Pro-life or pro-choice?

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**purplefood**

IIRC the women sued to get it...

**Krellnus**

Then perhaps we are thinking of different things?
Oh well.

**Frank&Stein**

Krellnus wrote:
Howard A Treesong wrote:
Frank&Stein wrote:
When a woman is pregnant and the man wants the baby but the woman doesn't she can get an abortion and that the end of it.
But when a man doesn't want the baby and the woman does we can still get stuck having to financially support it?

Where's our freedom of choice?

Where's your freedom to swing your fist around in the street? It stops when it meets someone's face. You don't get to impose things on people that suit you at the expense of their well being.

A man can't have equal control over whether an abortion is performed. What's the suggestion here, that the man should be able to impose an abortion on a woman and force her to go through a medical procedure against her will? There are very few occasions when people can be forced to undergo operations against their wishes, usually they'd have to be at high risk and still be ruled incapable of making the decision for themselves.

Allowing men to say 'if I don't want the baby and you won't abort, then I shouldn't have to support it' is just a douchbags charter to evade all their financial responsibilities to their children. It's hard enough getting some men to pay support after they decide to dump their pregnant girlfriend without enshrining it in law.

Because of basic biology, we are limited in how we can make and enforce our laws. Ultimately it is the woman's body that always carries the baby. It's ridiculous to see some men complaining about their lack of equality in a matter that really can't be altered biologically, considering that women face wider inequality on a much more frequent and needless basis such as equal pay in the workplace.

Hypothetical for you:
Two people, committed and loving relationship (but not necessarily married) and deciding that they aren't ready for a child use birth control. Now as we know that nothing is perfect, the birth control fails and the woman gets pregnant. Up until this point they have both had and equal say in the matters and reached some consensus.

Now the man doesn't want the child but the woman is unsure, but puts off an abortion until she makes a decision. Now putting aside medical conditions and late - term abortions, that is, assuming all goes well with the actual pregnancy, the woman get ~6 - 9 months to make a decision, does she want to keep it, not keep it, bring it to term and put it up for adoption, the man having no definative say other than "I think we shouldn't have it because of..." (and fair enough I can't control your body, only make suggestions on what you do with it.)

We will now say that ultimatley, the woman decides to keep the child and the pressure of something he is not ready for causes him to break off the relationship.

What is your opinion on the man having a "financial abortion" (for want of a better term) i.e. he signs some agreement that states broadly along the lines of not having to support the child in anyway, but recinds any and all legal rights of parentage to the child, although, when older, the child may of course seek out its father, should its mother tell it about its father. Perhaps a clause is added that if the father does change his mind after a while, he can regain his parental rights, on the condition that he starts supporting the child again?

P.S. This likely has not come out as clearly as I would like, but I hope it gets my general point across.

You put it in to words a lot better than I did, but that's exactly what I'm talking about.

**Ahtman**

You ae both right, sort of.

The women didn't want the money, but the state was suing to get him to have to pay child support.

Article

**Krellnus**

Ahhh that's the one Ahtman thanks!

**Frazzled**

poppa G wrote:
When it comes to the choice of abortion i think it's 90/10
The guy should have a little say but not the ultimate decision.

Its generally an either or situation though. This isn't a bowl of soup that can be divided. Define how you would implement 90/10?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

feeder wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
feeder wrote:
Pro-abortion. There is too many filthy, unwanted mouth-breathers already. We should work to improve our quality of life, not quantity.

You first.

I am not calling for a cull on humanity, smart guy.

I am. Bring on the Zombies!

**Monster Rain**

feeder wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:
feeder wrote:
Pro-abortion. There is too many filthy, unwanted mouth-breathers already. We should work to improve our quality of life, not quantity.

You first.

I am not calling for a cull on humanity, smart guy.

Depending on one's definition of humanity, it could be argued that you are.

There is also the question of what defines a filthy, unwanted mouth-breather and who makes that distinction. I bet we would come to different conclusions.

Frazzled wrote:

I am. Bring on the Zombies!

Nah, I'm rooting for Cthulhu.

**Frazzled**

Cthulu 2014! Why vote for the lesser evil?

**Cheesecat**

Frazzled wrote:
Cthulu 2014! Why vote for the lesser evil?

Wouldn't zombies be the lesser evil as they are more instinctual?

**Monster Rain**

I don't think you understand what he just said.

Yes, zombies are the lesser evil. That's the point.

**Cheesecat**

Monster Rain wrote:
I don't think you understand what he just said.

Yes, zombies are the lesser evil. That's the point.

Oh, OK makes sense.