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Ok, I'm no super-player, and I'm definatly not a historbuff on fluff, but doesn't anybody else make jokes about the way w40k is set up?

I find, after reading BGB fluff, alot of it's contradictory and often corny, and it makes me laugh, then I get the HC players who get very uptight when I do so.

What does anybody else think?

I think thats the "grimdark" needs to be toned down a bit so that it's a little bit more beleiveable.

True to topic, the point is, doesn't anyone else think that fluff should be cross-checked with the actual game?

So two things.

A. W40k should be less "grimdark"
B. fluff should be beleivable to a game level.

Warhammer 40k has some contradictions like that pre-heresy cruiser which came out of warp after 20k years.

whatever it is its just a game.

GW have no interest in checking up on the fluff. that it is sometimes contradictory is neither here or there to them, and never has been. The BL stuff should not be taken as cannon for starters.

Looking at some of your points the Grimdark, funny as it may be, is what makes 40K - tone down the Grimdark and you are left with a very bland Sci-fi setting, and anyway what is believable about giant walking cathedrals with massive guns? Elves in space? and chainsaws as melee weapons? a God emporah? and Giant space toads in charge of everything? on many levels 40k is tongue in cheek - just enjoy it.

It's sci-fi, and I love the grim-dark setting (Well, at least the whole Cathedral with massive guns thing)

However, the fluff is often contradictory.

IvanTih wrote:Warhammer 40k has some contradictions like that pre-heresy cruiser which came out of warp after 20k years.

You don't know what 'contradiction' means, do you?

Evidently (sp) different people have different ideas about the 40k universe.
We know this.

There's definitely a lot that's not quite right with WH40K, such as technology being at a level that I'd expect humanity to be at in 300 years, not 38,000. However the grimdark and ridiculousness is what makes WH40K what it is. Yank that and it's just bleh.

Yeah, I don't really care much about the fluff.
Look at Commorragh, its a planet in the warp or webway on which the Dark Eldar live.

More a very large city with gravity that doesn't work in linear directions than a planet, but I'll grant you that it is odd. But still interesting. I think has to somewhat dull their reality circuits and work off internal logic for 40k. I mean, something as basic as a lasgun or a space marine can be discounted on scientific grounds.

Morgrim wrote:I mean, something as basic as a lasgun or a space marine can be discounted on scientific grounds.

Yes.

So can mechanical hearts, devices to improve hearing and methods by which people thousands of miles away from each other might communicate.

...Oh, wait...

Captain Solon wrote:Ok, I'm no super-player, and I'm definatly not a historbuff on fluff, but doesn't anybody else make jokes about the way w40k is set up?

I find, after reading BGB fluff, alot of it's contradictory and often corny, and it makes me laugh, then I get the HC players who get very uptight when I do so.

What does anybody else think?

I think thats the "grimdark" needs to be toned down a bit so that it's a little bit more beleiveable.

True to topic, the point is, doesn't anyone else think that fluff should be cross-checked with the actual game?

So two things.

A. W40k should be less "grimdark"
B. fluff should be beleivable to a game level.

Everyone have different taste , people have theirs , and you have yours.
They get uptight because its RUDE for you to laugh at them.

How old are you ?

He said he laughed at the fluff, not the other players. If someone takes offense because he finds the setting to be humorous, then they need a reality check. The guy can find it funny and laugh at the fluff if he wants to.

How old are you that you need to bring his age into this?

MagickalMemories wrote:

Morgrim wrote:I mean, something as basic as a lasgun or a space marine can be discounted on scientific grounds.

Yes.

So can mechanical hearts, devices to improve hearing and methods by which people thousands of miles away from each other might communicate.

...Oh, wait...

I have yet to be provided with a lasgun to smite the heretics who's hearts i can hear humming and puffing away hundreds of miles away.

The 40k universe is built on the ashes of high tech hence the clunking ramshackle tech and entrenched thoughts of technology being heretical -to some.

Praise the Ommnisiah (sp)!

Bookwrack wrote:

IvanTih wrote:Warhammer 40k has some contradictions like that pre-heresy cruiser which came out of warp after 20k years.

You don't know what 'contradiction' means, do you?

I know.

There's a saying I saw somewhere.

40k used to be silly and funny.

40k is now silly and unfunny.

Tyyr wrote:There's definitely a lot that's not quite right with WH40K, such as technology being at a level that I'd expect humanity to be at in 300 years, not 38,000. However the grimdark and ridiculousness is what makes WH40K what it is. Yank that and it's just bleh.

