historical armor, bring back the old IG design in plastic and update the old land speeders and other vehicles.

The current Marine Codex could not handle HH era Legions so there would have to be a Legions Codex at the very least (assuming the "Great Company" model was used by all of them). Also, a generalized Primarch entry seems a bit silly IMO given that they had such different personalities and abilities. Also, an Imperial Army book would be entirely different given the lack of definitive units like the Leman Russ. Maybe Imperial Army units would be a mandatory troops choice for Legion lists over a certain points limit? You don't see much of the Imperial Army working on its own in the HH books.

I favor 'generic primarchs' because I like the idea of them being mysterious. We could have a 30 page arguement on what the 'right' stats for Leman Russ are so why not just have a generic stat line and selection of skills, powers and weapons. that way we can each follow our own vision of how the characters should be.

My ideal Warhammer 30k list would look something like this:

HQ
Human General
Marine Commander

TROOPS
Imperial army (platoons, vets, conscripts, more weapon options than current codex)
beastmen (just cause)

TRANSPORT
Rhino

ELITE
Space Marines
Robots

FAST
Land speeders (marine and guard)
Bike (marine and guard)
Rough Riders

HEAVY
Predator
Leman Russ
Land raider
Basilisk

I'm sure I forget something but that's my general idea.

I'm not saying we should have an argument about the Primarchs' stats. I'm saying the boys and girls at Nottingham should. And then they should publish them in nine separate entries in the Loyalist Legions 'dex. A generic entry misses Magnus having all sorts of sorcerous power or Angron being hopped up on combat drugs, etc, etc, etc. Also, was the Leman Russ battle tank even around back then? Is it STC or what? Lol @ beastmen. Next you'll be adding Dark Eldar.

My point is whatever they come up with would disappoint some people. So a good 'build a primarch' rule, something like the old Daemon Prince from 3.5 would let us come up with some truly cool and nasty stuff.

I totally see your point. Can you imagine the dakka threads? "Worst Primarch," "Dorn is useless," "Fulgrim should have a higher WS rather than the stupid high initiative," and on and on and on. But you know a generic ruleset would eventually be broken down to an "uber build" on YTTH and suddenly that would be either every Primarch or the only Primarch (depending on how Stelek named it). As a casual gamer (play liking Jervis wants me to), I'd have to go with a unique entry for each.

I should point out I gave up on the Horus Heresy books a while back so there's now tons more fluff out there that I don't know.

In my mind the Primarchs are still super mysterious, but by now they may have given out Manos' hat size.

Which one did you leave on? Most are pretty good. I'd especially recommend Flight of the Eisenstein.

Anyway, I don't think there's any way to make a counts as Sisters of Silence army. I don't even think they'd necessarily need a whole army. But I don't think there is any unit that would correctly represent them. Custodes are in the same boat, I think.

Oh and I just remembered: we're going to need lots and lots of jetbikes. And a Stormbird model, although it'd be depressing to see a Stormbird released before a Thunderhawk.

I wouldn't want a game per se, maybe just some collector's models of the dramitis personae in the books.

TBH, that's a LOT more likely than a full range of minis. Just ask the Necron players.

I think the BOLS's Age of Heresy campaign books are a good way to go about it. Having it as a more of an expansion to Codex Marines, and making unit adjustments per Legion, with its own profiles for special characters and units. It'll be good when/if they ever update it for 5th ed.

As for the Primarchs, they should be similar to the Phoenix Lords imo. They should all have the same basic stats and special rules across the board, then with special rules, abilities and equipment of their own to distinguish themselves more.

In the way of kits, a general 'Pre-Heresy Mk. upgrade' kit would be cool. Just random parts with all the older mark armours to kit your marines out with.

God help us if FW did that. It'd cost USD67 for ten legion marines.

I demand the Emprah himself.

Modelwise, I'd like to see more of the older armour types. Everything Mk6 or earlier.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I favor 'generic primarchs' because I like the idea of them being mysterious. We could have a 30 page arguement on what the 'right' stats for Leman Russ are so why not just have a generic stat line and selection of skills, powers and weapons. that way we can each follow our own vision of how the characters should be.

