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...Are they worth it ? , almost every Ork list I have read doesn't include them, and I was just curious as to why hardly no one plays them ?

or maybe I'm wrong and people do play them and I have just never seen it

People choose to run Deffkoptas instead of the Stormboys. IMO Deffkoptas are a good anti tank, and stormboys, for me, still haven't found that great nich to use them.

Can they not be used to almost the same effect as assault marines? i.e. get in close and fast and destroy units that suck in CC ?

They can, but people aren't really running many assault marines these days either.

The problem is that everyone is meched up. There aren't a lot of people running armies with units that suck in CC out in the open.

So, against a mech army, you can close quickly, take a bunch of swings against a tank that you'll need to roll '6's to hit. You'll bunch up to do this, and then whatever was in that tank (or that tank and other nearby tanks) will get out and kill you.

The armies that have guys out in the open can generally throw a cheap screen out, so that you assault the cheap screen, wipe it out, and then they get to shoot you. Either that, or they're good at assault. Stormboyz charging a unit of bloodcrushers isn't a good prospect for the stormboyz. Even with the charge, they're most likely going to lose the combat, and take more hits due to wound allocation.

In short, the metagame environment isn't beneficial to either stormboyz or assault marines at the moment. You're better off with twice as many boyz than you are giving them jump packs.

Redbeard wrote:They can, but people aren't really running many assault marines these days either.

The problem is that everyone is meched up. There aren't a lot of people running armies with units that suck in CC out in the open.

So, against a mech army, you can close quickly, take a bunch of swings against a tank that you'll need to roll '6's to hit. You'll bunch up to do this, and then whatever was in that tank (or that tank and other nearby tanks) will get out and kill you.

The armies that have guys out in the open can generally throw a cheap screen out, so that you assault the cheap screen, wipe it out, and then they get to shoot you. Either that, or they're good at assault. Stormboyz charging a unit of bloodcrushers isn't a good prospect for the stormboyz. Even with the charge, they're most likely going to lose the combat, and take more hits due to wound allocation.

In short, the metagame environment isn't beneficial to either stormboyz or assault marines at the moment. You're better off with twice as many boyz than you are giving them jump packs.

Thanks for the Info , Very helpful indeed , also I just checked out You're Ork army ...Very impressive stuff ! , really really well painted , it got me very excited about starting my Ork army !

To add another point, stormboyz are 12 points per model, and really only about equal to a 6 point slugga boy. The speed is very nice, and my group typically fairs well enough to merit their price, but they really just aren't as effective as throwing the boyz in a wagon. 20 sluggas in a wagon with a deff rolla have:

- Same combat statistics

- Better anti-vehicle (courtesy of the deff rolla)

- Lower cost (comes out 10 points cheaper)

- Longer charge range (27" vs. 24")

- Higher survivability

Battle Wagon full of boyz is superior in every way. Unless you have some devious scheme in mind that is going to tie up all of your heavy support (3 groups of burnas in wagons, anyone?), there's no reason not to go the other route.

Stormboyz can make a good supplemental tag along to your army, and against a lot of things such as Tau and Guard, it doesn't really matter how many of them actually make it to the opponent. If they aren't shot off the table (and they rarely are prior to hitting a target with 21 wounds being difficult to clear out), the PK by itself can win a combat as long as you are throwing them at the right target.

So ... its handy to have a Unit or two of Stormboyz ready to put on the table if you'r playing TAU or Guard ?

I'm not sure if I'm right or not but in a game of DOW you cant put mech onto the table in the first turn can you ? .. so if I'm ever playing either tau or Guard in a game of DOW they might come in handy ? ... again I'm not 100% sure on that as I'v never played a Game ... so if I am wrong please let me know.

Ah... Stormboyz... how I hate to love thee...

Stormboyz are a fickle unit. Their stats are identical to basic choppa/slugga boyz, but at twice the cost.

The actual advantages to them are few:
1) They move fast - 14-24" per turn (if running or assaulting that turn).
2) They can deep strike.
3) They can bring Boss Zagstrukk with them.

