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So after reading Shep and Mahu's early evaluations of the upcoming Tyranid codex, I took a look at my Tau list to see how I'd handle multiple monstrous creatures as well as multiple-wound T4 critters. Turns out that my lists don't really have a good solution, and taking a further look at the Tau arsenal, there are three weapons that are S8 or higher:

Railgun
Fusion Blaster
Seeker Missile

I picked S8 as the cutoff because it: A) Causes instant death on T4 critters, and B) Wounds T6 on a 2+. For the Tau arsenal, these weapons are AP3 or AP1, meaning that they'll ignore most armor saves out there.

I see the Fusion Blaster (it's a meltagun, really) as being a poor choice to try and use against 'Nids. Even with Jump-Shoot-Jump, the 12" range effectively means that you're going to get your face eaten very quickly; it also means that you can't start blasting away on Turn 1, and realistically you'll need to be causing wounds against the big critters every turn of the game. Piranhas may be slightly better off in this regard, but if you're close enough to take shots, chances are that something in the Tyranid army will have a side-armor shot, and being Open-Topped isn't doing the Piranha any favors.

The obvious choice to pick up the slack is the Railgun. The range is right, the strength is right, and it'll punch through any non-invulnerable save. The problem with Railguns the number of shots that you're getting. I run 1 Railhead and three Broadsides, which averages something like one wound per three Railgun shots if you're firing at something in cover (this is obviously doubled for things out in the open). That's not many wounds per turn; the Railgun (like the Fusion Blaster) are more optimised for killing vehicles than killing tanks. The other consideration is the submunition round; every solid shot from a Railhead is a whole swarm of 'gaunts that aren't getting pounded, so there is an opportunity cost there.

This leaves us with the Seeker Missile. One shot, needs a markerlight hit to fire. It does have unlimited range and hits on a 2+, but in reality, the range is limited to the 36" of the markerlight that guides the shot. Each missile performs about the same as a Railgun shot (if you consider the markerlight that guides the Seeker Missile; that is, the Railgun has similar performance if a markerlight increases its BS by 1). What this does is effectively give you a mini-alpha strike if you can get enough markerlight hits. Each wound early in the game on the big bugs is a big help later on, especially as the Tau scramble and sacrifice to avoid assaults on their critical units.

I do realize that Tau do have some other options for this (although they are not as optimal) in Missile Pods, Plasma Rifles and Pulse Rifle-type shots. The Tau do seem to have a problem really spamming high-strength weaponry, so I'm trying to figure out how to mitigate that.

I only run "take all comers" lists, so my big quandry right now is deciding whether or not to squeeze in some Seeker Missiles into my lists.

Thoughts?

Lots of seeker missiles would be great. Maybe taking three skyrays and then 2 units of pathinders to put out a lot of markerlights.

Also maybe consider running more broadsides as oppossed to hammerheads. 6 or 9 broadsides that can choose to fire at three to six targets with twin-linked S10 shots is nothing to laugh at.

I've never run this but the wall of pirhana build is popular amoung some tau players. On paper 15 open topped vehicles in big fat squadrons doesn't look good but some players swear by it. I'd suggest usings proxies before forking out for 15 pirhanas.

When I played Tau, tyranids were one of the armies that gave me the most fits. I usually could not deal with the MCs with my big guns and my firewarriors would get overrun by the gaunts more often than not. I wish you the best of luck.

Hopefully dashofpepper will find his way to this thread. He gives some of the best tau advice on this board IMO.

Don't underestimate the misslepod. A 3-man deathrain squad is pretty good against an MC. They have a total of 6 str 7 shots, that wound T6 on a 3+. That's not bad at all. They won't instant death T4, but they are easy to hit with and are very spammable. Consider using some.

`Nids are all but losing their 2+ saves, with the majority of their big stuff only having a 3+. I'd say take Ion Cannons if you're fighting `Nids to kill their big stuff. Relying on Instant Death for their Warriors will be a problem as well, as they're going to be getting a 4+ cover save from their Gaunt screens most of the time. In all, I'd say lots of AP3 shots to deal with the big guys, and just tons of small arms fire to take out the rest.

Yorick_of_Tau wrote:Don't underestimate the misslepod. A 3-man deathrain squad is pretty good against an MC. They have a total of 6 str 7 shots, that wound T6 on a 3+. That's not bad at all. They won't instant death T4, but they are easy to hit with and are very spammable. Consider using some.

