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Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:may I just point out that although we are all miniature gaming enthusiasts I'm impressed by the historical/nautical knowledge shared by my fellow Dakkaites. Some of it isn't that accurate but alot of what is being said is spot on
And some people want the OT forum done away with. . . Shame!
Nope, I did not. (I was painting, gotta find some time somewhere)
I did however hear about it, and watched a bit of the Patriots game. Also, New England clam chowdah is the only clam chowder for me. (I hate Manhattan style.)
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:may I just point out that although we are all miniature gaming enthusiasts I'm impressed by the historical/nautical knowledge shared by my fellow Dakkaites. Some of it isn't that accurate but alot of what is being said is spot on
And some people want the OT forum done away with. . . Shame!
It's because you don't treat the Spacemanz website as it should be treated.
Serious Business.
Drink deeply and lustily from the foamy draught of evil.
W: 1.756 Quadrillion L: 0 D: 2
Haters gon' hate.
Warboss Imbad Ironskull wrote:may I just point out that although we are all miniature gaming enthusiasts I'm impressed by the historical/nautical knowledge shared by my fellow Dakkaites. Some of it isn't that accurate but alot of what is being said is spot on
Hyu has to be a Schmott Guy like dis fella to play wit toy soldjas.
(Credit Phil and Kaja Foglio)
Of all the races of the universe the Squats have the longest memories and the shortest tempers. They are uncouth, unpredictably violent, and frequently drunk. Overall, I'm glad they're on our side!
Office of Naval Intelligence Research discovers 3 out of 4 sailors make up 75% of U.S. Navy.
"Madness is like gravity... All you need is a little push."
Of all the races of the universe the Squats have the longest memories and the shortest tempers. They are uncouth, unpredictably violent, and frequently drunk. Overall, I'm glad they're on our side!
Office of Naval Intelligence Research discovers 3 out of 4 sailors make up 75% of U.S. Navy.
"Madness is like gravity... All you need is a little push."
Also I just wanted to add a bit more about the firearms that the pirates used.
Sure back in the day SOME guns had rifling, but it wasnt a very popular way to build guns, due to many reasons, mainly it was just harder to do it. MOST flintlocks back then were smooth bore. So sure the muskets were more accurate then the pistols, I still wouldnt call it them anywhere near accurate. The entire design of a flintlock was just full of bad. The lead balls were small, and usually packed into the barrel with shirt and cloth. This didnt make a very tight pack, and so gasses would escape around the ball making them EVEN MORE inaccurate.
Not to mention pirates spent alot of time on the sea (Inorite?) and the salty sea air would plague their guns even further. If you asked me, Id say they carried so many firearms 50% to missing and 50% to pan flashes.
Also, the vikings didnt wear JUST chainmail. They would wear heavy cloth and leathers/furs as well. Now Im not saying that would make modern day bullet resistant vests, but that DOES make layers. And layers butt rape bullets more then anything. Hell phones books are actually proven to make small arms bullet proofing for cars. Why? Layers.
Im just glad the Vikings are back on top.....where they belong
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
KingCracker wrote:Also I just wanted to add a bit more about the firearms that the pirates used.
Sure back in the day SOME guns had rifling, but it wasnt a very popular way to build guns, due to many reasons, mainly it was just harder to do it. MOST flintlocks back then were smooth bore. So sure the muskets were more accurate then the pistols, I still wouldnt call it them anywhere near accurate. The entire design of a flintlock was just full of bad. The lead balls were small, and usually packed into the barrel with shirt and cloth. This didnt make a very tight pack, and so gasses would escape around the ball making them EVEN MORE inaccurate.
You do realise that muskets evolved over time? Sure if we're talking 1650's-1700's they were pretty damn innaccurate, but further on they start kicking tail and taking names.
Not to mention pirates spent alot of time on the sea (Inorite?) and the salty sea air would plague their guns even further. If you asked me, Id say they carried so many firearms 50% to missing and 50% to pan flashes.
1) Any sailor worth his salt would preserve their weapons to the best of their ability...but yes.
2) If this is matchup is taking place at sea, pirates have already won.
Also, the vikings didnt wear JUST chainmail. They would wear heavy cloth and leathers/furs as well. Now Im not saying that would make modern day bullet resistant vests, but that DOES make layers. And layers butt rape bullets more then anything. Hell phones books are actually proven to make small arms bullet proofing for cars. Why? Layers.
Muskets have been proven to have more punching power than the average handgun.
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
Vikings, duh. Pirates are fgts. No, but pirates have less 'guff' than vikings, and their swords are rusty from the sea. A viking's axe is clean and sharp, like his tough HOHOHO!
I think it's unfair to hold things like salt corrosion and the like against pirates in this match-up. I think one has to compared a median pirate raider crew with ship vs a median viking raider crew with ship, and assume each has fully functional equipment in good repair.
Otherwise I'm going to insist the pirates win since the Vikings just crossed the Atlantic in a longship, and thus are probably already dead (having been swamped at sea), terribly sick and starving, and otherwise in poor shape for combat.
Also, anyone who is trying to make this Norseman army vs Pirates is totally cheating. Viking are raiders, that is what viking means. If we're talking about the full military might of the Nordic peoples crica 11th century, then the pirates -- privateers -- have to be able to draw on the resources of the entire British navy, which means now you're talking viking versus British ships of the line, the same ships that shattered the Spanish Armada.
KingCracker wrote:Also I just wanted to add a bit more about the firearms that the pirates used.
