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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 12:40:04
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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Hi guys. I'm an experienced Eldar player but never used war walkers before. I am getting a squad of 3 shortly but cant decide how to arm them. I get the impression most people favour 2 scatter lasers. 95% of the time I play against space marines or chaos space marines so I was planning on arming all 3 with 1 scatter laser and 1 starcannon, to negate the damned power armor saves.
Thoughts?
Thx
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13th of 300 Blood Bowl GT '08
7000
3500
1500
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 13:01:34
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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No starcannon, no Bright Lance.
That is your guide... have fun.
Seriously though, using only scatterlasers is your best bet overall. Sometimes shuriken cannons are all you really need, especially if you are outflanking. In a squad of 3, saving 20 points a models is not a bad idea overall, you just loose the flexibility that the extra foot of range gives you.
Your main goal is to shoot as much as possible, while maintaining safety through your opponents forces. You can easily immobilize vehicles then hide behind them, as well as occasionally assaulting weak melee units to stop from getting shot at. 3 shuriken cannon warwalkers offer a cheap way to bring a disruptive unit onto the field for cheap. Combine that with whatever else you use in your army, and your opponent is going to have to think about whether it is worth it to waste anti-tank on them, just to get better odds on the shots.
I highly recommend using a full squad of scorpions in combo with your warwalkers no matter what though, as the scorpions can run into problems when opening transports; but they can deal with most things inside. Warwalkers are piss-poor at actually killing stuff in combat. Try to only assualt transports when you can't shoot them at range.
Warwalkers are extremely fragile units, so use them very carefully, and in unison with the rest of your army. Take advantage of cover at all times. Stepping out of cover is just asking to get destroyed.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/01/03 13:03:30
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 13:09:45
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Proud Phantom Titan
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I like duel Scatter lasers .... 24 shots at Str6 from 36" away. Mind you if your out flanking S.Cannons work just as well.
Have also tried EML .... they cost more but can really hurt hords. Add bonus you also get the option of a strength 8 shot (which 80% of the time is as good as the bright lance)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 13:14:21
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot
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If your going to be playing against those armies then i would reccomend arming each with a scatter laser and starcannon. This gives 18 S6 shots, 6 of which are AP2. I use this setup most of the time and have, many a time, reduced units of wolf guard, termies, possesed, tactical squads etc., to nearly total destruction. If you can manouvre around the side of a tank, you'll even be able to destroy the weaker ones.
A missile launcher maybe an option, only one mind.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/01/03 13:15:25
"The stars themselves once lived and died at our command yet you still dare oppose our will. "-Farseer Mirehn Biellann
Armies at 'The Stand-still Point':
Cap'n Waaagggh's warband (Fantasy Orcs) 2250pts. Waaagghhh! in full flow... W-D-L=10-3-3
Hive Fleet Leviathan Strand 1500pts. W-D-L=7-1-2 Nom.
Eldar armies of various sizes W-D-L 26-6-3
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 13:59:11
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Longtime Dakkanaut
New Zealand
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Don't mix weapons, particularly ones with drastically different AP values (i.e on some units you can get away with EML and Bright Lances but putting a Bright Lance and a Scatter Laser together is never a good idea) as it means you can often waste shots because of wound allocation issues.
2 Scatter Lasers are the most common loadout, a bucket load of shots and good range, combine with Guide for massive damage. Some people run 2 Shuriken Cannons if they plan to outflank with them as the range isn't needed as much and they end up a bit cheaper. I think the only other viable loadout would be 2 EMLs which would let you sit as far back as you can and either template hordes to death or provide a decent long range AT unit. Bright Lances are horribly expensive as are Starcannons for their damage output.
As much as ignoring the armour save of Marines is awesome, the huge amount of cover in 5th means that the Scatter Laser is almost as good against MEQ and will do much better against infantry with worse saves and also against light vehicles. When you consider how much more expensive the Starcannon is than the Scatter Laser its isn't really going to be worth it. I think they are usuable but not in War Walker squadrons, the best place for them is fast vehicles as they are much more likely to be able to move into good positions so the enemy doesn't get cover. Use them on 2+ save troops as much as possible though, the Scatter Lasers and other massed fire will still do very well against 3+ or worse troops.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 15:34:38
Subject: Re:Eldar War Walkers
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Swift Swooping Hawk
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Another voice for not mixing weapons on units of walkers. If you really want two different types of weapons on walkers....then take two units of them.
Scatter lasers are probably best overall simply because the number of shots makes up for the lack of good ap, plus they are just begging to be guided. Eldrad + scatter laser walkers + scatter lasrer walkers = a whole lotta hurt.
EML are another good option, since with the longer range it sometimes is possible to keep the walkers out of harms way, plus the option of blast or heavy hit is good.
If you do plan on outflanking then yes shuri cannons are a possibility, but even then scatter lasers might be a better idea since we are never guaranteed which side they come in on.
Sliggoth
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Why does my eldar army run three fire prisms? Because the rules wont let me use four in (regular 40k). |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 15:39:36
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Scatter lasers are your friend on war walkers.
Don't mix weapons on walkers and don't mix weapons in squadrons of walkers.
