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my first SM army and since ive never done mech before i decided to go for it! I'm pretty sure my sepcial wepeopn choices are off for the tac squads but hopefully you know what is better to put

Captain -115
-power sword

Tac Squad (10)- 200 (2 of these)
-melta gun
-multi melta
-sarge gets a power fist
rhino - 35

Tac Squad (9)- 195 (captain goes here)
-melta gun
-heavy bolter
-sarge gets a power fist
rhino - 35

Assault Squad (10) - 215
-2 flamers
Sarge gets a power fist

Vindicater - 150
-siege shield
-extra armour
-storm bolter

please tear this list apart I didn't even know where to start

Can you take a SW and HW in a squad thats not 10 man?

I think your Captain would be better in an Assault Squad with a Jump Pack. Better chance to get him in combat.

The Vindicator is a little upgraded so I'd probably trim it down a bit and use those points for the Captain.

o sorry just checked that so bump the number for tac squad 3 to 10
drop seige shield and extra armour on vindi to get my captain a jetpack

does that sound good?

deffskullz wrote:o sorry just checked that so bump the number for tac squad 3 to 10
drop seige shield and extra armour on vindi to get my captain a jetpack

does that sound good?

Yeah I'd be happy with that list.
Another thought would be to take a Chaplain over the Captain. He's a little less killy but he helps the Assault Squad which makes up for it I think.

Captain -200
-Jump pack
-Combi Flamer
- Relic Blade
-Artificer
-Melta bombs
-Aux Launcher
-Hellfire Rounds
-Digital Weapons

Tac Squad (10)- 200 (2 of these)
-melta gun
-multi melta
-sarge gets a power weapon, Combi Melta
rhino - 35

Assault Squad (10) - 220
Sarge gets a power fist and SS and Melta bombs

Dread - 150
-Flamer
-Twinlinked Auto Cannon
-Extra Armour
That's 988 assuming the Rhinos are included with the cost of the squads which I think they are but not sure. The shield will keep your Sarge alive longer and dropping the extra tac squad (That was under manned) should give you decent hitting power, plus the Dread gives you some more reliable control over Hoarde armies then what a Vindi could provide given your Tacs can hit most armour that gets in your way, with the Assault squad able to deal with the more mobile targets.
Also gives you room to play around with the list, because I can't find somthing to fill those last 12 points.

Though I know people are against putting that much into a captain, It'll make him a hard hitter.

Well for 200 point captain, might as well take Vulkan, which will make your entire army better. You have enough melta and flamer weapons to make vulkan worth while. Tho i would use vulkan in your first list, not your second.

Well, thats what I'd use because I have the medels for that, mostly. I don't know what OP has for pieces.
And looking over, you could almost take Shrike over the captain for the assaulty aspect.

well I haven't purchased anything for my army I normally plan my list (mostly) before most purchasing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
so any ideas on what the best HQ would be?

IMO, Vulkan is the way to go. I'll admit, I find the character rather cheesy, but you can't deny that he's really effective.

Vulkan-195

Tac Squad (10)- 200 (2 of these)
-melta gun
-multi melta
-sarge gets a power fist
rhino - 35

Tac Squad (9)- 195
-vulkan sits here?
-sarge gets a power fist
rhino - 35

Assault Squad (10) - 215
-2 flamers
Sarge gets a power fist

5 over..... any ideas?

This list will do you some good boyo:

HQ
Pedro Kantor=175

Elites
5 sternguard, 2 combi flamer, 3 combi melta=150

Razorback=40

Troops
Tact Squad
Meltagun, HB=175pts

Rhino,SB=45

Tact Squad
Meltagun, MM=175pts

Rhino,SB=45

Heavy support
2xThunderfire Cannons=200

Grand Total:1000

Throw Kantor and the SG in the Razorback, and let them cruise around in style. Put the rest in Rhinos, and let the Thunderfire sit in the back and pummel away. People will hate you for playing this list.

JEB_Stuart Take Pedro and only 5 sternguard? Why?