My ideal Warhammer 30k list would look something like this:

HQ
Human General
Marine Commander

TROOPS
Imperial army (platoons, vets, conscripts, more weapon options than current codex)
beastmen (just cause)

TRANSPORT
Rhino

ELITE
Space Marines
Robots

FAST
Land speeders (marine and guard)
Bike (marine and guard)
Rough Riders

HEAVY
Predator
Leman Russ
Land raider
Basilisk

I'm sure I forget something but that's my general idea.

You forgot jetbike squads.

Less of this traitor-Legion rubbish, I'd love a Pre-Heresy Death Guard led by Mortarion... ah, the joys!!!

"For Mortarion and The Emperor! COUNT THE SEVEN!!!"

Manchu wrote:Which one did you leave on? Most are pretty good. I'd especially recommend Flight of the Eisenstein.

I picked them up here and there, after the horrorable book on the Mechanicus I think I'm done with them. Legion (the ALpha Legion book) was also pretty bad, it was fine up through the end but then the fantastically loyal Primarch sees an alien powerpoint presentation and betrays the Emperor. WTF?

Also, back then there was no known Tyranid invasion.

This means they have NO CHOICE but to include Squats.

Jetbikes. If they came out with Jetbikes as badass looking as Sammael's I'd buy them by the box.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I picked them up here and there, after the horrorable book on the Mechanicus I think I'm done with them. Legion (the ALpha Legion book) was also pretty bad, it was fine up through the end but then the fantastically loyal Primarch sees an alien powerpoint presentation and betrays the Emperor. WTF?

I also suffered through Mechanicus. One of the great things about the series, however, is that they are written by different authors. I know some of the stuff is cheesy but this is 40k, after all.

So this thread has:

-the one and only ruler of the galaxy...
-custodes
-his silent sisterhood
-primarchs and their legions
-the imperial army
-some eldar

Lacks:

-mechanicus
-orks

benefits from not having:
-tau
-nids


I wouldnt include stormbirds ( too huge ), but a lot of different legion specific stuff and older PA/TDA.
Plus plastic custodes, plastic sisters, plastic techmagi.

I guess some Titans and the Dark Mechanicum would be necessary. Plastic skitarri!

Standard titans but " dark" mech?
Maybe plastic techmagi would allow any conversion one can think of....

I'd rather see pre-heresy kits + "downgrade"(choas) sprues as a successful line.

First, nice old style wargear, then additional sprues to flesh things out.

Skittari, maybe but I'd ignore them if they were metal ( so 3-4 poses ).
Instead of such having Plastic sprues to convert your guard, yes, possible new army then.....

Manchu wrote: And a Stormbird model, although it'd be depressing to see a Stormbird released before a Thunderhawk.

what if they released them both as a kit, like the baneblade(stormsword?

That's a really good idea, actually. I'd also like to see old school Land Raiders.

Going slightly OT here, but: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=98&enmi=Horus%20Heresy It wont be the same as playing out the heresy in 40k, but it looks damn good anyway.

Ah, I knew I forgot some stuff. Now for my ammended

IMPERIAL MEGA CRUSADE ERA ARMY LIST!

HQ
Human General
Marine Commander
Primarch (makes marines troops)
Emperor and his Custodes Guard

TROOPS
Imperial army platoons
Imperial army vets
Imperial army conscripts
Imperial Irregulars (lots of weapon options to represent crazy units inducted before the IG was standardized)
beastmen (just cause)

TRANSPORT
Rhino (only)

ELITE
Space Marines (all squads are vets, terminator armor is an upgrade)
Dreadnaught
Tech priest
Skittari
Sisters of silence

FAST
Land speeders (marine and guard)
Bike (marine and guard)
Rough Riders
Jet bikes (marine and guard)
Assault marines

HEAVY
Predator
Leman Russ
Land raider
Basilisk
Knight (large Adeptus Mech walker)
Baneblade (they were more common then)
Devestator marines
Mole mortar, thudd gun batteries
Robots

NOTES
No plasma weapons except cannons on vehicles and MC plasma pistols for characters. They were ultra rare.
Other vehicles (valkyries, sentinels, rhino varients) did exist but were rare. To use them just use a 40k army list.
Eldar and Orks were basically the same, use the 40k lists.
Horus' list is basically the same, but with daemons in there somewhere.