A unit of three Deathrains will do an average of one wound per turn of shooting to a T6 3+ critter. Like I said, I see that as a good backup weapon, but I wouldn't rely on it.

Aduro wrote:`Nids are all but losing their 2+ saves, with the majority of their big stuff only having a 3+. I'd say take Ion Cannons if you're fighting `Nids to kill their big stuff. Relying on Instant Death for their Warriors will be a problem as well, as they're going to be getting a 4+ cover save from their Gaunt screens most of the time. In all, I'd say lots of AP3 shots to deal with the big guys, and just tons of small arms fire to take out the rest.

I already run an Ionhead, and have been very pleased with its performance.

Have you considered a Skyray?

I have, and I just don't like what it brings to the table. The only decent contribution a Skyray has is a pair of mobile markerlights (and you can actually get that with Marker Drones); I can get Seeker Missiles on other vehicles, and I'd rather have the Ion Cannon and Railgun with submunition round in my army.

I also run a sturdy 3 Broadside unit to round out my heavy support choices (shield drones, ASS, target lock, bonding knife).

I think you have to lean on the plasma rifle here. Insta-killing the T4 multi-wound stuff could potentially become a big deal, but its not looking like the strengths of the nid dex are the t4 stuff in mine and others opinions. Too early to tell for sure, but lets look at what you need to be scared of for what might be a typical list.

#1 scary nid MC for tau - trygon/mawloc. mawloc is a bit scarier than a trygon for tau, fortunately it isn't the scariest choice for all armies, so you'll probably see a good mix of both. No amount of skyrays are going to be able to take down a trygon in a turn, and it is likely that its bio-electric field will be pointed at your pathfinders, so i wouldn't call that a good counter. However, if you were facing a trygon and had an anti-deep strike formation, screening your battle suits with kroot, then you'll have the arrival turn to pepper the trygon with plasma, and then the turn after he charges and destroys the kroot you'll get to pepper him again. With all of that plasma and missile pod, he is sure to go down. Railguns can help here, but seeker missiles can't be massed enough to help IMO.

#2 scary nid MC for tau - Tyrannofex. 2+ save and six wounds. Seeker missiles will patter off it's hide, and it'll pull down your hammerheads. Fortunately, it doesn't currently seem to be all that popular. Here you'll just need railguns and perseverance. If he is given catalyst by a nearby tervigon, then railguns are the only long range answer, if he's getting cover you are going to have to take that cover away. He is a problem.

#3 scary nid MC for tau - tervigon. This guys won't be doing anything 'to' you, but as he'll be a troop and he'll be buffing his other troops, he is something you'll want to kill. Seekers won't help here either, if it is likely that you are going to go after him, he can catalyst himself and take FNP versus the missiles. I think a combination of broadsides and pathfinders is the only real way to take him down. If he does lumber close enough, adding plasma rifles at long range will marginalize catalyst and help to speed his demise.

#4 scary nid for tau - carnifex. It is possible that these guys could be handled with seeker missiles, but as the only one on the list that can be, I wouldn't build lists that way. the heavy venom cannon will be annoying, shaking and stunning your stuff as it lumbers forward, he isn't really something to fear like the trygon. Pick at him with spare shots, and once he gets close enough, use plasma rifles to finish the job.

#5... tyrant. tau are one of the armies that the tyrant just doesn't really have a purpose against. he'll be buffing his nearby friends for CC which he doesn't need to be doing, he'll be nerfing one units ws and bs, which won't hurt you due to the powers short range, and he'll be a late game close combat hitter, which gives you ample time to ignore him.


to summarize, I would stick to plasma rifles and rail weapons, just like you probably have already been doing. Nids don't really have much in the way of strength 8 ap3. their high strength stuff won't punch your crisis suit armor, all of their ap3 stuff is strength 6. So either way, you can hang around for quite a while with suits of both the crisis and the broadside variety. Hmmerheads should still be taken for their termagant busting capabilities, and of course kroot to screen charges, take on genestealers from cover, and provide even more anti-infantry.

in other words, run the list you've probably already been running.

I've been pondering this same thing. The t6 on the nid's is what is doing the kicking. The reduced strength on the plasma for tau is going to show some pain here.