On this list:

Vulkan-195

Tac Squad (10)- 200 (2 of these)
-melta gun
-multi melta
-sarge gets a power fist
rhino - 35

Tac Squad (9)- 195
-vulkan sits here?
-sarge gets a power fist
rhino - 35

Assault Squad (10) - 215
-2 flamers
Sarge gets a power fist

You need to find the points to take the 10th man in the 3rd tac squad and you'll get far more dakka for him (remember a Rhino carries 12 so Vulkan can still hop inside). In fact it looks like you paid for him already? Take a flamer and missile launcher as you lack any real range. Also with eth extra 5 points you could upgrade the Rhino to a Razorback and then combat squad this tac squad so Vulkan the Sarge Flamer charge off in the Razorback whilst the missile launcher stays back to shoot.

However this army lacks any real punch IMO. With combat squading you can get 4 scoring units out of the 2 full tac squads which should be enough at 1,000 points.

Dropping that last Tac squad will enable you to take a unit of hammer terminators. And still have 35 points left to spend on assundry goodies (i.e. changing one of the tac squads to flamer and missile + Razorback with a weapons upgrade). Hammer Terminators + Vulkan = Win, always remember this equation .

FlingitNow wrote:JEB_Stuart Take Pedro and only 5 sternguard? Why?

Because in 1000 pts, more then 5 is overkill, and Kantor+Sternguard+Razorback=Very Lethal Combo. You can use the points that are just dumped into a huge SG squad elsewhere. Like I said, I think it is too much for such a small pt army, just like you wouldn't take 10 termies at this size of play, but YMMV.

Because in 1000 pts, more then 5 is overkill, and Kantor+Sternguard+Razorback=Very Lethal Combo. You can use the points that are just dumped into a huge SG squad elsewhere. Like I said, I think it is too much for such a small pt army, just like you wouldn't take 10 termies at this size of play, but YMMV.

Then don't take Pedro, he's simply not worth it unless you care taking at least 10 Sternguard at this point level. I'd DP them rather than Razorback them too. If you take 10 you can combat squad after the DS and both units still get the +1A for being within 12" of Pedro. Because of this I would be tempted to put a CC weapon on the Sarge too.

FlingitNow wrote:JEB_Stuart Take Pedro and only 5 sternguard? Why?

On this list:

Vulkan-195

Tac Squad (10)- 200 (2 of these)
-melta gun
-multi melta
-sarge gets a power fist
rhino - 35

Tac Squad (9)- 195
-vulkan sits here?
-sarge gets a power fist
rhino - 35

Assault Squad (10) - 215
-2 flamers
Sarge gets a power fist

You need to find the points to take the 10th man in the 3rd tac squad and you'll get far more dakka for him (remember a Rhino carries 12 so Vulkan can still hop inside). In fact it looks like you paid for him already? Take a flamer and missile launcher as you lack any real range. Also with eth extra 5 points you could upgrade the Rhino to a Razorback and then combat squad this tac squad so Vulkan the Sarge Flamer charge off in the Razorback whilst the missile launcher stays back to shoot.

However this army lacks any real punch IMO. With combat squading you can get 4 scoring units out of the 2 full tac squads which should be enough at 1,000 points.

Dropping that last Tac squad will enable you to take a unit of hammer terminators. And still have 35 points left to spend on assundry goodies (i.e. changing one of the tac squads to flamer and missile + Razorback with a weapons upgrade). Hammer Terminators + Vulkan = Win, always remember this equation .

first off my codex says rhinos can only carry 10 guys under the dedicated transport section
In the third tac squad I was going to take flamer multi melta but then i realized vulkan wanted someone to sit with and so some lone ork unit in a trukk doesnt smash him over
Combat squadding the 3rd unit so vulkan gets his enterouge (spelled right?) and i still get shooty but would be ok to still with a multi melta to keep with the theme
and would it be ok to load up the assault squad with melta bombs rather than a power fist and give him a power sword (im short a power fist modelling wise and on't want to pick one up because i don't know how much of a difference it will make)

You're right I was think DPs on the twelve models. Monday morning and all. You don't need to just take multi-meltas just because you have Vulkan sure you should take a lot but they are short ranged and unless mounted in attackbikes they are going to struggle to threat a fast moving army.

Most people will tell you that a Powerfist is better than a power weapon and meltabombs. You have already enough metla for dealing with tanks, whilst the fist will help you against walkers, MCs, ICs and infantry with T4 or better.

