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I don't think boyz really call for a point drop. It's the other parts of the codex that need updated.

For the love of Gork and Mork and possibly Bork, give Tankbustas "Tank Hunters"!

 Ugin, the Owl King wrote:
All Orks loot vehicles. Deffskullz and Blood Axes just do it best. I don't mean to be pedantic, but Looted Wagon rules shouldn't apply to Deffskullz only. My fear is that the consensus has shifted such that a lot of players think of Looted Wagons as a Deffskull thing. Seriously, one time I posted a picture of a Blood Axe detachment with two Looted Russes, and I got multiple responses back to the effect that my detachment looked more like a Deffskullz force. This in spite of extensive kammo.

This would be tragic if it spread. I love my Blood Axes, and I can't imagine playing them without Looted Wagons. I've stood by this unit despite how bad it is (hey, it's still a fairly cheap pie plate, and it can make up its points in Beakies with some small luck and KFF/cover). But using Imperial technology (including tanks) is as much a part of traditional Blood Axe fluff as looting the battlefield is a part of Deffskull fluff. I would hate it if the Blood Axe equivalent of Chapter Tactics (which we will hopefully finally get) doesn't include Looted Wagons (especially Imperial ones), or if only Deffskullz get good rules for looting.

I agree I really do I really never said anything bad about blood axes but what you said is true.

I know you didn't, and I agree with most of your post. I'm just hyper-sensitive about Blood Axe background. They're not my only klan (I have a 1200 point Goff Kan Wall), but they're my favorite. Below is my wish listed Klan rules:

Goffs get one unit of Nobz or MANz as Troops. Skarboyz (upgrade to boyz and Ardboyz) trade furious charge for S4 (and maybe I3), small points increase.
Deffskullz get one unit of lootaz as Troops. Extended LW rules, where they can take other armies' tanks at cost with BS2.
Snakebites get immunity to poison, and Nobz get poisoned (6+) attacks. One unit of boarboyz/squigriders as Troops (these should be a regular Codex option).
Blood Axes get one unit of kommandos as Troops. Extended LW rules, like Deffskullz, but limited to Imperial vehicles. Can upgrade boyz and grots to outflank for small points increase.
Bad Moonz get one unit of MANz or Flash Gits as Troops. All BM characters and vehicles with two or more upgrades get their cheapest upgrade for free.
Evil Sunz get any number of bikes as troops, and one unit of Biker Nobz as Troops.

If anything, these are conservative. I could hope for more, sure, but at this point I'm more afraid they'll dilute out something cool or just forget about some of the better fluff.

 Ugin, the Owl King wrote:
I know you didn't, and I agree with most of your post. I'm just hyper-sensitive about Blood Axe background. They're not my only klan (I have a 1200 point Goff Kan Wall), but they're my favorite. Below is my wish listed Klan rules:

Goffs get one unit of Nobz or MANz as Troops. Skarboyz (upgrade to boyz and Ardboyz) trade furious charge for S4 (and maybe I3), small points increase.
Deffskullz get one unit of lootaz as Troops. Extended LW rules, where they can take other armies' tanks at cost with BS2.
Snakebites get immunity to poison, and Nobz get poisoned (6+) attacks. One unit of boarboyz/squigriders as Troops (these should be a regular Codex option).
Blood Axes get one unit of kommandos as Troops. Extended LW rules, like Deffskullz, but limited to Imperial vehicles. Can upgrade boyz and grots to outflank for small points increase.
Bad Moonz get one unit of MANz or Flash Gits as Troops. All BM characters and vehicles with two or more upgrades get their cheapest upgrade for free.
Evil Sunz get any number of bikes as troops, and one unit of Biker Nobz as Troops.

If anything, these are conservative. I could hope for more, sure, but at this point I'm more afraid they'll dilute out something cool or just forget about some of the better fluff.

That's awesome!

Anvildude wrote:
For the love of Gork and Mork and possibly Bork, give Tankbustas "Tank Hunters"!