For heavy support I would up it to 6 broadsides and an ion head. I run my b'sides a bit different than most people. I like multi-trackers and plasma rifles. I like the idea of pumping out 6 str 6 ap2 and 3 str 10 ap1 shots at something like terminators, or monstrous creatures that get close.

I'm also looking at incorporating some rail rifles into my pathfinder squads, maybe a 5 and 3 setup. Those 3 extra str6 ap3 shots could help to turn the tide against some big nasties, and the pinning could actually work depending on how much synapse they have out there.

If you are running large numbers of broadsides, the monstrous creatures aren't a threat. Each group of broadsides will bring down half of a monstrous creature per turn, so three are dead by turn 2. Turn 3, when monstrous creatures are usually in charge range, leaves them with only 2.5 MC's left, assuming you marker light where appropriate, you went first, and don't put a single other unit on shooting at them.

Meanwhile, your fire warriors can either deal out punishment where their small arms fire is most effective, or help bring down monstrous creatures. None of that takes into account that you have a number of options available to you for AP1 fusion blasters and such that can quickly cut through T6 save 2+ models, and presumably you either would have that or massive numbers of shots on your crisis and stealth suits.

Broadsides don't deal with hordes very effectively, but if it is specifically monstrous creatures you have problems with, they are a very effective answer to the problem.

I think Seeker Missiles are fantastic, especially since they can all fire first/ second turn get those nasies out of the way early.

I was going to post to maybe suggest using Vespid against 3+ TMC but maybe stick with Seekers.

Tau's biggest problem is getting overrun by gaunts. Mechtau would just laugh at TMC.

And people laughed when I stuck Plasma Rifles on my Broadside team leader...

I'm liking the two Broadside team going on...though maybe a Sniper Team instead of an Ionhead for the third choice. That's a lot of hurt.

As a mainly Bug player the more saves you have to take the worse because they all suck, and most MC only have a standard 3+ unless you drop another 20 pts on them each which wasntworth it to me. The broad sides were mean but nobody feilds enough of them to take down the MC hordes. Personally i would fear the massed suits over the broad sides. They can keep out range and distract better. But thats just me, they all taste the same in the end

I think this may be where the much maligned Sniper drone teams will start to come into their own yes it is only str 6 vs t6 but for only 1 heavy slot with a little marker support to strip cover saves and boost bs to 5 the full 9 man team could reasonably deal 3 wounds a turn by themselves. Hell they could even launch seeker missiles of their own combine that with the fact that they can glance and even pen rhinos, chimeras, and even glance valkyries while making meq's actually want to cling to their cover they might start making their way into all comer lists. I personally run them all the time and can't understand why people hate them so much.

I don't hate Sniper Drone teams (I've got three teams painted up, actually), but I have found that I'd simply rather have my two Hammerheads and my three Broadsides. I will give them a go if I'm having trouble with 'Nids, but the one thing I really dislike about them is that they lose a turn of shooting in Dawn of War missions. No other unit that I run has that problem.

Aftersong, I'd be very interested to see the Tau lists that you run. I'm guessing 6 Broadsides and no Hammerheads?

Why hello there! *munches on irony*

If I could rewind time and find the Tau posts that I wrote 6 months to a year ago about how fantastic a Tau gunline is, I would. =p

I also only bring "take-all-comers" lists, and my Tau list generally has two units of broadsides and a unit of sniper drones. My preferred suit configuration for my first team is "Helios" or Plasma/Fusion. Having a vast array of AP1, AP2, and AP3 weaponry isn't just for killing tyranids - it also evaporates MEQs, terminators, Nobs, and everything else. Depending on point level, I stick flamers on other suits (and an airburst frag launcher on my HQ) so that I have horde support. A Shas'o with BS5 dumping a large blast template that ignores cover on a hormogaunt squad, or a boys unit is a recipe for mass model removal.

Umm, I don't understand the problem, Fireknife suits deal with Tau MC's well enough. Just markerlight up the most dangerous ones and you shouldn't have any problem with them.

Do people run tau without 10 Fireknives?

Well as someone mentioned earlier the Piranha. I find Piranha walls are both a good source of str 8 ap 1 and when tailored can provide a good source of seeker missiles for an alpha strike.

Here's a list I just came up with and posted in the army lists forums as an example http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/272937.page#1235673.

I don't know enough about what kind of target priority we'll be dealing with vs the new nids so it's difficult to really say what the focus should be.