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What is the recommended loadout for a mob of Nobz. Subject to the following conditions:

1. Comprised of one Nobz boxset plus up to ten nobz from Skull pass boxsets, the later may be converted as needed. I dont have unlimited bitz for nobz.

2. No bikes, this is a foot unit. I will consdier nobz bikers seperately.

3. I would like a banner and a painboy, simply becuase its my only opportunity to take them, and i like a bit of variety, but i am prepared to drop them if they dont work well.

4. do not account for the warboss which I will slot in as and when I see fit. The unit should be standalone.

5. Footslogger, trukk or battlewagon, you help decide.


I am not sure if i want or need a Nobz mob. i have a unit of Meganobz and nobz for my boyz so I have the model entry covered. I do not as yet have a biker mob, but that is a heavy investment and will skew my entire army so I might not get that either. What I am looking for is a nobz mob that can slot into an ork army, not too expensive to act as a points lodestone or a single killer unit. Somethnig I can just deceide to take on a whim instead of more kans or more lootas as a change, yet I dont want to be lumbered with some crap that I cant really use.

i tend to play mechanised armies, which is why my orks are footsloggers, so far I have lots of kans, boyz, deffkoptas, the odd Dred and some lootas and MaNz. Its a 'kult of Stomp' army if it has a theme at all. I dont really know if Nobz belong.

Hey man!
Just thought Id throw my own experience at you. I ran the 5 man Nobz squad from AoBR, no upgrades other than 'Eavy Armor, no painboy, no WAAAGH! banner, and they still did awesome. I threw them in a Trukk with my Warboss (who also had 'Eavy Armor) and they ended up obliterating a marine assault squad (thanks to good rolls for me and bad rolls for my opponent).

Keep in mind, 5 basic Nobs will charge in with 25 attacks total! Then you add in your Warboss and that is a lot of dice, from one little squad. The multi-wounds help them stick around even when their mediocre armor doesnt help haha.

I was actually looking to revisit that list, as I havent played my Orks for a bit (played them 2 years straight and need a Power Armored break), and was thinking about getting that squad back on the table.

Not sure if a Painboy would be worth it for a smaller mob like that, he's 30pts (?) and replaces a Nob (I believe, no codex in front of me). The banner is nice, I suppose it just depends on what you're fighting, like if you know you're fighting Tau, Guard, Sisters and the like, you may not need to spend the points as you'll hit them pretty well as is.

Hope that helps some.
T-

Right-o. Your instincts are good; Waagh! Banner and Painboy are the only reasons, IMO, to take Nobz over MANZ. Here's a suggested loadout;

Painboy, Cybork Body
PK, Cybork Body
PK, Cybork Body, Waagh! Banner
PK, Cybork Body, Kombi-skorcha
PK, Cybork Body, Bosspole
PK, Cybork Body, 'Eavy Armour
Big Choppa, Cybork Body, Kombi-skorcha
Big Choppa, Cybork Body, Bosspole
Big Choppa, Cybork Body, TL Shoota
Big Choppa, Cybork Body, 'Eavy Armour

Total of 475 points. 16 S7 attacks, 20 S9 PK attacks, and 4 Poisoned attacks on the charge, all at WS5, plus a couple of S5 templates for softening up the enemy before you charge home. All of these models effectively have a 3+ save (5+ Inv/4+ FNP), wounds are all allocated individually, in short it's a monster and very difficult to kill. I would suggest putting them in a Battlewagon, unless you're running a pure footslogging army. That'd be a BW with RPJ, 2 BS, Deff Rolla for 115 points, making the total 590. Toss in a souped-up boss and that's about a third of your army, but it really puts out pain.

EDIT: Alternatively, if you want a slightly cheaper squad, take 8x Nobz w/ Big Choppa, Cybork Body, give a few of them kombi-skorchas, and add a Painboy and Waagh! Banner. That'll run you 350 points with 2 kombi-skorchas; add a trukk with a RPJ and you'll be at 390 points for 36 S7 and 4 Poisoned S5 attacks on the charge. A PK Warboss with a couple of upgrades will probably raise you close to 500.

And one Immobilized Trukk later, that 500pt unit is getting shot to hell as it walks across the board. Meanwhile all the enemy units simply step back to shoot at it. And that's not even saying what super mobile armies like Tau, Eldar, Marine Biker armies or any other Mechanized army can do to it. FNP or no, weight of fire will bring it down, and depending on the game size and regardless of how cheap Orks are, 500pts for one unit is a chunk of your points.