Dis 'ere nob's a proppa' brainy git!
It's the only thing stopping me from filling my elite slots with boomboyz.

The Warboss, and possible Nobs, should wield the Powerclaw at Initiative 2, or even at their base Initiative.

Doesn't that kind of make us return to the same issue as in the current codex - where the whole unit lives or dies based upon the Nob?

 Charles Rampant wrote:
Doesn't that kind of make us return to the same issue as in the current codex - where the whole unit lives or dies based upon the Nob?

It could be warboss only who wields the powerclaw at Initiative 2. But anyway, this obviously shouldn't be the only change to the book, but one that would give the boss some teeth in challenges - which Orks seem to suffer with, but shouldn't based on fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I really like the idea of Stormboys being able to assault or vector-strike Fliers. Maybe they have a general vector-strike mechanic that can hit other units too? Some mechanic where Stormboys blow themselves up to cause glancing hits or wounds to a unit with their vector-strike. A unit that could assault Fliers would be pretty nasty on the battlefield.

Bird-strike-

Sacrifice 1d6 stormboyz as they fly into the engine intakes/jets/grav plates/whatever and gum up the works...

Challenges suck for orks because low I plus almost mandatory PK plus no armour sucks.

Put a warboss in a unit with a nob though, and you can still wreck face while the Nob soaks the hits. Since you can now take 4 warbosses at 2000 pts this can even work..

Not the MOST efficient way of doing business, but fun

I would like the following rule:

Knee to the happy sacs:

The Ork character delivers a low blow, reducing the opponent in the challenge to the same I step he fights on. Blows are struck simultaneously.

Orks need one rule change IMO, every turn you roll 1 D 20 and if you roll a 18-20 you role a 1 d 6 and if you get a 6 you can bring in reinforcements via the New Call of the WAAGH! special rule that allow you to bring in any number of squads and of infantry that add up to no more than 25% of the games point total.

These squads can enter the game under the reserves rule.

For fluff this would happen it could happen every turn for non-opness it would be once per game.

Need to not include a d20, as not everyone has played D&D at this point, or even knows what a d20 is. Need to keep it on d6s. Maybe require a roll of 2d6, and on double-6s (or double-5s or whatever) you get more Boyz joining the Waaagh.

For Stormboyz, I would make it slightly easier, but slightly more balanced. A unit of Stormboyz can make an Assault against any flyer within their Assault range. The flying unit suffers 1 S4 (or more, maybe have wargear to upgrade this?) hit per member of the Stormboyz unit. It gets Armor Saves as normal, taking 1W damage per failed save. A failed save inflicts 1W on the flier and costs the Stormboyz unit 1 model. A flyer that runs out of W crashes.

This represents the Stormboyz quite literally assaulting the flyer, clinging onto it, getting into fisticuffs with the crew through the windscreen, and fighting to the death as the flyer crashes into the ground.

 Psienesis wrote:
SNIP

I like the bird strike idea!

Would be fun to do but would you sacrifice a unit to kill a flyer though?

This link is pretty good.

I don't agree with certain claims the author makes. For example: "There isn't quite as much to explore and the characters aren't individually as deep, or complexly written." Overall, though, it seems pretty thoughtful.

I would love to see more of the ork psychic-ness fleshed out, probably in the form of weirdboyz. They are the most psychic race if pure numbers are concerned, they just arnt aware of it/cannot control it well. Id love to see weirdboyz have some cool powers or maybe army wide abilities (although better implemented than what ive read in the rumors).

I'd be shocked if they didn't get Pyromancy, Telekenesis and the Orky (of some kind).

Maybe a gork and a mork table, one with shooting attacks and one with army-buffing abilities. I'd really like anything that makes them more reliable than they are now. Right now, they pretty much only make back their points on accident.

I think better weirdboyz with a separate Gork and Mork table is good.

I also think Oddboyz would be nice in Elites. As discussed, SW style unit choice that could be broken up and attached to other mobz (with limitations, of course). Or, each HQ choice lets you choose an Oddboy outside of the normal FO chart?