A lot of technology was lost in Age of Strife.I've heard that humanity during Dark Age could move star systems.

IvanTih wrote:

Tyyr wrote:There's definitely a lot that's not quite right with WH40K, such as technology being at a level that I'd expect humanity to be at in 300 years, not 38,000. However the grimdark and ridiculousness is what makes WH40K what it is. Yank that and it's just bleh.

A lot of technology was lost in Age of Strife.I've heard that humanity during Dark Age could move star systems.

Also, don't they copy old technology that is deemed acceptable, and hate all new technology by the xenos?

I am more surprised at the edlar. After living so long and being so advanced, they still only arm their regular infantry with weak guns.

wuestenfux wrote:Yeah, I don't really care much about the fluff.
Look at Commorragh, its a planet in the warp or webway on which the Dark Eldar live.

Morgrim wrote:More a very large city with gravity that doesn't work in linear directions than a planet, but I'll grant you that it is odd. But still interesting. I think has to somewhat dull their reality circuits and work off internal logic for 40k. I mean, something as basic as a lasgun or a space marine can be discounted on scientific grounds.

I always imagined that Commorragh was like cloud city in the warp (although WAAAAYYY spikyer)

Mr. Burning wrote:
I have yet to be provided with a lasgun to smite the heretics who's hearts i can hear humming and puffing away hundreds of miles away.

The 40k universe is built on the ashes of high tech hence the clunking ramshackle tech and entrenched thoughts of technology being heretical -to some.

Praise the Ommnisiah (sp)!

While that's very true, you should keep in mind that there was also a time when people had not yet been furnished with mechanical hearts, iron lungs, hearing aids and telephones.

Now, I'm not saying we ever WILL have a lasgun equivalent. What I'm saying is that claiming something's ridiculous/silly/etc., because we don't have it now and you can't envision it for the future is petty, silly and downright idiotic.

Eric

As far as the lower than expected tech-level, I always got the feeling that the world of 40K was supposed to be similar to the tail-end of the dark age following the fall of the Galactic Empire from Isaac Asimov's Foundation series, had the Foundation not been set up. Especially the lost-technology and the religion around technology. The conditions in the hive cities has shown up in more places than I can count.

The God-Emperor stuff and timescale, as well as the large-scale stagnation is mostly out of the Dune series. The whole grim-dark thing first off, justifies the constant warfare, and how people have no idea what is going on simultaneously. It is also similar to White Wolf's original World of Darkness' equally laughable descriptior of a "gothic punk" world. It sounded cool at the time and blood-alcohol level, but just kind of grew and stuck around.

And I feel like a huge nerd for suggesting this, but the technological stagnation strikes me as further justifiable through relativistic effects of space-travel and the similar effects of the warp. (think the Forever War). Time just passes a lot slower for these sorts. In short, believability takes some work, and most of the setting is a series of references to established golden- and silver- age SF writers and conventions.

The silliest grimdark statement I encountered was concerning the use of the master of ordnance, apparently a lot of shells were falling short and hitting Imperial lines "and whilst the loss of manpower was regrettable, the loss of precious munitions was unforgivable".

Am I supposed to believe the IG has more manpower than shells?

I think there's the right balance of cool and silly in 40k. You can only put so many skulls on something before it becomes a big joke. I like to take it seriously sometimes, but I do so through the eyes of a kid going "wowee, look at all those cool toys" and completely ignoring the practicality of it all. Is there any reason for a guy in power armor to be riding a wolf? No. Is it cool? Kind of. Is it funny? Incredibly.

Henners91 wrote:The silliest grimdark statement I encountered was concerning the use of the master of ordnance, apparently a lot of shells were falling short and hitting Imperial lines "and whilst the loss of manpower was regrettable, the loss of precious munitions was unforgivable".

Am I supposed to believe the IG has more manpower than shells?

Well, I think it's mainly a matter of the shells cost resources to produce and use, while a handful of guardsmen is easier to procure (Considering the Imperium is full of billions of worlds IIRC, most if not all of them filled with able-bodied men who are willing or unwilling to fight for their Emprah).

My FLGS simply uses the Rule of Cool for most stuff in 40k. As Brother SRM said - is it practical and feasible for a guy in heavy power armor to be riding a wolf? Well, no. Is it awesome? Heck yes.