On the otherhand, sure if this unit gets into HTH it's gonna suck for almost anything, it can be a decent sized "if" if your opponent has a clue what that unit is.

Also, I had to fight an Ork Nob Biker unit once, there were 5 or 6 bikers and a Warboss with PK, unit had a Painboy and all the upgrades, close to 500pts too. My Dark Eldar Archon held the unit up in combat for 3 rounds and eventually wiped them out with the Shadow Field/Agoniser/Combat Drugs set up. So that was 130pts killing 500pts.

And, the OP said he had 10 Choppa/Slugga Nobz and 5 from the multi-part kit, so he isnt going to have 7 PKs and all the other stuff mentioned.

Hope that helps.
T-

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:
And, the OP said he had 10 Choppa/Slugga Nobz and 5 from the multi-part kit, so he isnt going to have 7 PKs and all the other stuff mentioned.

possibly not even that. I have some Black Reach nobz and can get miore easily enough on eBay, my true budget for the army is very small, just a few pounds to finish off and never at retail pries.

I can stretch to a nobz boxset plus Black Reach, I would be happier just to stick to heap nobz and conversion bitz, I have stuff to make big choppas let alone a standard.

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:Hey man!
Just thought Id throw my own experience at you. I ran the 5 man Nobz squad from AoBR, no upgrades other than 'Eavy Armor, no painboy, no WAAAGH! banner, and they still did awesome. I threw them in a Trukk with my Warboss (who also had 'Eavy Armor) and they ended up obliterating a marine assault squad (thanks to good rolls for me and bad rolls for my opponent).

I wonder if this is in any way indicitive, the basic squa in the boxst doesnt look like anything but filler to me, if you got mileage out of anything other thasn a starter game I suspect your lucky streak accounted for so much that you couldnt evanuate the unit at all. Its nice to see basic Black Reach nobz and warboss get somewhere, but is this really likely to be repeated?

Orlanth wrote:
I wonder if this is in any way indicitive, the basic squa in the boxst doesnt look like anything but filler to me, if you got mileage out of anything other thasn a starter game I suspect your lucky streak accounted for so much that you couldnt evanuate the unit at all. Its nice to see basic Black Reach nobz and warboss get somewhere, but is this really likely to be repeated?

Probably not. Unupgraded nobs can't really do anything boyz can't do for less.

In general: Get a painboy, always bring at least a klaw or two. Spend points on upgrades (banner, bosspole, etc.), then saves (cybork or armor), then wound allocation uniqueness (buy a few big choppas, some kombi-weapons, etc.).

They get expensive real fast. You have to find a balance between how many points you pour into making them and how many points they're really worth to you in your particular list. (Do I really need 4 PKs as opposed to 3?, etc.)

Also, Battlewagons rule. Especially when you're moving something you really want to get where it's going. But I don't think they'd fit into your lists theme and overall speed, so ymmv.

I use Dash's layout when I play, for the most part. Tries to keep the cost down... add armor or cybork to taste (he argues in favor of armor, I happen to take cybork) and you end up with ~406pts

Dashofpepper wrote:
1. Painboy
2. Waaaugh! Banner
3. Bosspole
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw + Ammo Runt
6. Powerklaw + Kombi-Skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big Choppa + Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa + Kombi-Skorcha
10. Normal Nob.

You could change boss poles or eavy armour on them for stick bombs. Not many but it saves points. That's always better than not saving points.

Konini wrote:You could change boss poles or eavy armour on them for stick bombs. Not many but it saves points. That's always better than not saving points.

You have to buy stikkbombs for the whole mob at once ("The entire mob may take" - Stikkbombs 1pt/model). Can't really use em for uniqueness.

"I wonder if this is in any way indicitive, the basic squa in the boxst doesnt look like anything but filler to me, if you got mileage out of anything other thasn a starter game I suspect your lucky streak accounted for so much that you couldnt evanuate the unit at all. Its nice to see basic Black Reach nobz and warboss get somewhere, but is this really likely to be repeated? "

Well, that would really be up to you, wouldnt it? You can take the 500pt Nobz mob, with all the shiny stuff, and attached Warboss of Doom, but if you dont know what to do with it, what good is it going to do you?

It's really going to come down to your ability to get the most out of your squads (regardless of army). I found running barebones Nobz mobs to be great, and the results didnt stop with one game. Consider your opponent not thinking much of them because they dont have anything special......until they crash into one of his units with 5 attacks each. Also, if you keep the Nobz mob cheap, you can still get them AND lots more into the army, and numbers are what the Orks excel at.

