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It sucks that they've duplicated the sins of the Index for the Drukhari entries in the Eldar dex.

I'm hoping they get it right in our own dex, but repeating the mistake here doesn't fill me with faith.

Valrak's latest rumours suggest a new edition by the end of the year, and while I hate that too, maybe it will be better than this.

Tyel wrote:
But when (IIRC - I may be getting editions confused here) Hydra Gauntlets were rerolls to wound and I think Razorflails were rerolls to hit...you've got to feel "why bother"? I mean its still a small number of low S low AP attacks. In a Kill Team/Necromunda skirmish game where each model can forge a narrative then sure go nuts. In 40k? Its just noise lost across potentially hundreds of models and thousands of rolled dice. So I don't think it matters that much. I'm happy enough with it just being a modelling choice - much like Tyranid Warriors.

This is fair. Though, as with so many things, it circles back to the issue of 'the current rules suck, so we should just scrap it entirely rather than improving it'.

I mean, even if you don't want rules for all three of the special Wych weapons, could we not at least have one upgraded profile that any/all of them represent?

Tyel wrote:
Also to put the DE hat on, seeing Eldar players lament the power variance in their codex always feels a bit rich.
Cue 7th edition. "No you don't understand, Wraith Knights, Scatbikes, Warp Spiders, arguably still Wave Serpents are 10 or 11/10. But Storm Guardians also feature in the codex and they are 3/10".
"Okay - but I'm playing DE. My whole codex apart from maybe Reaver spam only reaches 5/10 at best. Same for Tyranids outside flying Hive Tyrant spam. Orks and Guard are in a diabolical state etc"

On this point, it's also much easier to justify taking some bad/mediocre units that you like when the rest of your list is strong enough to keep you in the game.

goodman111 wrote:

Lets be honest.... after looking everything over, Craft Worlds Eldar got hit hard!
Some of our best combos were either de-buffed, or completely removed! Several "prominent" stratagems are now locked behind detachments with seemingly no rhyme or reason for it. I hate comparing past editions, but in 9th our bread and butter was fire and fade, 3 linking fire prisms, and Baharroth with10 swooping hawks jumping out right "After" shooting. We lost 2 phoenix lords, feelnopain on fugen, 1 toughness on our wraith units, BOTH our 3+ inv save units! Wraith guard nerffed too 5 man squads! My gosh darn warp gate!!!

Not sure what you're on. Also, 2 Phoenix Lords? Only Karandras is missing from the codex.

Shining Spears finally became good, Dire Avengers are a legit menace now, the Lhykhis-Spider blob exists now, Banshees are much better into their preferred targets, Reapers got a pip of strength, and that's just what I can think of re: the Aspect Warriors.

 vipoid wrote:
On this point, it's also much easier to justify taking some bad/mediocre units that you like when the rest of your list is strong enough to keep you in the game.

Yeah - I mean we saw that at the start of 10th. Eldar Lists would generally spend 80-90% of their points on a certain list of units - and the rest of their points were a free (or at least flexible) pick.
To the point where there was a joke that top players had a bet going to get every Eldar unit into a tournament winning list.

There's a danger of becoming a weird White Knight on this - but I think GW is getting better at balance than they used to be. If a unit is off by 20 points its not the end of the world to include one. Whereas in previous editions you had units which seemed to be playing a different game and couldn't interact with units at the top of the meta.

I think the negative side of it is that this codex really highlights the breadth of Eldar as a faction. And DE look like a narrow, mutilated thing by comparison.

But then I've always thought Eldar were kind of special in that regard. Space Marines and Orks have comparably large rosters, but its hard I think to get the variety of build. I keep have this fantasy of some "all the dakka" Ork list, but I don't think even with the Takitikal Brigade it objectively works.

Whereas here you can spam Guardians, Aspect Warriors, Wraths or Jetbikes - and it feels like you'd at least be "okay".

Tuesday can't come fast enough- I want Goonhammer's Crusade review. I'm curious to see whether they've improved the Path system; whether they keep the Harlequin specific content, and what they've done for Ynarri content. I'd also like to see them through some Requisitions or Relics toward Corsairs.

 PenitentJake wrote:
Tuesday can't come fast enough- I want Goonhammer's Crusade review. I'm curious to see whether they've improved the Path system; whether they keep the Harlequin specific content, and what they've done for Ynarri content. I'd also like to see them through some Requisitions or Relics toward Corsairs.

The Crusade rules are floating around the web - though not GH's summary yet.

Ynnari get a requisition to manifest the Yncarne after you lose a battle if you have Yvraine in your roster. Lets you add the Yncarne for free (without counting towards Supply Limit) until you finish your current Guiding Fate.

