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Thunderers being 100 points still doesn't excuse making them all only able to take 1 weapon and then nerfing the range of the mortar.

 mmzero252 wrote:
Thunderers being 100 points still doesn't excuse making them all only able to take 1 weapon and then nerfing the range of the mortar.

Yeah it does. They were worth more than 100 points before, now players just need to employ actual skill when using them rather than having cheap 36" artillery sit in the back all game.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:
Thunderers being 100 points still doesn't excuse making them all only able to take 1 weapon and then nerfing the range of the mortar.

Yeah it does. They were worth more than 100 points before, now players just need to employ actual skill when using them rather than having cheap 36" artillery sit in the back all game.

I could see that only if they made them battleline units as well. Right now they are just kind of..there. They have a weird synergy thing with the single weapon types, but 12" for the single mortar they get is pretty stupid. Also with single weapon types, how would they be cheap 36" artillery..? You'd get 1-2 shots at 36" at most, and that's if you camped a khemist with them like before. They could have left it at 36" and been fine, but they decided to go for overkill on the nerfs. Single weapons and that FAQ were enough.

Edit: Also..what's wrong with a shooting army having long range artillery? Just like..really curious what your misguided thought process is on that. The whole army is centered around shooting. Thunderers have an actual rule to run from combat to keep shooting. Pretty sure long range shooting fits them perfectly.

The previous warscroll is what allowed 5-mortar units to sit in the back, but a good shot at passing off a willful misinterpretation of what I said. I'm sorry that you aren't skilled enough to get good use out of a fairly pointed unit; maybe Tzeentch would be better for you since disc-Tzaangors are still undercosted.

Oh... there are quite a few nuggets fairly to severely undercosted in the new. Quite a few indeed.

OK so based on the GHB17 it doesnt appear the grudge thrower is part of dispossessed anymore, its now been moved to dwarf compendium, which means they arent allies so I cant use the dispossessed allegiance which seams TOTALLY blasphemous, however, in the AoS app, they still appear under dispossessed?

The app said I have to buy the GHB17 to update the warscrolls... is this serious? I own the GHB17 but I have to buy the in-app one to get it to update the warscrolls? Is this correct?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The previous warscroll is what allowed 5-mortar units to sit in the back, but a good shot at passing off a willful misinterpretation of what I said. I'm sorry that you aren't skilled enough to get good use out of a fairly pointed unit; maybe Tzeentch would be better for you since disc-Tzaangors are still undercosted.

Are you meaning the Skyfires or Enlightened?

Because honestly 160 is pretty fair for the Enlightened.

I'll give you that 200 for Skyfires is likely still not enough, especially given that Destiny Dice have been FaQ'd to work with random numbers of Mortal Wounds.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The previous warscroll is what allowed 5-mortar units to sit in the back, but a good shot at passing off a willful misinterpretation of what I said. I'm sorry that you aren't skilled enough to get good use out of a fairly pointed unit; maybe Tzeentch would be better for you since disc-Tzaangors are still undercosted.

I'm not sure what part of my post you ignored, but it looks like all of it as per usual. I will break this down for you to make it simple. Kharadron Overlords are a shooting army. Nerfing their range and limiting weapon options of the very limited options of units is really silly considering they were also fixing khemists. Shooting on a shooting army makes sense, you see. Long range shooting on a shooting army ALSO makes sense. Thunderers having one gun now that can shoot 36" does not make them a no skill unit. But nice try just being TFG once again.

My Blades of Khorne 2k list just took a beating. Would now be a 2220 pt list for no advantages. (Gore Pilgrims and Skull Take).
Didn't feel it was especially powerful either. Very reliant on two characters to leverage any of the serious buffs.
Oh well.

 Rezyn wrote:
OK so based on the GHB17 it doesnt appear the grudge thrower is part of dispossessed anymore, its now been moved to dwarf compendium, which means they arent allies so I cant use the dispossessed allegiance which seams TOTALLY blasphemous, however, in the AoS app, they still appear under dispossessed?

The app said I have to buy the GHB17 to update the warscrolls... is this serious? I own the GHB17 but I have to buy the in-app one to get it to update the warscrolls? Is this correct?

Hmm, my app updated and although it's under dispossessed units it lacks the keyword which is a shame.

Don't know about buying anything to update the app, mine automatically updated and I made no purchases on it.

It could be that annoying bug where you have to keep clicking. (Wish they'd fix that by now)

They might have left the units where they were just to make them easier to find for those that still want to find them. The buying things bug is still there in full force though. Just keep clicking the unit until it opens, like Baron said.