I suppose it would not hurt to take 2 squadrons of 3 war walkers with scatter lasers and 1 squadron of 3 with star cannons, but personally it's fire superiority that gets the nod most of the time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 16:43:08
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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24 shots at MEQ will erase them from the board.
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2012 tourney record:
Eldar 18W-2L-5D Overall x4
Deathwing 21W-7L-6D Overall x4 Best General x1 Best Appearance x3, 19th place Adepticon 40k Champs.
Space Wolves 2W-0L-1D Best Painted x1
Armies:
1850+ pts. 3000+ pts. 2000+
40k bits go to my ebay... http://stores.shop.ebay.com/K-K-Gaming-and-Bits |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 17:03:45
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Dominar
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This is a great squad to Fortune as well. 10 wounds on average with no fortune turns into 15 wounds with fortune; 50% yield increase.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 18:20:10
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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sourclams wrote:This is a great squad to Fortune as well. 10 wounds on average with no fortune turns into 15 wounds with fortune; 50% yield increase.
I don't understand what this means. Fortune lets you re-roll saves, are you talking about doom? Don't use doom with warwalkers unless they are just chipping in on something being fired at by dire avengers or other small arms. Wounding most things on a 2+ makes re-rolls a waste of a farseer power most often.
If you want to make use of doom with warwalkers, make sure you have EML's (blast of course, S4, so on a 4+ which benefits greatly from RR's). Getting two squads of EML walkers, and using them in a list with Eldrad, is a fantastic way to fight most armies at range. At 210 points a squad, they are seriously starting to eat up a lot of points though. I prefer using Wraithlords with guide, as they are usually focusing on the important things my opponents will be fielding.
Most of the time, 24 S6 shots can easily put whatever dent you need in your enemies forces, without any real assistance from a farseer. This is one of the main reasons I enjoy using warwalkers so much. With an army that so heavily relies on support from various psychic powers/buffs, independent units can be a real relief.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 18:27:58
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Proud Phantom Titan
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Wrexasaur wrote:sourclams wrote:This is a great squad to Fortune as well. 10 wounds on average with no fortune turns into 15 wounds with fortune; 50% yield increase.
I don't understand what this means. Fortune lets you re-roll saves, are you talking about doom? Don't use doom with warwalkers unless they are just chipping in on something being fired at by dire avengers or other small arms. Wounding most things on a 2+ makes re-rolls a waste of a farseer power most often.
If you want to make use of doom with warwalkers, make sure you have EML's (blast of course, S4, so on a 4+ which benefits greatly from RR's). Getting two squads of EML walkers, and using them in a list with Eldrad, is a fantastic way to fight most armies at range. At 210 points a squad, they are seriously starting to eat up a lot of points though. I prefer using Wraithlords with guide, as they are usually focusing on the important things my opponents will be fielding.
Most of the time, 24 S6 shots can easily put whatever dent you need in your enemies forces, without any real assistance from a farseer. This is one of the main reasons I enjoy using warwalkers so much. With an army that so heavily relies on support from various psychic powers/buffs, independent units can be a real relief.
He means guide ...
BS 3 shooting 24 Str6 shots at normal infantry (T4 or less) ignoring saves = 5/12 so with 24 shots you should expect to cause 10 wounds
The same with guide (aka TL) = 15/24 so with 24 shots you should expect to cause 15 wounds.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/03 19:05:46
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Dominar
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Yep, Guide. Thanks Tri.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/04 01:02:20
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Something to keep in mind about Eldar Missile Launchers is that their Plasma Missiles are Pinning weapons and have surprisingly good AP values (not great, but surprisingly good). The combination of excellent range, which is great for outflanking and the dual-firing models makes them rough on just about anything. Scatter Laser are great until something with AV13+ notices your Walkers and decides to hunt them down.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/04 13:15:14
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Devastating Dark Reaper
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My first suggestion is to get rare earth magnets and use them so you will be able to swap the weapons out.
As for the weapons themselves scatter laser walkers put out an impressive amount of str 6 firepower for not a lot of points. If you're looking for super cheap ones then shuricannons aren't bad for smaller games. Star cannons may sound like a great idea against marines, but what you have to consider is if the marines are in cover, or worse in a rhino, then star cannons loose a lot of their oomph. They're just too expensive an option in the edition of cover saves.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/04 16:09:04
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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Nurglitch wrote:Something to keep in mind about Eldar Missile Launchers is that their Plasma Missiles are Pinning weapons and have surprisingly good AP values (not great, but surprisingly good). The combination of excellent range, which is great for outflanking and the dual-firing models makes them rough on just about anything. Scatter Laser are great until something with AV13+ notices your Walkers and decides to hunt them down.
The range and the AP4 is a great bonus, but the pinning really doesn't do anything most of the time. If you go with a 'purely' Alaitoc list (not all that effective really, and technically I think the fluff would not permit guardian units of any kind. Not sure about that one though), spamming pinning weapons can be decent against footslogging armies, and biker armies.