Harlequins get their own set of Battle Traits and a couple exclusive relics.

Nothing for Corsairs - but that might show up in White Dwarf after the new Corsair units get released (hopefully and eventually).

I have a hard time reading the leaked documents- the page glare and curvature in photos combined with either small images, or those that distort a bit when you blow them up... I usually prefer to wait.

But' it sounds like the performances that Harlies used to have are gone, which is a shame because they were my favourite part of the Crusade content from 9th.

Having the Yncarne join as a wandering "brute unit" is interesting, but there was a whole subsystem for them in 9th, though I found it weak. Ynarri are a weird faction for Crusade since the only actual Ynarri models are named, and therefore can't progress... And the army literally cannot be fielded without them because there's no generic leader who is allowed to be a Warlord.

The other thing that I might be able to count on is White Dwarf: they've put out excellent Crusade content so far for Kroot and Sisters, and the Genestealer Cult stuff is good too... So they may fill in any gaps the codex leaves.

I suspect I'm going to have to house rule the heck out of this thing to make it work in a campaign if these factions are in. For sure we'll have Asuryanni, Drukhari and Corsairs involved, but Ynarri and the 'Quins might not need to be a part of the narrative.

Played a 2000 point game vs Salamanders. I didn't take an overly competitive list but things I wanted to see how it performed and how the new Battle Focus works. I used the Aspect Host detachment.

Asurmen and 10 Dire Avengers are really good. Keep the Wave Serpent protected a bit so they can jump back in.

5 Fire Dragons. I put them in a Falcon and utilized Rapid Ingress to ensure they get in Melta range. Opponent used Smoke which does make a difference. I first hit the tank with a War Walker to gain additional AP making AoC a bit useless. They destroyed a medium tank but barely as Smoke mattered. Mulling this over.

Dark Reapers and Maugan Ra in a Falcon. Not sure about Maugan Ra but he is only 100 points. I like this unit a lot and War Walkers giving them an additional AP is solid. In Aspect Host, I spent 1 CP so they get back into a Falcon.

Autarch with Scorpions. Hits pretty well on the charge but then the unit is wrecked.

Harlequins. A block of 10 charging puts out a solid number of Mortal Wounds.

Brightlances. I mixed up my weapons on my vehicles so see if they are worth it. Just stick to Brightlances when you have the option. Shame.

Crimson Hunter. I like it. It has the Aspect Warrior keyword so you can reroll 1s to hit or wound in the Aspect detachment. I think 160 points feels right for the LOS perk with 2 Brightlances and a Pulse Laser.

I've been facing Whirlwinds lately and with Aeldari, this will be a huge concern. New IG will likely showcase some indirect fire. And the mirror match may have indirect fire. For me, this is a factor as things like Eldrad with Guardians and MSU Aspect Warriors are very vulnerable.

Still learning but did find some units that will stay in my army.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Were there powergamer Eldar players? Yes. Of course there were. But there were also just…Eldar Players, forced to playing one particular list, as otherwise they’d get their arse kicked.
.

Yeah, but that is like for everyone. With the difference that eldar optimal builds are, more often then not more powerful then what other players can take. Even small things the codex does better then other. For example the stormlance doesn't allow people to run outridders as troops, nor does it buff the bikes or make them good. The "wright" detachment allows wright stuff to be troops. etc. Those are not mind breaking Early edition game breaking rules, but eldar are just given them like that. For marines you can't have troop terminators or bikes, and there is more people who want to play those armies, then all eldar.

What is nice that the codex is nothing like the early index. Great thing. because that is not how eldar codex were in 8th and 9th. And there is a lot of detachments, like a lot a lot, and there is no only one is actualy playable, or you should only play this one specific craftworld, because everything else is just worse. But always eldar players find the state of 50% win rates and just a good codex, or even a very good codex, not good enough.

Still codex has everything rules, stats, and if points don't cripple it, it will be very good for end of 10th ed.

We point updates!! for the most part they make sense. -30/-60 points on warp spiders and Wraith knight really got me exited!

here are the changes, remember if i dont have 2 numbers for squad sizes you need to double the point change if you run 10 units, 15 units ect.