What our army truly needs atm is combos.

Pretty much every other army out there can use Psychic Powers, allies or wargear (markerlights) to increase their power exponentially. All we can do is increase it linearly, since we have no Battle Brothers, no real Psychic Powers and very simple wargear.

As many have said, Oddboyz / Weirdboyz / Painboyz working as Sanguinary Priests or Wolf Guards would go a long way towards this.

Some weird technological artefacts would also help tremendously.

 JoeRugby wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
SNIP

I like the bird strike idea!

Would be fun to do but would you sacrifice a unit to kill a flyer though?

It's Orkz. Of course I would! If you win, you get five times the number of Boyz to mob into the WAAAGH! for the next krump.

Grot Rebels(Grotz with better guns), with a HQ and squig packs as FA choices

Less dakka more choppy.Klan tactics would be nice.I want them to improve units though not add looted tanks to deffskullz/Blood axes.Also:
Bloo paint job:Gets a save(what kind?What roll?No idea) to represent how lucky it is.
Yellow paint job(something to do with dakka?I don't know!)
Black:Some thing to show how ard it is.
Any others?

It would be nice for all boyz to get a 3+ save. Not balanced, I guess, but still nice.

You can do that.

Run BA with Ork heads.

Red paint jobz, Orky tech dreads with grapple magnets and supa-shotgunz,, Dakka tanks....

Must...Not...add... another....army.....

Da krimson barun wrote:
Less dakka more choppy.Klan tactics would be nice.I want them to improve units though not add looted tanks to deffskullz/Blood axes.Also:
Bloo paint job:Gets a save(what kind?What roll?No idea) to represent how lucky it is.
Yellow paint job(something to do with dakka?I don't know!)
Black:Some thing to show how ard it is.
Any others?

I beleive yellow makes explosions bigger so i guess that could be added to bomms and rokkit launchas. Black can be +1 toughness/strength? I don't know too XD

I really wish that burnas, lootas are troop choice.

Some sort of tweak to Flash gitz. Seriously, a decently equipped squad is somewhere in the range of 400+ points, which they are not going to retrieve in a hurry.

That's more than 3 fully dakka-equipped battle wagons. That's AV 14, more shots, reliable AP, templates, higher range and transport capacity for 3 squads of whatever you want.

I for one think that flash gitz are cool as they are, they just need their cost halved to compete with the other stuff.

And the paintjob Idea is awesome! Finally a reason to paint your vehicles something other than red.

I may offend some people but I think the fluff of blood axes is weird. The whole trading with humans is okay but what bugs me is their way of dressing. What I mean is that the commissar hats and coats look ridiculous. I expect blood axes to be ninjas with camo and silencers(reel sneaky like). In the end it is my opinion and you guys might have different thoughts.

Here is my wish list:

A feel no pain system like the Lizardmen's scaly armour system. Da bigga dey ar the tougher dey be. Boyz get a 6+, Nobz get a 5+ and Warbosses get a 4+

Choppas now add +1 strength

Cyboars!!! It solves a lot of our problems by giving us fast melee units with the advantage of armour.

Fix big gunz and make them a source of long range anti tank.

Make Walkers viable again. Add ++ saves or ITND etc.

KKF should be an Invulnerable save not a cover save and there should be a lot more ways to access these things.

Power weapons with ap 2-3 that still strike at int.

Bring burnas back into normal units and do not limit them to 1 per 10. Let a 10 ork mob have the full 3 if they want it. Also bring back the 2D6 armour pen.

Some reliable way of mitigating overwatch.

Weird boyz should work like normal pyskers. 2 tables Gork and Mork. Mix of offense and buffs. Warphead upgrades makes him a mastery level 2.

Ramshackle rule applied as a whole and ways to help da ladz survive vehicle explosions.

Squggioth or some other giant MC would be so cool.

Ranged antitank options. Orks are good at everything so it would be nice to have a chance at winning with any theme list I so choose.