Sure back in the day SOME guns had rifling, but it wasnt a very popular way to build guns, due to many reasons, mainly it was just harder to do it. MOST flintlocks back then were smooth bore. So sure the muskets were more accurate then the pistols, I still wouldnt call it them anywhere near accurate. The entire design of a flintlock was just full of bad. The lead balls were small, and usually packed into the barrel with shirt and cloth. This didnt make a very tight pack, and so gasses would escape around the ball making them EVEN MORE inaccurate.
You do realise that muskets evolved over time? Sure if we're talking 1650's-1700's they were pretty damn innaccurate, but further on they start kicking tail and taking names.
Not to mention pirates spent alot of time on the sea (Inorite?) and the salty sea air would plague their guns even further. If you asked me, Id say they carried so many firearms 50% to missing and 50% to pan flashes.
1) Any sailor worth his salt would preserve their weapons to the best of their ability...but yes.
2) If this is matchup is taking place at sea, pirates have already won.
Also, the vikings didnt wear JUST chainmail. They would wear heavy cloth and leathers/furs as well. Now Im not saying that would make modern day bullet resistant vests, but that DOES make layers. And layers butt rape bullets more then anything. Hell phones books are actually proven to make small arms bullet proofing for cars. Why? Layers.
Muskets have been proven to have more punching power than the average handgun.
Firstly with that line of logic, I could just say that Vikings evolved into a modern military and so they win by default. Yes eventually flintlocks evolve into better weapons, but the typical "Pirate" that everyone is arguing about had crappy smooth bores that literally had trouble hitting the broad side of a barn, in essence they sucked.
Yes a sailor would take care of his equipment, and Im sure Pirates did as well, but my point still stands that bows and arrows will not corrode and fail because of the salty sea air.....well maybe the arrow heads, but thatll just make them more deadly lol
And Im not arguing that Vikings would win in a sea battle. Hell a horrible, just told 10 minutes ago how to use the ship, crew would give the vikings a serious what for, if it was a galleon vs a long boat. Simply the cannons and muskets would probably be enough to keep them at bay. Youve got to realize Vikings never SAW a gun, let alone a cannon. Just the bark from either would probably freak them out.
And what modern handgun are you talking about? There are MANY that would fail being fired at the viking armor. But again many that would plow through it as well.
And who ever it was that was going on about guns going through an entire rank of vikings? Seriously? Im guessing your knowledge goes as far as the most recent action movie youve seen. Just letting you know, people dont go flying when they get shot, and bullets do stop. Even high powered rifle rounds cant go through more then 2 people. It just cant keep its velocity after 1 person at best.
Well, I think that since pirates came from several centuries later than vikings, they would win due to better technology. Vikings look cooler though, and thats probably why they are winning.
Either that or Shadowbrand made a bunch of accounts.
There's really no contest, equipment wise. Sorry, but it's the truth. If the things vikings wore protected them from the weapons pirates used, pirates would have worn them themselves. If firearms weren't significantly better than bows and arrows, pirates would be using the bows. If spears weren't better than cutlasses for fighting ship-to-ship combat, pirates would have used spears.
Pirates could get chainmail, spears, and bows a lot easier than vikings could, they had more resources available than the average viking and the manufacturing process for these things had improved in the meantime. They didn't use these, however, nor did you see the professional European armies of the 1600s running around in fur and chainmail, or using bows and spears as their main weaponry. Why? Because it was not effective. There is no other reason why they wouldn't have done it, it was fully in their capability. The vikings, on the other hand, were not able to procure firearms for themselves, nor were decent swords readily available in their time.
Pirates are the vikings of a more technologically advanced time, they're simply the more dangerous fighter.
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
Australia (Recently ravaged by the Hive Fleet Ginger Overlord)
KingCracker wrote:
Firstly with that line of logic, I could just say that Vikings evolved into a modern military and so they win by default. Yes eventually flintlocks evolve into better weapons, but the typical "Pirate" that everyone is arguing about had crappy smooth bores that literally had trouble hitting the broad side of a barn, in essence they sucked.
Vikings evolved into what now?
Yes a sailor would take care of his equipment, and Im sure Pirates did as well, but my point still stands that bows and arrows will not corrode and fail because of the salty sea air.....well maybe the arrow heads, but thatll just make them more deadly lol
I don't know where you are getting this logic.
And what modern handgun are you talking about? There are MANY that would fail being fired at the viking armor. But again many that would plow through it as well.
Really. Like what?
And who ever it was that was going on about guns going through an entire rank of vikings? Seriously? Im guessing your knowledge goes as far as the most recent action movie youve seen. Just letting you know, people dont go flying when they get shot, and bullets do stop. Even high powered rifle rounds cant go through more then 2 people. It just cant keep its velocity after 1 person at best.
I don't know about a musket, but a cannon or 12-18 pounder gun certainly could. No question about it.
Slarg232 wrote:
Shadowbrand wrote:The extra votes are my Valkyries!
Das cheatin.
Vikings are sore losers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/28 04:46:13
Smacks wrote:
After the game, pack up all your miniatures, then slap the guy next to you on the ass and say.
Shadowbrand wrote:Not so much sore losers as hard fighters!
We have a will and stubbornness only matched by the Scots!
*Edit* Gotta admit in a boarding action or close quarters the Vikings will outfight you by a long shot.
You ever hear of a decoy ship where Pirates would lure people on to them and then shoot a flaming arrow onto it, causing it to burn eveyrone on board to death?
I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying.
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
WOTS DAT? IZ WUN OF DA LITTLE PINK FURRY GIRLS TALKIN? OI CANT SEE FROM ALL DA WAY UP ERE!
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
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