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I have seen Dash talk about the idea theming an army around putting lootas in stationary battlewagons. As I was trying to come up with a list that would support this concept, I ran into some trouble at 1500 points. Namely, that the lootas and their mobile bunkers consume almost 1000 points and I feel that I wont have enough troops. Below is the list I drew up.

HQ: KFF Big Mek: 85
T1: 30 Shootas (Nob w/klaw and BP): 220
T2: 30 Shootas (Nob w/klaw and BP): 220
E1: 15 Lootas: 225
E2: 15 Lootas: 225
E3: 15 Lootas: 225
HS: BW w/ Kannon: 100
HS: BW w/ Kannon: 100
HS: BW w/ Kannon: 100

So, my question is whether my list is flawed or is the loota-themed army not viable at 1500 points.

I like Dash but i disagree with his method. Lootas should be a low priority for the enemy, with most of the army charging quickly at the enemy and should never be sat in a transport.

Placing them in a battle wagon also cause some nasty problems. If Stunned or Shaken passengers cannot shoot. Doesn't take much work to shake 3 vehicles.

If i was to make a list with lootas using the above units ... well split up the boys and take 3 units of 20 (one of 19) and place them in the battle wagons. lootas look for some nice cover saves and set up. Now your opponent has to ether shoot at the fast approaching boys or the lootas.

*Disclaimer*: I am not Dash, and I don't profess to be any good at this game whatsoever. So don't take this as the gospel or anything close to it, it's just me asking Qs

Do you really need 3x Loota Wagons to go with the theme? At points as low as this, sticking to just 2 seems a lot more reasonable.

In addition, you have literally 2 weapons in the entire army that are realistically capable of hurting AV14... I know Orks are weak to AV14 and you really cannot do much about it, but this seems like it's giving up a little bit too much perhaps, especially as the two klaws you do have are not even mobile.

Maybe keep the third BW but stick a Boyz mob in it, give it a wreckin' ball and a boarding plank, and then make room for a couple of trukk squads with the same wreckin' ball+plank setup?



EDIT: I did see a Nob bikers + Loota BW list posted by Stelek once, though it was for the 2250 point level. It makes more sense in that setup however, as you have plenty of mobile PKs. Maybe a miniature version could work at 1500?

How are you going to summon him without playing the card?



That said, I agree with Tri. Dash is fond of the mech list to the point of excluding other possibilities most time. While I agree that mech is tough, and have adopted most of its tenets, I don't completely agree that lootas need to be "themed" to be effective. Lootas firing over people's heads is a great tool, and doesn't require wagons to make them safe. They can hit the table corners when stationed in the center of the board with devastating effect, and there aren't that many units that can return the favor. For those that can, you can typically count on numbers and cover to lean your direction on effectiveness. A loota in cover is like 7.5 points per wound instead of 15... Barely more point effective than shooting at a standard equipped boy.

If you played both ways (1 your way above, the other Tri's suggestion), you would probably find Tri's way works better. The priority target is the inbound wagons, not the lootas. Moreover, you could sport a few more models/klaws with all the points you saved on those kannons, which will likely never be fired on a mobile force.

If you are looking for a shooting based theme, you can meet success with just about anything that puts too many shots on the board for the opposing player to cope with. An older version of my list ran along the lines of:

4 groups of 30 shootas w/ klaw
3 groups of lootas
Boss w/ bike, squig, cybork, bike
Mek w/ KFF
Remainder go wherever (sometimes changing out one of the shoota groups to make them stormboyz to add a little bit of assault power to an overwhelming shot count).

Is it ideal? There are a lot of armies that can't do anything to it. At the same time, unless you luck out with klaws, you won't kill AV14, and you can anticipate losing 500 points of boys in a single assault if you get hit by a group of clustered fists, klaws, or assault terminators. The good news about the 500 points lost in poorly weighted CCs is that you can typically make it back up as you shoot and assault the offending units that wiped a flank.

The groups shouldn't be static, either. Shootas can move, shoot, and typically fair excellently in assaults as long as they are the ones assaulting and they aren't attacking full groups of CC-specialized units.

I'm thinking, drop the footsloggers, get 3 units of trukk boyz with fists, and maybe switch one of the battlewagon/loota combos for a nob squad in battle wagon (deff rolla?). Then they either shoot your shooters or your combat squads, splits the threats.

Y'see, what you have here is a basket case. As in you have a case full of eggs, and they're all in one collective basket.

With your 45 lootas, you're pumping out 30 s7 hits per turn on average. 24 wounds, with cover saves 12 (4+ from terrain) to 16 (only a KFF) regular Ork boyz go down per turn until they reach combat. A full Green Tide simply won't care, that's par for the course. On the other hand, mech Orks point their own Battlewagons' AV14 at you and laugh.

Ninja Tau laughs at you because you can't move and fire, so you're not getting a firing angle on the Shas'el with positional relay.

A single Land Raider + Assault Terminator squad will walk through your troops, with your Lootas never getting a shot on them. A drop pod or two makes for a bad day for your lootas still, too.

Guard will go into reserves except some indirect fire artillery, outflank melta vets and drop shells on your troops and wagons over terrain, plus their russes come on firing from reserves.