Asurmen +20
Autarch same
wayleapers -35!
Baharroth -10
viodreavers unchanged
flyer same
D cannon -10
dark reaper s +5
jester unchanged
dire avengers +5
Eldrad unchanged!
falon unchanged
farseer -10!
skyrunner -10
fire dragons +10 90/200
fire prim -10!
fugen -10
defenders unchanged
flyer unchanged
banshee -20! nice
jain zar -15
new warp spider lord is 120
ra -15
night spinner -20
rangers 55
shadow waever support 75
shadowseer unchanged
shinning spears +30
sround runners uncahgned
solitaire 115
spiritseer same
striking scorp +5/+15
halwks unchanged
troup +25 ouch!
master +20
vibro +60 total
voidweaver -10
viper -10
war walkers -15
warlock unchanged
sky runner -10
warp spider -30 wow!
wave serpent +5
whraith gaurd 170 guard went down -10!
Wraith knight - 60!! woo!
lord -5
The Visarch 90
The Yncarne 250
Ynnari Archon 75
Ynnari Incubi 75/150
Ynarri Kabalite Warriors 110
Ynnari Raider 80
Ynnari Reavers 65/130
Ynnari Succubus 45
Ynnari Venom 70
Ynnari Wyches 90
Yvraine 100


and yes they have removed all the non phoenix lords that should be lords. : ( sad face.

Thanks for the points. Are these the digital or from the book? I did not see the digital anywhere.

I knew Shining Spears would go up, but 30 for 3 is a lot. Also I did not see windriders on here, are they the same? Also Scorpions going up is surprising as they lost dev wounds.

Some of them are changing because the role of the unit is significantly changing too - Wayleaper has gone from lone op to being attachable to spiders & hawks so can't do the lone op shenanigans anymore.

Its old news, and true for a variety of twin-linked things - but I hate that twinned shuriken catapults are just a shuriken catapult with rerolls to wound.

I've liked that (the reality was often... questionable) if you squinted there was an argument for "Shuriken catapult jetbikers" (as Isha intended)- due to the extra movement of being assault. With 4 shots, you weren't a bazillion miles off the performance of scatter lasers or shuriken cannons. But now its just mathematically doing about half damage into anything vaguely normal.

A little meta dependent - but spam Shuriken Cannons and move on.

Really hope in 11th they review some of the weapon stats across the game. (Or Idk, the DE Codex - come on GW you know you are listening.)

I’d like to see them go back to 1 in 3 heavy weapons on the bikes, with the twin cats on the rest.

But I’m curmudgeonly old fashioned like that.

Glad to see that we can still have just a single War Walker as minimum. The meta is all well and good but I'm not a fan of odd models.

I just watched the premium game on Table Top Tactics, and if anyone is a member I highly recommend watching it (if not you should join, they do great content for relatively cheap monthly fee, although I am a life time member). Lawrence shows exactly why Eldar will be a very powerful army in the hands of experienced players with all the move shenanigans they have. Someone earlier on this thread commented that the Eldar are the epitome of "movement wins games". Well, movement does win games, period. Watching and experienced player like Lawrence use the battle focus and the Sear Council movement tricks shows just how disruptive and game changing such tricks are. Reactive moves are probably one of the best rules in the game, and most of the Eldar datasheets have enough raw power on them that you don't necessarily need a bunch of damage buffs from the detachment/Army rule. Yes, the old rules were more simple, as they were basically "my big guns are super efficient, and I can guarantee some results, especially [devastating wounds]", but when used correctly the new rules are going to be much better. Yes also, it is going to suck for new players, as Eldar will required a lot of mental load and foresight thinking, which I am cool with as not every army should be simplistic, and some should have some complexity to them, Eldar being a classic one.

I think that the Sear Council, Warhost, and Aspect detachments will be very good. I think the Guardian, Jet bike and Wraith could be very good as well, I am not sure yet. I am super excited to play this book, I don't think I have been this excited to play a new book in a long while (like 6th edition Eldar).

If anyone gets games in I would love to see posts on them and get some more idea of how the army is working on the table, not theory hammer, and when I finally get the book and get to play I will post.

Also should we start a new Tactics type thread for 10th Codex Eldar? (Sorry I use Eldar as I have been playing since second, and they will always be Eldar to me, lol).

What army right now, if played at a serious or normal level isn't hard to master for a new player. Even the simple one dimensional ones are hard to play. Marines, especialy non ultramarines, are a slog to play and if not build correctly they just don't work. Same goes for CSM, the more themed the marine the hard to play properly and to learn, because a lot of games right now end with "you did mistake X and you are not playing a hard counter to me. Welcome to the 90 to 30 zone". And the more elite it gets with stuff like knights, custodes or GK the worse it gets.

What eldar did get is a lot of quality of life options, not even strickt power ones, that let you play the army you want. There are a ton of marine players who would like to play a DW or terminator army, but they can't. WS got the kick in the nads treatment. It is a rare thing for a codex to come out and then keep (orks and GSC are good example of that) a good way of playing with more then one detachment. And eldar somehow got 8 lol and didn't get BA/Ad mecha initial points treatment. But in the end saying that an eldar codex is full of powerful options, is like saying that IF are yellow.