Its ultimately up to you and what you feel like running, and yea, Boyz are cheaper, but how many of them do you want to paint? haha. It adds flavor to the army, and give your opponent something else to worry about while your 20-30 man mobz are making their way towards him.

Trogdor the Burninator wrote:Well, that would really be up to you, wouldnt it? You can take the 500pt Nobz mob, with all the shiny stuff, and attached Warboss of Doom, but if you dont know what to do with it, what good is it going to do you?

Thankyou for your help so far Trogdor, it appreciated and confirms more or less what others are saying.

However you advocacy of basic nobz based on player skill runs into a Dakka meme known as 'use tactics'. Yes sub par units can do well either through luck, poor opposition or good play but 40K is sufficinetly open that too many poor list choices, especially expensive ones, cripple a list. I am all for the odd crap unit, but I draw the line on sme choices normally those too lame ugly or similar to something else that is better. For a cfrap unit to make my use list it has to be fun and unique. Nobz with choppa and slugga doesnt add anything new to an army with slugga boyz in it.
Thanks but no thanks.

Gorkamorka wrote: Probably not. Unupgraded nobs can't really do anything boyz can't do for less.

In general: Get a painboy, always bring at least a klaw or two. Spend points on upgrades (banner, bosspole, etc.), then saves (cybork or armor), then wound allocation uniqueness (buy a few big choppas, some kombi-weapons, etc.).

I dont like the whole uniqueness thing just to play the rules. its a bit messy and picky IMHO. However you seem to be saying that I must do that to get use useage from the squad.

Nobz are looking unattractive for my play style.

I have some token meganobz, I suppose they will have to do.

3 MANz in a Trukk is actually quite a solid unit, especially with Warbosses to make them scoring.

130 points with two combiflamers to give you unique wound allocation; now you have a unit that will still absolutely murder most MEQ units in close combat at a point cost that makes you not care if the Trukk gets blown on turn 1.

If they are stranded, simply walk them to the nearest objective. Now you've got a hard-as-nails objective holder for a paltry handful of points.

In general I hate Ork Trukks and would never base an army around them. 3 MANz, though, I think are a fine unit and the Ork Trukk is a great addition for them.

sourclams wrote:3 MANz in a Trukk is actually quite a solid unit, especially with Warbosses to make them scoring.

130 points with two combiflamers to give you unique wound allocation; now you have a unit that will still absolutely murder most MEQ units in close combat at a point cost that makes you not care if the Trukk gets blown on turn 1.

If they are stranded, simply walk them to the nearest objective. Now you've got a hard-as-nails objective holder for a paltry handful of points.

In general I hate Ork Trukks and would never base an army around them. 3 MANz, though, I think are a fine unit and the Ork Trukk is a great addition for them.

I am a fan of the three MANz unit with or without warboss.Sying thatg MANz are so expensive in cash I cant really afford much more. My army is footdlogger and I have no trukk but 6-9 Kans and a Dred draw the right amount of fire.

Here's a copy and paste of something I wrote elsewhere - this is an oft-answered question.

5. If you are going to use a nob unit, here's the "perfect solution" that I've come up with: Its as few points as possible while optimizing effectiveness:
1. Pain Boy
2. Waaaugh! Banner
3. Bosspole
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw + Ammo runt
6. Powerklaw + Kombi-Skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big choppa + Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa + Kombi-skorcha
10. Normal Nob

Give them all 'Eavy armor, and they have a 4+ armor and 4+ Feel no pain. However, I would urge you to drop cybork bodies. I would posit that an intelligent ork player will pretty much never be in a situation to *need* a 5+ invulnerable save...here's why. Your nobs start in a battlewagon and need no saves. As they trundle and bounce their way up the field, they're in an AV14 front armor vehicle, which is getting 4+ cover saves from the Big Mek with the KFF who is in 6", and the sides of the battlewagon are protected by other battlewagons or trukks, meaning that there are no side armor shots against you. If you work out a lascannon shot; between the rolls to hit, glance/penetrate, cover save, damage chart....the chances of a lascannon shot meaningfully affecting you are less than 3%. Melta doesn't really matter. On Turn2+, you have a 27" assault range, and if someone meltas you, you're in range to assault anyway. So your Nobs are in a vehicle until it either A.) gets blown up or B.) You voluntarily get out to assault.

