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Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays my fellow Dakkites!
i was thinking of treating myself to some custom dice as a present. but a friend of mine said that he's heard that custom dice can give skewed results. has anyone had any experience with this? or, on the other hand they work just as random as "normal" dice? i'd really appreciate any input you fine folks can offer.
thanks.

Never heard that before. I guess if more of the mass of a die is taken out of one side than others then i guess it would but who knows maybe i am talking out my arse. I have no idea though i am just curious to see what others say on the subject.

Really for any plastic dice the amount of material taken out by the pips is negligible compared to the mass and inertia of a thrown die. Even so the only thing I would be suspicious of would be any thing that either replaces the "one" side with a design or has an oversized "one" pips as both of these could possibility, maybe make the dice roll higher. Metal dice I would be more suspicious of.

Custom Dice?? Are you talking about "Cheater Dice" like having someone print up a die with the "one side" replaced with a "six side" for example. Sure they would skew the results and you might get kicked out of where ever your playing and/or get your butt kicked. Chessex makes custom dice but they have a large minimum order of something like a 1000 dice, but you may check around with other companies.
I really dought anyone will be counting how many sixes you roll or making a bell curve chart of the dice rolls...If you don't get caught using them..count your self lucky

If you are talking about custom dice with a dragon or something in the place of one of the faces.. There are people out there that say they do.. and by simple logic the side with the least material should always go to the top.. What do I think?... its still random no matter what... Dice will always hate me and roll what I don't need..

Here is a video talking about how a simple thing like buffing the die can effect it..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR2fxoNHIuU

Genoside07 wrote:Custom Dice?? Are you talking about "Cheater Dice" like having someone print up a die with the "one side" replaced with a "six side" for example. Sure they would skew the results and you might get kicked out of where ever your playing and/or get your butt kicked. Chessex makes custom dice but they have a large minimum order of something like a 1000 dice, but you may check around with other companies.
I really dought anyone will be counting how many sixes you roll or making a bell curve chart of the dice rolls...If you don't get caught using them..count your self lucky

If you are talking about custom dice with a dragon or something in the place of one of the faces.. There are people out there that say they do.. and by simple logic the side with the least material should always go to the top.. What do I think?... its still random no matter what... Dice will always hate me and roll what I don't need..

Here is a video talking about how a simple thing like buffing the die can effect it..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR2fxoNHIuU

good god no! not cheater dice. Custom dice. ones with designs on them. i'm not such a bad dice roller that i need to revert that kinda crap.
i'm just asking if anyone has bought/ or knows someone that bought them. and if they affected their roles.

The consensus from previous threads seems to indicate they well might, but none of the small-scale statistical calculations have ever been accepted as anything substantial because to be valid, you'd have to test each die thousands if not millions of times.

I dont think they roll any different from any other dice its just that people notice the pictures/designs more.

Having said that my mate has one of those GW dice cube sets and his directional dice come up on 'hit' 9 times out of 10...

Mick

Yes, having a custom design makes a non-zero difference in the results. Kind of like how people exert a non-zero gravitational effect on the sun.

thanks for the non-zero answer? i guess?

Local Games Club has just got in it's Custom Dice, and they are terrible! Seriously, one of the guys spends a fair bit of time in the store, and is happy to help out with beginners and NooBs. When teaching someone the game, he uses his 'Hydra Dice' (name of the club is Hydra) as they roll so consistently badly it gives the NooB a good crack at their first win

Custom Dice?? Are you talking about "Cheater Dice"

WTF Genoside? He specifically asked about custom dice. You know like the ones 40K Radio had custom made with their logo on them. I for one would be highly insulted Alarmingrick. Then again perhaps you fear others will do what you have already done.

Non specific statement don't push your insecurities on me.

Seriously though this had me thinking. I found 4 scatter dice and rolled them 100 times each (small sample I know). I came up with 27, 30, 33, & 38 hits respectively. I thought I noticed a difference in the outcome when the dice got a good roll as opposed to just a drop. So I took the highest rolling die and rolled it another hundred times this time taking care to make sure it actually rolled vs bouncing. The outcome, an astounding 54 hits out of 100 rolls (should be 33 or 34 Genoside).