The disadvantages are:
1) They're expensive. For every two Stormboyz, you could have a cheapish Nob. Guess who wins that fight? On the other hand, you can trade 1 in for two regular (scoring) Boyz.
2) They take casualties from their extra movement -- Not really a big deal, they lose an average of 1 per game.
3) Can't get reliable saves -- No 'ard Boyz option, and you'll lose about 18% of the squad each time you jump them into or out of terrain, so no real cover saves either.
4) Can't board transports -- No saving a killpoint by loading the last couple survivors into a battlewagon or the like.
5) They can bring Boss Zagstrukk with them. (INAT specifies the d3 casualties from a charge on the turn they deepstrike count towards combat res, and he loses his PK after round 1).
6) Like any Jump Infantry, they're vulnerable to being Lashed into terrain.

By the numbers, Stormboyz just don't make sense. A squad of 12 stormboyz with a Nob can charge 19-24" from where they started that turn. A squad of 12 Boyz with a Nob in a RPJ Trukk can charge roughly 21.75" (13" Trukk move, 2" deployment, roughly .75" base size, 6" charge) from the trukk's edge at any given turn, 22.75"-27.75" on the turn you declare your "Waaagh!!", has just as many attacks, same saves, etc, you get the Trukk (and its big shoota) to use for other tasks, and it's 32 points cheaper. The only thing that potentially makes the Stormboyz more useful then the Trukk boyz is that they can't be slowed down by having the vehicle destroyed.

Also, like has been pointed out before, while Stormboyz are fast, Deffkoptas are faster. Turn 1 assault faster, actually, thanks to their scout moves. 24" turbo boost scout move + 12" jetbike move + 6" charge = 40" effective charge range on turn 1. Nobody is safe from that charge. Discounting the effects of terrain and intervening models, two separate deffkoptas at the front of a pitched battle deployment zone on a standard 4x8 table can, if I remember my trig correctly correctly, threaten all but about 9 square inches on the entire table (less than the size of any transport vehicle, which is probably what you'll want to charge anyway).

On the other hand, though, there's a bit of a psychological effect to them. Some players forget how large their charge range really is, so hiding them behind a building in a cityfight can end up making a nasty surprise for an unsuspecting foe. Other players either fear their mobility, or think that they're just more dangerous than they actually are, and change their entire battle plan to avoid their area of influence or put them on the top of their target priority list.

Overall, I think they're a unit worth playing with for fun. Not competitively. But every once in a while, a watered down list is needed...

Malecus wrote:Overall, I think they're a unit worth playing with for fun. Not competitively. But every once in a while, a watered down list is needed...

Agreed on all points. A fun, orky unit with limited usefulness (over other choices) and no "must have" factor. Last time I played orks (3rd Ed., before my restart now), I used them all the time. Now, mostly for fun games and sentimental reasons, though they still find some glory from time to time.

One tactic I saw a guy use at Ard Boyz was run a small unit of Storm boyz (6-9) with a Warboss on a bike. Any wounds the unit recieved he just killed off stormboyz. He was able to deliver the warboss unscathed into my lines. Not saying this is the best use of the points, but just an interesting idea that I thought was pretty clever.

I guess you could do the same with Deffkoptas, but you lose the "scout" ability.

I do my best to run 10x to 15x deff koptas. I am almost always popping one or two vehicles every turn. Just remember to try and keep them out of assault. They never usually fair well unless up against Tau or crons. The best part is that the models are dirt cheap on ebay so you can field a crazt amount for Apoc formations. I also run gutzmek so i got about 24x bike worth of troops and working on those nob bikers now. I do have 15x stormboyz and with zagstrukk; has been an epic failure. Either you scatter to close to something trying to get into assault range or are left out in open and get shot. Plus his unit is usually losing minis too.

Stormboyz fit in with a Kult of Speed army.

When you have your troops choices full of fast moving units (boys with a nob inside a trukk), stormboys fit in very well - moving at the same speed, keeping pace, getting cover, adding bodies to the fast moving mob.

Stormboyz are fun if you're playing on a smaller table size, which due I am due to all the Yuletide paperwork etc... I'd only take them when I've got a good chance of a first turn assault. In other situations I find them to be an average unit that lacks any form of synergy with other Ork units, too expensive to be a disposable screen, too small to survive in the open or to bog down melee squad.