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We just wrapped up our league at the local store. My Vulkan list smashed its way to 1st place, waaagh! Problem is, I can't play the same list twice. So I'm changing a few things.


Let me know what you think. This is sort of an experiment. Not a new one, but a semispam of Razorbacks and cheap tac squads, trying to fit cheap crap in here wherever possible.

HQ

Chaplain Cassius: 125


Troops

Tac Squad: 90
Las-plas Razorback: 75
Total: 165

Tac Squad: 90
TL-las Razorback: 75
Total: 165

Tac Squad: 90
TL-las Razorback: 75
Total: 165

Elites

6 TH/SS Assault Terminators: 240

Land Raider Crusder dedicated transport w/ Multimelta: 260

Fast Attack

2x MM / HF Land Speeders: 140

2x MM / HF Land Speeders: 140




This leaves me with 100 points for either:

Whirlwind and extra armor on the Raider (I don't like this)

A Librarian w/ Nullzone and Avenger in the LR (I like this a lot for MEQs)

2 MM Attack Bikes (I like this for Mech guard and whatnot)

5 Sniper Scouts, camo cloaks, missile launcher (I like this for nids, and other MC-heavy armies. That's about it)

Just about every time I don't take a Librarian with Null Zone, I regret it.

Just yesterday I charged a Nob Squad with 5 TH/SS Termies. I hit with 5 attacks(boo) and wounded with 4 of those. My opponent allocated wounds and then made all four 5+ saves. I'd like to think that Null Zone would have helped with that considerably.

Monster Rain wrote:Just about every time I don't take a Librarian with Null Zone, I regret it.

Just yesterday I charged a Nob Squad with 5 TH/SS Termies. I hit with 5 attacks(boo) and wounded with 4 of those. My opponent allocated wounds and then made all four 5+ saves. I'd like to think that Null Zone would have helped with that considerably.

It's funny, I hardly ever null-zone it. Usually against MEQs I just pop that AP3 flamer template. But against harder units, like *other* TH/SS Terminators, it makes a lot of sense. Plus having the Chaplain in there should help with the "I only hit 5 times!" shenanegans.

I was trying to get away from the LR filled with ridicuously killy stuff. Kitted out with both Chaplain and Librarian, it's literally half my army's points. But against MEQs, it's worth every point. Nothing like watching a whole slew of expensive Marines go down the toilet to Avenger.

I particularly like Barbecuing Khorne Berserkers with Avenger. It's always a priceless look on an opponent's face when you wipe out 150 points worth of Cult Marines with one template.

I'd go with either a Librarian or the Scouts. You're a little light on troops and pinning a unit can be a pretty nice thing!

i like mixing up some Lightning Claw Terminators with Cassius. Really nice getting rerolls to hit and rerolls to wound with the claws. For the same price you could get some ass cannons on your razorbacks making them a bit more flexible. I personally never ran 5 man tactical squads, giving up a free heavy weapon and special weapon seems silly. But I can understand the strat your using might work

General_Chaos wrote:i like mixing up some Lightning Claw Terminators with Cassius. Really nice getting rerolls to hit and rerolls to wound with the claws. For the same price you could get some ass cannons on your razorbacks making them a bit more flexible. I personally never ran 5 man tactical squads, giving up a free heavy weapon and special weapon seems silly. But I can understand the strat your using might work

I guess that's why it's an experimental list. I used to feel the same way about the heavy weapon but then I did the math:

10 Tac Marines in a Rhino: 205 w/ free missile launcher.

5 Tac Marines in a TL-Las Razorback: 165, no free ML. MUCH better weapon, though. And you can move 6 and shoot it.



My beef with Rhino-castling is that you're paying more points for an immobile thing. You're paying a lot. 205 points for 1 ML shot every turn while that thing sits back on the objective?




Don't get me wrong, it has its advantages. 5 Tactical Marines die pretty easily. On the other hand, 10 die pretty easily too, and it's easier to hide 5 Tactical Marines out of LOS if the transport *does* get nuked.

For a couple points more, you can field 3x Razorbacks and combat squads versus 2 Tac squads, all kitted out, in Rhinos.