This die has been carefully segregated................for further study. Perhaps under true combat conditions. You know, in the name of science.

Genoside07 wrote:Chessex makes custom dice but they have a large minimum order of something like a 1000 dice, but you may check around with other companies.

You can order custom dice from Chessex. Give them a design you want to use, and they'll do a sample die for free where your design replaces either the one or the six. If you buy less than 30, it'll cost about a dollar a die, getting cheaper at certain intervals for the more you buy.

These are a few of the custom dice people I've known have gotten through Chessex.

Bookwrack wrote:

Genoside07 wrote:Chessex makes custom dice but they have a large minimum order of something like a 1000 dice, but you may check around with other companies.

You can order custom dice from Chessex. Give them a design you want to use, and they'll do a sample die for free where your design replaces either the one or the six. If you buy less than 30, it'll cost about a dollar a die, getting cheaper at certain intervals for the more you buy.

These are a few of the custom dice people I've known have gotten through Chessex.

exactly! that's what i was thinking about. but my main concern if i do actually break down And buy some is people saying that they aren't random or that it's a form of cheating.

That last pic has some great looking dice in it!! Problem is that yes they can affect the rolls.

I had some with a chaos star made up for a buddy of mine for his birthday last year.
They roll more 6's than anything else.

(Custom side is the 6)

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:I had some with a chaos star made up for a buddy of mine for his birthday last year.
They roll more 6's than anything else.

(Custom side is the 6)

Eric

Have you got him to roll, say, 5 of his custom dice with five ordinary dice over around ten rolls to actually see the difference in the amount of sixes? I still think its that we notice the symbol more... (not challenging your statement, just curious now)

Mick

I've never had anyone question the probability of my dice, and I did worry that with an image that large the mass taken out would have some effect, but test rolls of the entire set did not yield any particular skew in results, and I've had spectacular failures in games as often as success (when I desperately needed to thin down an assault, and I struck first and needed 2s to wound, and 5/6 came up 1...) If someone did say they didn't trust my dice, I'd just shrug and say, 'You can use them too if you want.' Problem solved.

Mick A wrote:

MagickalMemories wrote:I had some with a chaos star made up for a buddy of mine for his birthday last year.
They roll more 6's than anything else.

(Custom side is the 6)

Eric

Have you got him to roll, say, 5 of his custom dice with five ordinary dice over around ten rolls to actually see the difference in the amount of sixes? I still think its that we notice the symbol more... (not challenging your statement, just curious now)

Mick

Well, we haven't tested them like THAT.

What we DID do, after the third or so game with them, was roll all 30 of them about 20 times and count the # of times each # came up. I don't recall the exact breakdown, but nearly half were sixes (around 40 to 45%). Of the remaining numbers, 1 rolled the 2nd highest number of times, followed by 5 then 4 then 3 then 2.

Now, I know that isn't exactly a scientific analysis, but I know what I see. Those dice roll a LOT of 6's. It's not just about noticing the image more than the rest.

If you think about it, it makes sense... the image is pretty large, so there's a lot of material removed from the die. The "1" side has relatively little removed, making it the heaviest. With the heaviest side opposite the lightest side, these results are to be expected.


Eric

Hmmm, I kinda want to watch this thread now, I want some custom dice of my own.

Anecdotally, the custom Chessex Dakka Dice (only available to DCMs) roll both really well and really poorly. My experience is that they're typically pretty average, which I'm happy with.

Again, this is anecdotal.

alarmingrick wrote:Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays my fellow Dakkites!
i was thinking of treating myself to some custom dice as a present. but a friend of mine said that he's heard that custom dice can give skewed results. has anyone had any experience with this? or, on the other hand they work just as random as "normal" dice? i'd really appreciate any input you fine folks can offer.
thanks.

Well since most dice are not regulated to meet the standards that Vegas requires of their dice it just doesn't matter. Now if you were to want dice for a casino you legally run then you would are required to have them be perfectly balanced or else you could be in big trouble.