Is there a lore reason why only Nurgle rotbringers and Hosts of slaanesh can ally with each other while Tzeentch and Khorne can't ally with any other mono god factions ?

Blades of Khorne can ally with Rotbringers.
Tzeentch not having any other single God faction as allies doesn't really have any fluff background afaik.

 auticus wrote:
Oh... there are quite a few nuggets fairly to severely undercosted in the new. Quite a few indeed.

I noticed bloodthirsters went down for... No reason.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 plastictrees wrote:
My Blades of Khorne 2k list just took a beating. Would now be a 2220 pt list for no advantages. (Gore Pilgrims and Skull Take).
Didn't feel it was especially powerful either. Very reliant on two characters to leverage any of the serious buffs.
Oh well.

GW overcosted the majority of battalions this time. Though classics like Gore Pilgrims, Kunnin' Rukk, and Ghoul Patrol are still OP, ironically enough.

One of the bigger theories on the over costed battalions is that GW was trying to make them less usable in 1000 point games. Obviously nobody but GW can say for certain and it seems like a pretty dumb reason if that's the case. (Although I could see it being true because GW..)

I will say that Clan Skryre's battalion is still pretty amazingly priced for 2000 point games. A bit sad to see the Clawpacks go though. Makes Verminus a lot less appealing.

Ha, just noticed the app has old Bretonnian units mixed with the new Bretonnian updated heroes.

Wish that was a sign of things to come.

 plastictrees wrote:
Blades of Khorne can ally with Rotbringers.
Tzeentch not having any other single God faction as allies doesn't really have any fluff background afaik.

Oh that is weird since Rotbringers can't take blades of khorne, but Blade of khorne can take Rotbringers.

I find it interesting that the pretenders sub faction for slaanesh specifically mentions the ability to re-roll 1s in the shooting phase, when Slaanesh has no access to ranged units, future proofing ?

 Rydria wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
Blades of Khorne can ally with Rotbringers.
Tzeentch not having any other single God faction as allies doesn't really have any fluff background afaik.

Oh that is weird since Rotbringers can't take blades of khorne, but Blade of khorne can take Rotbringers.

I find it interesting that the pretenders sub faction for slaanesh specifically mentions the ability to re-roll 1s in the shooting phase, when Slaanesh has no access to ranged units, future proofing ?

I think Slaanesh-marked units count...? And I think the Rotbringers/DoN is a bit messed up since they are about to get a combined battletome (presumably).

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 plastictrees wrote:
Blades of Khorne can ally with Rotbringers.
Tzeentch not having any other single God faction as allies doesn't really have any fluff background afaik.

Oh that is weird since Rotbringers can't take blades of khorne, but Blade of khorne can take Rotbringers.

I find it interesting that the pretenders sub faction for slaanesh specifically mentions the ability to re-roll 1s in the shooting phase, when Slaanesh has no access to ranged units, future proofing ?

I think Slaanesh-marked units count...? And I think the Rotbringers/DoN is a bit messed up since they are about to get a combined battletome (presumably).

There are no slaanesh marked ranged units though, slaves to darkness don't have any ranged units and I don't think brayherds have marks (I left my grand alliance book at my friends so I can't check)

That does make sense on the rotbringers, it also explains why daemons of nurgle have no allies at the moment (if they are going to get rolled into a single faction soon)

Marauder Horsemen can take javelins (and work quite well with the Slaanesh playstyle). Obviously the rule was included for them!

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The previous warscroll is what allowed 5-mortar units to sit in the back, but a good shot at passing off a willful misinterpretation of what I said. I'm sorry that you aren't skilled enough to get good use out of a fairly pointed unit; maybe Tzeentch would be better for you since disc-Tzaangors are still undercosted.

Are you meaning the Skyfires or Enlightened?

Because honestly 160 is pretty fair for the Enlightened.

I'll give you that 200 for Skyfires is likely still not enough, especially given that Destiny Dice have been FaQ'd to work with random numbers of Mortal Wounds.

Destiny dice have been faqd to NOT work with random mortal wounds.

You're right, I read that wrong.
Ah well, thankfully I haven't played yet so I didn't get a chance to accidentally cheat.

Elves got a bit better with some actual Allegiance Abilities. Darkling Covens, for example, can have their elf warriors (Bleakshwords, Dreadspears, Darkshards) count the models in other elf warrior units within 6" when checking for unit abilities. So if you had 10 man units of each within 6" of each other all 3 count as having 30 models for triggering their special unit abilities.