I still think your army lacks punch. The assault marines won't win against any other assault unit point for point even if they charge. The tac squads are good for area denial but are in general a bit meh when it comes to actually dishing out the pain. Yeah your opponent has a lot of power armour models to kill but he should be able to hold his objective because you don't have the hitting power and he can just contest the others, whilst in annihilation he'll slowly grind you down as you struggle to do any real damage or stop his "killer unit" if he has one.

how do you think i should modify it (it's my first marine army)?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh... just remembered termis so drop the 3rd tac squad for them but what would they have to ride around in?

My advice would be to take Hammer Terminators for the 3rd tac squad they are about as much punch as you can get. You can even walk them across the board they are so survivable or spread them across your gunline to give you cover saves.

A Vulkan list should really be a shooty list. So you can stick Vulkan in a Tac squad with a Razorback so you can either combat squad and send him forward or just sit next to it and use it as mobile LoS blocking and Heavy Bolter platform.

The idea is the shoot the enemy as they advance and then counter attack them with your flamers, Vulkan and Hammerers just before they get to your lines. Should you face an army that can outshoot you (Tau or IG) they'll suck in CC so mount up and teleport the terminators in to wreck them.

ok so a revised list would be

Vulkan He'stan-195

Assault terminators (5)-200
thunder hammers

Tac squad (10)-235 (2 of these)
multi melta
melta
rhino
sarge gets a power fist

Assault Marines (10)-235
2 flamers
power fist

Yeah that looks pretty solid.

deffskullz wrote:Vulkan He'stan-195

Expensive HQ choice for 1000 pts. I would go Chaplain or Libby. I love the Librarians personally, but if your a big fan of Cheese'Stan he is effective.

Assault terminators (5)-200
thunder hammers

While nice in a Vulcan list they really need a Land Raider, but at 1000pts that adds up quick. Marching them across the board is just silly, even with a +2(+3) it doesn't take a whole lot of firepower to get 5 wounds on you slogging across the field. You could Deep strike them but I am not a big fan of that.

Tac squad (10)-235 (2 of these)
multi melta
melta
rhino
sarge gets a power fist

Perfect. Although I am starting to use Power Weapons instead of Power Fists on my Sgts. Also Razorbacks are really nice to have at this point level.

Assault Marines (10)-235
2 flamers
power fist

While am not a big fan of Assault Marines (love the models just not the way they perform) they can move pretty quick but they are gunna get eaten up out in the open, you will have to use your rhinos to screen them as they move up

Here is my recommendation

HQ: Space Marine Chaplain (1#, 125 pts)
. . 1 Space Marine Chaplain @ 125 pts (...in Power Armour)
. . . . 1 ...in Power Armour (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Rosarius; Digital Weapons; Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol; Crozius Arcanum)

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 250 pts)
. . 9 Tactical Squad @ 250 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Multi-Melta; Razorback)
. . . . 1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Combi-Meltagun; Power Fist)
. . . . 1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter)

Troops: Tactical Squad (11#, 250 pts)
. . 9 Tactical Squad @ 250 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x9; Bolter x7; Meltagun; Multi-Melta; Razorback)
. . . . 1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Combi-Meltagun; Power Fist)
. . . . 1 Razorback (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Twin Linked Heavy Bolter)

Fast Attack: Assault Squad (10#, 235 pts)
. . 9 Assault Squad @ 235 pts (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Pack; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol x7; Chainsword x9; Flamer; Flamer)
. . . . 1 Sergeant (Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Pack; Power Armour; Bolt Pistol; Power Fist)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Heavy Flamer x1; Multi-Melta x1)

Fast Attack: Land Speeder Squadron (1#, 70 pts)
. . 1 Land Speeder Squadron @ 70 pts (Heavy Flamer x1; Multi-Melta x1)

Total Roster Cost: 1000

Marching them across the board is just silly, even with a +2(+3) it doesn't take a whole lot of firepower to get 5 wounds on you slogging across the field. You could Deep strike them but I am not a big fan of that.

Not a lot? On average 90 space marine bolt shots! Or 90 Tau Pulserifle shots. The only thing that will threaten hammer terminators at this point level is hordes in clopse combat. So just avoid units of 30 Boys or 30+ Nids and they should be fairly unstoppable even footslogging. Plus if you're going Vulkan (and I never said he should) then you should commit and get in the Hammer Terminators.