So don't worry too much about what you put.

To be honest, im happy with my casino dice.
Allways perfect rolling, but they need replacing every few months as they wear down alot.

If you put 2 side by side they should meet up 100% perfect.
If they have been used for a while they will be slightly rounded, which is still fine to use, but i prefer them sharp edged.

okay for the record: i'm not wanting to cheat or open a casino. i Am wanting some cool, hopefully original looking dice, that won't hose me on my rolls or my opponent. i want to have "regular" dice (function wise) that look cool. and i'm asking if people have noticed either their custom dice rolling erraticly(good or bad for them) or people claiming they aren't "fair".

thanks so far to the people that have contibuted to the discussion. right now i'm leaning towards getting some. i haven't heard alot to convince me they're a bad investment.


JD21290 wrote:
"but i prefer them sharp edged. "

functional and deadly!

Just to make sweeping declarations, I think that anyone who actually had a genuine problem with dice with custom engravings on them deserves a good solid slap. I've seen perfectly normal sets of chessex dice that roll terrible, some that roll average, and a few that roll amazingly. Consistently. Same with GW dice. When you have a base design that behaves this erratic, can you say that adding a design on one side will really change the behaviour of the dice? I'd say by all means go for it, they look awesome. If anyone complains, tell them that their dice are just as skewed, since there is more material taken out of the six pip side than the one pip side.

I buy my dice from casino supply. $3 per dice but I get a discount for bulk orders and they are cut to .0001 of an inch.

Cheap dice are oblong and buffed in a tumbler. Roll many at a time from the same lot and you get randomized results BUT some dice with have a tendancy to roll a certain number most of the time. Hence people having the "favorite" dice in the collection.

I will give my two cents here.
As someone who both uses and makes custom dice for gamers I'll tell you that the reality of dice statistics are not easily perceived by anyone playing wargames like these.

There is some truth that dice probabilities will change if you adjust the die. This happens when you use pips or a custom design. Either way you are removing small pieces of the die and that can change the probability some. This is expected when using anything but Casino dice (which are specially made and federally regulated).

The real truth is that people perceive probabilities far more than are actually there. You might notice that many people say that certain dice roll far more 1's or 6's than anything else. This isn't by accident, this is perception of the the best and worst possibilities. Depending on the game you will notice your failures or your opponent's successes far more than all the 2,3,4's and 5's.

There is also the fact that probabilities are (as many have mentioned) meant to show the chance of rolling a certain number. It would take a large volume of rolls to show that exact probability. Rolling a hundred times or a thousand times might be close to the probability but in truth it could be wildly different yet the dice are perfectly fine, this is because despite what people think the chance of doing something 1 in 6 times is not close at all to seeing it happen 10 in 60 times or 100 in 600 times.

So the short answer is yes custom dice may affect the roll of those dice. Bear in mind that all dice with drilled pips (like every die you probably own) follows these same properties. Also bear in mind how many times you actually roll dice and for what purpose, a certain amount of imperfections is accepted by gamers because its a game. And lastly, always remember that your perceptions of the game are far more influential than actual probabilities.

Cheers.

DCMs had the option to buy DAKKA dice. Do you guys still do that?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
IVe also thought about custom dice, with an Ork glyph on one of the sides

I also think dice have the certain sides (the different numbers) in different places for a reason. Aren't the different balances meant to counterbalance everything else?

There is truth in what shartmatu said, everyone's dice are the same way already. The six side already has the most material pulled out because it has the most pips...

If you are wondering about porbability and randomness of dice rolling, check out the dice king from Game Science Dice. The video is two parts but provides some very interesting insights on the design and manufacturing of dice. I actually ordered 5 dice but use the custom dice from Army Dice just because they look cool. I never noticed any number showing up more than the other.

I have 50 of these. I rolled the lot of them 100 times when I bought them and did notice a slight bias towards 2s and 5s, but not nearly as bad as regular 12mm GW dice. Contrary to popular belief, those are horribly unfair.