Wanders had some nice Artifacts from what I remember, they can also retreat and shoot.

The Times of War rules are waaay better then they were in the Scenario books and the rules for the Realms of Shadow and Light are really interesting.

Getting the Special Addition was totally worth it

Honestly I felt the Time of War rules were lackluster, they are too imbalanced out of the gate to be used without a lot of extra work to strip away the bad parts and keep the good, and that's a shame because I was most excited for special "realm rules" to actually make battles in AOS feel like they were in a different realm.

BomBomHotdog wrote:
Elves got a bit better with some actual Allegiance Abilities. Darkling Covens, for example, can have their elf warriors (Bleakshwords, Dreadspears, Darkshards) count the models in other elf warrior units within 6" when checking for unit abilities. So if you had 10 man units of each within 6" of each other all 3 count as having 30 models for triggering their special unit abilities.

Wanders had some nice Artifacts from what I remember, they can also retreat and shoot.

The Times of War rules are waaay better then they were in the Scenario books and the rules for the Realms of Shadow and Light are really interesting.

Getting the Special Addition was totally worth it

Darkling covens have the new Battle Brew artifact; a weapon that gets +1 attack for the rest of the game if the bearer causes wounds in the combat phase. It stacks.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Marauder Horsemen can take javelins (and work quite well with the Slaanesh playstyle). Obviously the rule was included for them!

After reading it again, it doesn't restrict the ability to slaanesh marked models, so ungor raiders could be useful, is there no restriction on models gaining allegiance abilities ?

Edit: Marauder Horsemen and Ungor raiders already re-roll hit rolls of 1 with there shooting just from there warscroll basic abilities.

Just bought the book through the app. Good to see Varanguard have been reduced to 300 points. Now you can run an Everchosen army of Archaon and 3 Varanguard units and have 400 points left over for allies! Not exactly a good objectives army, but I could see it being fun to run if you have the models.

 Rydria wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Marauder Horsemen can take javelins (and work quite well with the Slaanesh playstyle). Obviously the rule was included for them!

After reading it again, it doesn't restrict the ability to slaanesh marked models, so ungor raiders could be useful, is there no restriction on models gaining allegiance abilities ?

Edit: Marauder Horsemen and Ungor raiders already re-roll hit rolls of 1 with there shooting just from there warscroll basic abilities.

Obviously, should the icon bearer of the marauder horsemen be slain they need not worry.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Marauder Horsemen can take javelins (and work quite well with the Slaanesh playstyle). Obviously the rule was included for them!

After reading it again, it doesn't restrict the ability to slaanesh marked models, so ungor raiders could be useful, is there no restriction on models gaining allegiance abilities ?

Edit: Marauder Horsemen and Ungor raiders already re-roll hit rolls of 1 with there shooting just from there warscroll basic abilities.

Obviously, should the icon bearer of the marauder horsemen be slain they need not worry.

You need 10 horsemen alive for the slaanesh ability, so there is a higher chance of losing the re-roll ability from the allegiance than losing it from the banner.

 Rydria wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Rydria wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Marauder Horsemen can take javelins (and work quite well with the Slaanesh playstyle). Obviously the rule was included for them!

After reading it again, it doesn't restrict the ability to slaanesh marked models, so ungor raiders could be useful, is there no restriction on models gaining allegiance abilities ?

Edit: Marauder Horsemen and Ungor raiders already re-roll hit rolls of 1 with there shooting just from there warscroll basic abilities.

Obviously, should the icon bearer of the marauder horsemen be slain they need not worry.

You need 10 horsemen alive for the slaanesh ability, so there is a higher chance of losing the re-roll ability from the allegiance than losing it from the banner.

Well if the icon bearer was specifically picked out and slain by an ability that targets individual models, it would matter!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 EnTyme wrote:
Just bought the book through the app. Good to see Varanguard have been reduced to 300 points. Now you can run an Everchosen army of Archaon and 3 Varanguard units and have 400 points left over for allies! Not exactly a good objectives army, but I could see it being fun to run if you have the models.

If you stick to mortals of one god you can run pretty much whatever you want on Everchosen using plaguebound, fatebound, bloodbound, or pleasurebound. The first three were already strong then got reduced cost in GHB2 even.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 auticus wrote:
Oh... there are quite a few nuggets fairly to severely undercosted in the new. Quite a few indeed.

Ok... So it wasn't until I started going through the points in detail that I realized what you meant. Things are way worse than I thought.