Perfect. Although I am starting to use Power Weapons instead of Power Fists on my Sgts. Also Razorbacks are really nice to have at this point level.

Why Power weapons? No real punch and no incentive to not just charge you with an IC and beat the hell out of you. Razorbacks are good but how will the multimeltas get into range if he combat squads?

While am not a big fan of Assault Marines (love the models just not the way they perform) they can move pretty quick but they are gunna get eaten up out in the open, you will have to use your rhinos to screen them as they move up

Agreed. And finally about your list you've just posted!!! Very good nothing I'd change except dumping the tac squad multimetas for Missile launchers for range if they are being combat squaded (and given the OP seems determined to use assault marines).

FlingitNow wrote:

Not a lot? On average 90 space marine bolt shots! Or 90 Tau Pulserifle shots. The only thing that will threaten hammer terminators at this point level is hordes in clopse combat. So just avoid units of 30 Boys or 30+ Nids and they should be fairly unstoppable even footslogging. Plus if you're going Vulkan (and I never said he should) then you should commit and get in the Hammer Terminators.

24 Pulse Rifle shots = Average of 8 wounds with 1.33 unsaved to be exact

Not really sure how some footslogging terminators can pick and choose who they are gunna end up engaged with, but if it works for you rock on.

Why Power weapons? No real punch and no incentive to not just charge you with an IC and beat the hell out of you. Razorbacks are good but how will the multimeltas get into range if he combat squads?

IC? maybe a MC or walker but with your ability to avoid units you don't want to fight why would this be a problem to you?

The extra attack, no armour saves, and space marines natural durability make this unit really good at killing other troop choices like it's suppose to.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

FlingitNow wrote:
Agreed. And finally about your list you've just posted!!! Very good nothing I'd change except dumping the tac squad multimetas for Missile launchers for range if they are being combat squaded (and given the OP seems determined to use assault marines).

Yeah agreed on the Rocket Launchers wasn't thinking about that. Don't really need the multi-meltas anyways got two on the speeders and two in each tactical squad

24 Pulse Rifle shots = Average of 8 wounds with 1.33 unsaved to be exact

What is your point? 90 Pulse Rifle shots = 30 wounds 5 unsaved wounds (hence my point).

Not really sure how some footslogging terminators can pick and choose who they are gunna end up engaged with, but if it works for you rock on.

Never said they could but Nid and Ork hordes normally reside in Nid and Ork horde armies hence against these armies you don't send the Terminators forward you use them to counter assault, robbed of FA even the hordes shouldn't be too much of a worry for the Terminators.

IC? maybe a MC or walker but with your ability to avoid units you don't want to fight why would this be a problem to you?

At this point level there is a good chance at least one of your tac squads will end up fighting an IC do you want to be able to instant death him or not? Also Walkers and as you pointed out MCs and thus you main bulk of the army has to avoid ALOT of things. I've never said I can avoid everything I don;t want to figth with everything. But protecting your most valuable unit or 2 to ensure they get their desired target is the most basic level of tactics that exist...

The extra attack, no armour saves, and space marines natural durability make this unit really good at killing other troop choices like it's suppose to.

Not Orks or nids, whilst being pretty redundant against Guard or Tau too (as they'll die anyway). Also won't give you enough "punch" against Necrons. So what exactly is it that useful against? You'll still lose the other marines (as they'll have been sensible and taken the Power fist) and still lose to Choas Marines or Grey Hunters or blood claws. So what exact troop choices is it help against again please?

FlingitNow wrote:Then don't take Pedro, he's simply not worth it unless you care taking at least 10 Sternguard at this point level. I'd DP them rather than Razorback them too. If you take 10 you can combat squad after the DS and both units still get the +1A for being within 12" of Pedro. Because of this I would be tempted to put a CC weapon on the Sarge too.