Yes, this is an intimidating force for some armies. CSM without land raiders should cry reading your list. Biker marines might as well stay in the case if you roll a KP game. Necrons have to pray to keep the wagons shaken and that their reserve rolls go right. But there's too many counters to your single point of strength. I just don't see you being adaptable enough with this army to truly be successful.

Carnuss wrote:How are you going to summon him without playing the card?

OK, that was awesome.

Can you PM on the where and how of getting one of those made up?

Thanks!

Alpharius wrote:
OK, that was awesome.

Can you PM on the where and how of getting one of those made up?

Thanks!

http://www.yugiohcardmaker.net/

Greetings, and a disclaimer: I started with honey mead (wanted to try it forever and its frikkin' tasty) and escalated into Captain Morgan, so I'm flaming drunk right now. I'm going to make a special effort to make sure that my words are coherent.

Taking a mechanized static firebase in 1500 points probably isn't a good idea - there's 300 points tied up in battlewagons that aren't doing anything except for protecting your Lootas. In 1850, that's a different story, but we're talking about 1500 points.

There's a THEME here that's important for you to remember: Static firebase, but still protected. In higher point games, you can protect your Lootas completely from being shot at by sticking them into battlewagons. While they *could* be stunned or shaken, in reality punching through AV14 with a 4+ cover save is not a walk in the park. Yet, you still need to protect your Lootas from picking up assaults from fast moving units.

My advice:

1. Keep your three units of Lootas. 675 points.

2. Add a unit of 29 gretchin + 2 runtherders: 107 points.

3. Surround your three units of Lootas with the unit of gretchin; make a bowl with your Lootas on the back table edge such that nothing can approach or assault your Lootas without tank shocking through your Gretchin. You can avoid the danger of things outflanking and tossing flamers at you by the positioning of your gretchin.

4. Don't worry about giving your enemy cover saves. All of your Lootas are going to get 4+ cover saves by being behind gretchin, and all of your enemies are going to get 4+ cover saves because you're firing through a unit too. Don't worry about it, your solution is volume of fire.

5. Tack in your two obligatory boy squads here, comprised of shootas (well done for not picking sluggas) and you've got another 440 points.

That puts you at a total of 1,222 points, and you have the important elements of your army. You're missing a mandatory HQ and I would encourage you NOT to use a Big mek with a KFF - why take a HQ just to get a 5+ cover save when you're already giving your entire freakin' army (or at least all the Lootas) a 4+ cover save?

6. Consider taking a big mek with a SAG. Stick him in with the gretchin. While they don't have mob rule, you do get to use the leadership of the runtherders, and you can bring squigs or whatever you like to prevent leadership catastrophies.

7. Alternatively, I'm a big fan of Zogwort or a warphead going into a footslogging list, and they obviously belong with a foot-slogging unit.

8. Doing all this means that you have a protected firebase - while not impervious to fire, your Lootas *will* have a 4+ cover save and a 48" range to protect them from a lot of enemies.

9. If you're playing 1500 points, you have 275 points to start fine-tuning your list. I think that you probably need more anti-tank. While people are a big fan of saying that Lootas can pop transports (and they do) using a squad of 15 Lootas, or 225 points to pop a 35 points or 50 point rhino to expose its contents feels absolutely wasteful. I think that you'd need to inject deff-koptas as this point to bring in rokkits and some buzzsaws for rear armor pwnage.

At this point you've got a dedicated firebase, a counter-assault mob (60 boys) that can also serve to handle objective based games, and some fast attacks to deal with rear armor. Obviously you don't have an easy answer to Land Raiders, but there's never an easy answer unless you're running a fully mechanized list replete with battlewagons, boarding planks, grabbin' klaws, nobs, and Ghazghkull as the cherry on top.

See if you can assemble that list - you should do well. Actually, let me caveat that. EVERY GAME should begin with you asking your opponent some very important questions about what threatens you the most. If you're running three squads of lootas, you want to know what outflanking units they have, what weapons those units are equipped with, what the range on their large blast templates is and what units those are with....so that you can prioritize those as targets.

Dashofpepper is now in play!!!

Carnuss, you crack me up and provide a reason for me to post on these forums. =p

Thanks Mr. Pepper. Would you be willing to sketch me out your ideal point value and list for the lootas in BWs?

Dashofpepper wrote:Greetings, and a disclaimer: I started with honey mead (wanted to try it forever and its frikkin' tasty) and escalated into Captain Morgan, so I'm flaming drunk right now. I'm going to make a special effort to make sure that my words are coherent.

OT but I've been wanting to try mead forever too; is there a brand or something that makes it?

I don't know about brands since this is the first time I've tried it, but here's the label on what I got:

Empire Winery and Distillery T&W

*American*
Royal Mead
Honey Wine
Made with Pride in Florida


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DooDoo wrote:Thanks Mr. Pepper. Would you be willing to sketch me out your ideal point value and list for the lootas in BWs?

I've done this elsewhere and owe the community a tactica at this point, but here's a rough list - you can work points for yourself:

3x units of Lootas
3x Battlewagons
1x unit of gretchin
1x Big Mek with KFF, with a couple grot oilers
2-4 squads of 30x shoota boys
Deffkoptas depending on point levels.

Basically, you're looking at 1850 to 2000 points to go wild; or 2500 points would serve as well.