If A Happens, you get 4+ armor saves. The battlewagon either gets wrecked or exploded. If its exploded you're in 4+ cover from the wreckage and crater, and if its destroyed, you can deploy behind and around it to give yourself either 4+ cover or denied visibility. Either way, you have at worst a 4+ save. Beyond that, as you work to get into close combat you can either move from cover to cover, or dump someone less important out of their vehicle and put the nobs into it. You STILL have no need of a 5+ invulnerable save.

That just leaves close combat. With a 27" assault range, YOU decide what to assault. Since you have Ghazghkull and burnas to deal with really scary things that ignore armor saves, you can spend your Nobs wisely on MEQs and things without massed powerweapons. Just no reason to take it on this unit in a mechanized list.

Dashofpepper wrote:Here's a copy and paste of something I wrote elsewhere - this is an oft-answered question.

5. If you are going to use a nob unit, here's the "perfect solution" that I've come up with: Its as few points as possible while optimizing effectiveness:
1. Pain Boy
2. Waaaugh! Banner
3. Bosspole
4. Powerklaw
5. Powerklaw + Ammo runt
6. Powerklaw + Kombi-Skorcha
7. Big Choppa
8. Big choppa + Ammo Runt
9. Big Choppa + Kombi-skorcha
10. Normal Nob

Give them all 'Eavy armor, and they have a 4+ armor and 4+ Feel no pain. However, I would urge you to drop cybork bodies. I would posit that an intelligent ork player will pretty much never be in a situation to *need* a 5+ invulnerable save...here's why. Your nobs start in a battlewagon and need no saves. As they trundle and bounce their way up the field, they're in an AV14 front armor vehicle, which is getting 4+ cover saves from the Big Mek with the KFF who is in 6", and the sides of the battlewagon are protected by other battlewagons or trukks, meaning that there are no side armor shots against you. If you work out a lascannon shot; between the rolls to hit, glance/penetrate, cover save, damage chart....the chances of a lascannon shot meaningfully affecting you are less than 3%. Melta doesn't really matter. On Turn2+, you have a 27" assault range, and if someone meltas you, you're in range to assault anyway. So your Nobs are in a vehicle until it either A.) gets blown up or B.) You voluntarily get out to assault.

If A Happens, you get 4+ armor saves. The battlewagon either gets wrecked or exploded. If its exploded you're in 4+ cover from the wreckage and crater, and if its destroyed, you can deploy behind and around it to give yourself either 4+ cover or denied visibility. Either way, you have at worst a 4+ save. Beyond that, as you work to get into close combat you can either move from cover to cover, or dump someone less important out of their vehicle and put the nobs into it. You STILL have no need of a 5+ invulnerable save.

That just leaves close combat. With a 27" assault range, YOU decide what to assault. Since you have Ghazghkull and burnas to deal with really scary things that ignore armor saves, you can spend your Nobs wisely on MEQs and things without massed powerweapons. Just no reason to take it on this unit in a mechanized list.

There is still an argument in favor of cybork bodies. It goes like this;

1. Statistically speaking, 4+ armor and FNP is a little better than a 3+ save, but worse than a 2+. 5+ Inv. + 4+ FNP is equivalent to a 3+ save. In essence, 'eavy armor does not significantly increase your survivability over cybork bodies.

2. Cybork Bodies and 'Eavy armor are the same price.

3. Inv. saves can be taken in circumstance where you would otherwise be denied ANY save. For instance, if a Basilisk lands an indirect-fire shell on your Nobz you won't get cover, you won't get armor, and you won't get FNP. You WILL, however, still get an Invulnerable save!

4. Despite Dashofpepper's confident statement that "With a 27" assault range, YOU decide what to assault", there will still be circumstances when, for one reason or another, you want those Nobz to attack a unit of Vanguard with power weapons, or Gray Knights, or an HQ unit with power weapons. There will also be times when such a unit assaults YOU, after you have gotten locked. In these circumstances, you will be very glad of that 5+ Invulnerable save.


As for WAC abuse; I actually agree with you here. You can still use normal Nobz quite effectively without it, you simply end up with a slightly more brittle squad. If you don't want to bother with WAC abuse, try this load-out;

Painboy
PK w/Waagh! Banner
3x PK
5x Big Choppa, 3x kombi-burna

All with Cybork Bodies, toss in a few kombi-burnas to tase. Costs 430 points plus a transport, for which I recommend a battlewagon.

However, I do sincerly recommend MANZ over normal Nobz. They're cheaper for what they do, they come with TL Shootas so you can toss a bit of dakka downfield when you get a good opportunity, and that 2+ save makes them both extremely hard to kill and very scary, resulting in opponents commonly wasting a LOT of firepower trying to kill them.