No, that is just dumb. Kantor is always worth the points, even if you don't take a full 10 man squad of Sternguard. Notice, I didn't say drop the SG entirely, I said reduce their numbers. Kantor is cheap, and gives you Stubborn, which really, really helps in small games, especially against the new nids. Taking 10 SG at this level is ridiculous, and will take away points from meching up, which trust me, is needed against horde armies. This helps to balance the game at this point level, especially since horde armies are already at an advantage at this level.

deffskullz wrote:ok so a revised list would be

Vulkan He'stan-195

Assault terminators (5)-200
thunder hammers

Tac squad (10)-235 (2 of these)
multi melta
melta
rhino
sarge gets a power fist

Assault Marines (10)-235
2 flamers
power fist

No, no, no and no. This list will get you killed. You are spending way to many points on special guys and not enough on essentials. Drop the Assault Marines. They are fun, but not that competitive. Put in TWO Thunderfire cannons and you will make people fear you. While TH/SS Termies are way cool, they don't belong in such a low point value game. They are just to fragile and will die under weight of attacks, especially if they aren't in a LR. If you put in Kantor and a 5 man Sternguard squad you will have an extra scoring unit.

No, that is just dumb. Kantor is always worth the points, even if you don't take a full 10 man squad of Sternguard. Notice, I didn't say drop the SG entirely, I said reduce their numbers. Kantor is cheap, and gives you Stubborn, which really, really helps in small games, especially against the new nids. Taking 10 SG at this level is ridiculous, and will take away points from meching up, which trust me, is needed against horde armies. This helps to balance the game at this point level, especially since horde armies are already at an advantage at this level.

He's not particularly cheap, you are talking like 'Nids are the only army out there. I don't see how stubborn is an advantage over combat tactics at any point level. I also don't know of a SM scoring unit that is better at dealing with Nids (both horde and zilla) than Sternguard. Give them 2 heavy flamers and a smattering of combi flamers and they can toast a squad a in a turn. They've also got hellfire and dragonfire to whittle the numbers down on the way in.

No, no, no and no. This list will get you killed. You are spending way to many points on special guys and not enough on essentials. Drop the Assault Marines. They are fun, but not that competitive. Put in TWO Thunderfire cannons and you will make people fear you. While TH/SS Termies are way cool, they don't belong in such a low point value game. They are just to fragile and will die under weight of attacks, especially if they aren't in a LR. If you put in Kantor and a 5 man Sternguard squad you will have an extra scoring unit.

I think everyone is in agreement on the assault marines. You say don't spend 200 points on hammer terminators because they are fragile, yet you suggest spending 200 points on Thunderfire cannons?!?!?! Sorry which is by far the more fragile out of 2 thunderfire cannons and 5 Hammer Terminators? Given that for instance 6 S4 hits will on average kill half a Terminator and 1 Thunderfire cannon...

I think they'd work well together Thunderfires soften the infantry as they advance the Hammerers deal with anything nasty or mounted. Though if this is your tactic you need long range transport popping ability in the tac squads so Missile launchers or Lascannons. Which means that maybe Vulkan's not the best option for this tactic.

people are saying that my list is looking not that good.....
my only thing to start this was that I want to have it be mostly MEQ
but then someone said that vulkan would be the best choice for the amount of meltas i have in the list.....so i put him in
the assault squad is in there because 1 I like the models and
2 im getting 10 of them in a trade and would like to lose them and I didn't realize they were THAT bad....

I do really like the idea of doing a Vulkan list
so could somebody write me a list loosely based on my first?

FlingitNow wrote: blah blah blah

I do things different and it works for me. I am passing my experiences and info to Deffskullz


Automatically Appended Next Post:

deffskullz wrote:people are saying that my list is looking not that good.....
my only thing to start this was that I want to have it be mostly MEQ

Not sure what your saying here... Space Marines are... MEQ...

but then someone said that vulkan would be the best choice for the amount of meltas i have in the list.....so i put him in

that's kool we are just saying he's a bit steep for your 1000 points limit you set

the assault squad is in there because 1 I like the models and
2 im getting 10 of them in a trade and would like to lose them and I didn't realize they were THAT bad....

It seems the consensus is that Assault Marines are not that great. I have a 10 man squad that seems to fail me for the cost of them most of the time that I used them. Your mileage may vary.

I do really like the idea of doing a Vulkan list
so could somebody write me a list loosely based on my first?

I thought you already did up there

sorry by MEQ i meant mechanized ( i frequently mix em up)

other people were saying about my newest list was that it wouldnt stand a chance I am wondering if this is true or not i guess.....

so now the question is

will my list survive in a semi-casual gaming enviroment

deffskullz wrote:will my list survive in a semi-casual gaming enviroment

Depends on the people you play with....