Add both Pathfinders and Warwalkers together (3 squads of 2 EML Warwalkers, 2-4 squads of Pathfinders, or Rangers if you like) to really make use of pinning. You can also just spam EML on anything you can, making use of up to 6 squads of EML defender Gaurdians. Overall though, pinning never really helps all that much, unless you get lucky. Against Ork swarms I suppose it is the most useful, especially if you are guiding your EML Warwalkers. Add the S4 blast spam, with the pinning, and any squads without cover are going to be in for a world of hurt.
Either way, EML works best when used in large numbers, on many occasions rendering Fire Prisms a rather pointless unit to add to your list. Even though I almost never use anything but scatterlasers on Warwalkers, EML's are a very tempting choice in a competitive setting. Good price, great range, and the ability to effectively wipe most infantry clean off the board, AFTER blowing their transports into the next dimension.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/04 16:18:30
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Never-Miss Nightwing Pilot
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It really depends on if you are playing casual or tournie. For casual its fine to mix weapons or stick a weapon on there just because it gets rid of a power armour save, with tournie theres a bit more thinking to be done.
If you dont want to mix weapons then take one with 2 Starcannons and two with 2 scatter lasers or one with 2 scatter lasers and two with 2 starcannons. Or a squad with all starcannons and a squad with all scatter lasers.
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"The stars themselves once lived and died at our command yet you still dare oppose our will. "-Farseer Mirehn Biellann
Armies at 'The Stand-still Point':
Cap'n Waaagggh's warband (Fantasy Orcs) 2250pts. Waaagghhh! in full flow... W-D-L=10-3-3
Hive Fleet Leviathan Strand 1500pts. W-D-L=7-1-2 Nom.
Eldar armies of various sizes W-D-L 26-6-3
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/04 16:31:13
Subject: Re:Eldar War Walkers
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Rotting Sorcerer of Nurgle
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Scatter lasers is the best. Or, like my friend does, dual bright lances and cast guide on em. Its pretty cool having 6 twin linked bright lances... too bad they die easily lol
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/04 17:48:48
Subject: Re:Eldar War Walkers
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets
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I would say scatter lasers are your best bang for your buck. For 180 points your getting 24 scatter laser shots. These work great against the following targets.
* MCs with a toughness of 6 -- like 'nids
* Bikes, or other high point models with a 5 toughness
* AV 10 vehicles, such as truuks or speeders
If you are looking to save points, you could put shuriken cannons on them. For 120 points you get 18 STR 6 shots. While point-for-point that seems like a better option, the 24" range on those can be a big drawback.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/08 10:39:17
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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Great, thanks all
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13th of 300 Blood Bowl GT '08
7000
3500
1500
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/09 06:52:13
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Storming Storm Guardian
How should I know? I just live here!
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3-4 scatter lasers. 1 bright lance. 1-2 missiles.
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If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumbered here
While these visions did appear.
-
William Shakespeare |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/09 14:20:48
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
Lost in the warp while searching for a new codex
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never ever mix wepons
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I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time.
15k
10k |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/11 00:23:47
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Horrific Howling Banshee
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When you say never mix weapons do most people think this is always a good rule to follow, or just with warwalkers?
Starting an Ork army and planning on mixing up weapons a lot in my Nob squad
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13th of 300 Blood Bowl GT '08
7000
3500
1500
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/11 03:54:56
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Member of the Malleus
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I think the never mix weapons theme is for shooting, Nobs regardless of weapons run in and hit something. If you have 2 diff weapons designed for 2 diff tasks, such is 3 Blance and 3 Scatter Lasers, you waste one when you use the other sometimes. 3 Bright Lance Shots at a unit in cover not going to do much, and 3 scatter lasers will no help you crack armour, so when you shoot half the load out is less then ideal. When you take single weapon loadouts, you concentrate fire at the target it is desgined to deal with and ignore what it cannot.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2010/01/11 04:40:16
Subject: Eldar War Walkers
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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mikeyboyj wrote:When you say never mix weapons do most people think this is always a good rule to follow, or just with warwalkers?
Starting an Ork army and planning on mixing up weapons a lot in my Nob squad
It depends on the unit overall, but as a general rule, yes mixing weapons is usually a bad idea.
With a squad of warwalkers, they are simply not solid enough to much besides shooting. With a squad of nobs, you can kit them to perform various tasks. The main point is that you would not, in pretty much any situation, with any unit; benefit all that much from mixing all sorts of weapons together. Having heavy flamers, and long range missiles, has obvious set backs for instance.
Just keep your builds focused, with a specific goal for that unit in mind. For instance:
I want a large unit of nobs, to bring lots of anti-tank to my army. Powerklaws and Big-choppas should do the trick, everything else is simply icing on the cake. If I want a unit of Warwalkers to perform the same task, I can kit them with Scatterlasers for light armor, or EML's for heavy armor, don't waste the points on brightlances for them. If my unit of warwalkers is specifically trying to thin out hordes, there is simply no reason for me to be taking any expensive weaponry, when scatterlasers cover pretty much all bases, in any situation.
Warwalkers simply perform best with scatterlasers, use that fact to your advantage, and save points if you really have to, by switching to Sh. Cannons. If you want to shoot tanks, just get EML's, no need to make a simple, but effective unit, useless due to complexities.
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