That's why they should make a starter box called "Angron and the World Eaters."

The booklet can simply read:

Point towards enemy. Move, Advance, charge. Repeat as Necessary.

The 'starter list' for my Iyanden:

1x Farseer (painted)
1x Spiritseer (painted)

1x Guardian Defender Squad (fully painted)

5 Dark Reapers (1/5 painted)
5 Dire Avengers (Fully painted)
5 Howling Banshees (already 4/5 painted)

5 Wraithguard (fully painted)
6 Windriders (currently on the desk waiting for primer)
1 Wraithlord (fully painted)

I wish the detachments were more like the SM style where one could take the Iyanden-themed detachment and still have some of the stratagems affect other units than Wraiths. As it is, I'm going Warhost. That said, I'm very pleased with what I've seen of the 'dex and it looks like it'll be a lot of fun to drive.

 RaptorusRex wrote:
The 'starter list' for my Iyanden:

1x Farseer (painted)
1x Spiritseer (painted)

1x Guardian Defender Squad (fully painted)

5 Dark Reapers (1/5 painted)
5 Dire Avengers (Fully painted)
5 Howling Banshees (already 4/5 painted)

5 Wraithguard (fully painted)
6 Windriders (currently on the desk waiting for primer)
1 Wraithlord (fully painted)

I wish the detachments were more like the SM style where one could take the Iyanden-themed detachment and still have some of the stratagems affect other units than Wraiths. As it is, I'm going Warhost. That said, I'm very pleased with what I've seen of the 'dex and it looks like it'll be a lot of fun to drive.

Looks cool. You don't have any Warwalkers? They seem really really good. I love the banshees. They are going to be good in that dex for awhile

 xeen wrote:
Thanks for the points. Are these the digital or from the book? I did not see the digital anywhere.

I knew Shining Spears would go up, but 30 for 3 is a lot. Also I did not see windriders on here, are they the same? Also Scorpions going up is surprising as they lost dev wounds.

wind riders 80/160 - looks like max squad size 6 now.

I agree new forum needed with new name maybe on the 1st of February, there is a forum for posting lists I think already.
no harm in posting them else where though, more people might see it on the main one.

The only thing I'd change with the detachments is replacing the mantle of wisdom enhancement - the army doesn't need both rules at once on one unit. And I want proper Exarchs so:

The Living Shrines - 100pts
When the shrines go to war, the living embodiments of their philosophy march with them, ancient exarchs of unnatural skill.

Choose 2 Exarchs in your force, each gains 2 wounds, improves WS/BS by 1 and is considered to possess a shrine token only they can use, once per battle phase.

Picked me up the Autarch set yesterday, the one with the Warp Spider pack.

Any thoughts on an advisable loadout?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Picked me up the Autarch set yesterday, the one with the Warp Spider pack.

Any thoughts on an advisable loadout?

I know it sounds trite, but magnets.

With the new book he/she is not a lone operative, but joins either spider or hawk squads. What are your plans for those squads? If you are going to hang back and shoot with hawks, a long range gun would be nice. If up in someone’s face with spiders, might want fusion?

CC toys look like they have jobs to do, which do you want? I like the glave, but arguments can be made.

I’ve honestly no idea. But a Fusion Gun for accompanying Spiders does sound like an idea.

It's quite easy to magnetise for an Eldar kit; I just magnetised the gun arm and backpack as I would usually use the polearm, and have an old metal one if I need one with a sword and fusion gun.

Can’t be bothered magnetising to be honest.

Think I’ll go Polearm, Warp Jump, Banshee lid and Fusion Gun.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Can’t be bothered magnetising to be honest.

Think I’ll go Polearm, Warp Jump, Banshee lid and Fusion Gun.

Looks like the hat is purely cosmetic these days, so you can go with whatever look cooler.

That’s useful to know, as whilst a Banshee Mask is damned handy, this one looks daft.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oooh. Though I do have spare Scorpion Exarch lids if that one isn’t cosmetic?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That’s useful to know, as whilst a Banshee Mask is damned handy, this one looks daft.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oooh. Though I do have spare Scorpion Exarch lids if that one isn’t cosmetic?

From the leaked info I have, hats are not even mentioned. They have 0 game effect.

Especially for the wayleaper (jump pack/wings) autarch.

For the foot autarch, If they join a Banshee squad they gets fights first. If they join a scorpion squad they get infiltrate, stealth, and scout 7”. But there is no way to give them a banshee mask for fights first if you want to say attach them to a squad of storm guardians.