Tac Squad: 90
Las-plas Razorback: 75
Total: 165

Tac Squad: 90
TL-las Razorback: 75
Total: 165

Tac Squad: 90
TL-las Razorback: 75
Total: 165

Looks a bit crappy to me.
Tacticals should be the back bone of an SM army.

I would drop the mm/hf speeders, pick up a libby in termie armor w/null zone/avenger, add another las/plas tac squad and get one speeder w/hb/typhoon.

Cassius
Libby w/term armor/null/avenger

4 5 man tac squads w/las/plas razorback

1 6 man assault term squad w/5th-ss/1pr lc
1 lrc w/mm

1 land speeder w/hb/typhoon

1500 even.

Maybe keep cassius and grab the libby but drop one of the terminators, give libby terminator armor + storm shield so he does not die first round of combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HQ

Chaplain Cassius: 125
Libby (avenger, nullzone) Terminator armor, storm shield 140

Troops

Tac Squad: 90
Las-plas Razorback: 75
Total: 165

Tac Squad: 90
TL-las Razorback: 75
Total: 165

Tac Squad: 90
TL-las Razorback: 75
Total: 165

Elites

5 TH/SS Assault Terminators: 200

Land Raider Crusder dedicated transport w/ Multimelta: 260

Fast Attack

2x MM / HF Land Speeders: 140

2x MM / HF Land Speeders: 140



Automatically Appended Next Post:
looks a bit weak on the troops side, but at 1500 it might do. Playtest that in objective missions imo.

Unsure on this list. It seems like:

* You have few scoring units, but fortunately you're playing Marines.
* Your big punch depends on a Land Raider crossing the board.
* Anti horde is based on heavy flamers on speeders. Anti-mech has lascannons + prayers for first strike on speeders, which should be fair.

drop cassius??? The librarian seems like a much much better HQ and if you take him and lose cassius you can throw in the attack bikes for more anti-tank/monstrous creature.
I wouldn't change the tacticals at all. At the moment they're only able to provide support and hold objectives. Even though it seems like thats a bad thing its NOT.
They're the most important part of your force, they shouldn't draw attention and give the opponent a good reason to fire at them.

The only thing I would really urge you to do is put Extra Armor on your Land Raider. It's a big part of your offense and it would be a real shame to lose a turn of movement with a 3rd of your army...

wuestenfux wrote:
Looks a bit crappy to me.
Tacticals should be the back bone of an SM army.

They're overpriced. You're paying at least 205 points for a unit that is reasonably armored, mediocre in h2h, mediocre at shooting...

If they got an extra CCW like SW or Chaos (or every other Marine out there pretty much) for 15 points, they'd be worth it, free heavy weapon or no free heavy weapon. As it is, they're good for sitting on objectives and taking their one heavy weapon shot per turn. This can be a 205 point, slightly more survivable ML, or a 165 point, less survivable but killer, superior heavy weapon.

Sarnath666 wrote:

drop cassius??? The librarian seems like a much much better HQ and if you take him and lose cassius you can throw in the attack bikes for more anti-tank/monstrous creature.
I wouldn't change the tacticals at all. At the moment they're only able to provide support and hold objectives. Even though it seems like thats a bad thing its NOT.
They're the most important part of your force, they shouldn't draw attention and give the opponent a good reason to fire at them.

That's a good point on Cassius, actually. Seeing that his toughness only comes into play during h2h, the Librarian is infinitely more useful and not much more expensive with a SS.

imweasel wrote:I would drop the mm/hf speeders, pick up a libby in termie armor w/null zone/avenger, add another las/plas tac squad and get one speeder w/hb/typhoon.

It's either Cassius or the Librarian. I want to avoid the LR full of ridiculously killy stuff. Before this, I was running Vulkan and a Librarian in the LR with the Terminators. It's killy as all getout, but it's too many points tied up in one place, at one time.





I think that dropping Cassius for a Librarian is a good option. In my local area, too many people play LRs to omit MM/HF speeders entirely.

Dropping Cassius for a bare-bones Librarian would net me 25 points on top of the 100 extra I was toying with before. Dropping one Terminator would leave me with just enough for an additional squad in a Razorback.

So it would look like:

4x 5-man squads in Razorbacks (2 TL-LAS, 1 TL-AC, 1 lasplas)
5 TH/SS Termies and Librarian in a Raider
2 x 2 MM/HF speeders


That's pretty cool actually.