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What changes are coming to the game industry in 2010? The D6G team pulls out their crystal ball and attempts to answer that very question. Heck, we might even be right about one or two.

Later, a favorite segment makes a return: Mulling Mechanics. This time around we look at board game mechanics. What are some common mechanics, how do they work, and what do we think of them.

Plus, there may or may not be some discussion of Avatar throughout the episode. We just can't help it.



All that and our usual 'not too horrible' humor, with features such as:

- The Hollywood Minute
- Rapid Fire
- What's in the News
- Words from Wales
- Total Fan Girl
- & More

Please let us know what you think!

Link: http://thed6generation.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=569434

I've gotta say, I think you guys were way off-base with a lot of your predictions, particularly in the tabletop RPG area.

The backlash against D&D 4e seems to be, from all the evidence I can find (retailer discussions, public indicators of sales figures), an internet tempest in a teacup. The 3.5 style of game (pathfinder, etc) isn't exactly a runaway success among the same people complaining about 4e, but I don't think Pathfinder is a sales failure either.

I think the major thing that is going to hold back the Fantasy Flight RPGs is their price point. The 60 dollar price point for the Dark Heresy rulebook is a hefty chunk of change, whether you think it's worth it or not, and I honestly think the 100 dollar price point for the new edition of WFRP is a bit ridiculous.

Edit: The price point sort of applies to the FFG board games too. They're good games, but I'm wondering if the market is moving more towards card/board game hybrids like Dominion and Thunderstone, and even the light component FFG games like Battlestar Galactica as opposed to giant, "tons of plastic pieces" games like Descent or Twilight Imperium. Cheaper, faster playing games seem like the way of the future as tabletop games become more mainstream.

I've got to say, Triphos, that I think you have an excellent point also. Locally we've seen D&D take a hit with our friend's playing groups, but there doesn't seem to be a glut of the books in stores or such, unlike the WHFRPG boxes, which seem to be stacking up.

And I think the marketing, in $100 chunks, WILL contribute to WHFRP making a weak impression.

Not sure about the boardgames as a whole. I think the trend MIGHT be to quicker games, but I also think there are enough fans of the long, tons-o-plastic games out there to continue that thread as well.

But we shall see, I'm sure.

Triphos wrote:I've gotta say, I think you guys were way off-base with a lot of your predictions, particularly in the tabletop RPG area.

The backlash against D&D 4e seems to be, from all the evidence I can find (retailer discussions, public indicators of sales figures), an internet tempest in a teacup. The 3.5 style of game (pathfinder, etc) isn't exactly a runaway success among the same people complaining about 4e, but I don't think Pathfinder is a sales failure either.

I think the major thing that is going to hold back the Fantasy Flight RPGs is their price point. The 60 dollar price point for the Dark Heresy rulebook is a hefty chunk of change, whether you think it's worth it or not, and I honestly think the 100 dollar price point for the new edition of WFRP is a bit ridiculous.

Edit: The price point sort of applies to the FFG board games too. They're good games, but I'm wondering if the market is moving more towards card/board game hybrids like Dominion and Thunderstone, and even the light component FFG games like Battlestar Galactica as opposed to giant, "tons of plastic pieces" games like Descent or Twilight Imperium. Cheaper, faster playing games seem like the way of the future as tabletop games become more mainstream.

Hi Triphos,

Good points here.

D&D4e: My comments on D&D4 were based mostly on the observations of both what I saw at GenCon 2009 (huge lines at the Pathfinder booth, little activity with Wizards, non-D&D RPG's doing well at the Ennies and Origin awards) as well as what we've seen locally. In our local groups D&D4 hit with much excitement, then fizzled and folks are moving on to other RPG experiences. I'm not saying D&D is dead, but that Wizards will try to do something major this year to bring the excitement back.

Price Point: I'm not sure FFG RPG's are much more expensive than the competition. Rogue Trader @ $60 is on par with the Players Handbook & DMG purchases required to play. WHFB comes with all you need as well, and the dice. Again if you add all the resources required by other RPG's I think the price is about the same. Perhaps it is a marketing mistake to require the initial outlay in a $100 purchase, but in terms of value, I'm not sure FFG is more expensive.

Board Game Prices I agree, there will be 'affordable' options like Dominion and other games. But there will also be a market for the 'mega-game' that you buy 1 or 2 of a year.

Thanks for the feedback,

Russ

P.S. Speaking of value: For some reasons $45 for a fancy box of cards (Dominion) feels more expensive to me than $100 for a box of miniatures, dice, and dungeon tiles (Descent). But maybe that's just my old miniature war gamer background showing through.

Another great episode guys. I really enjoyed the predictions and even Craig's renditions of "In the year 2010!!.."

I'd like to add a prediction of my own that I was thinking about earlier as I was perusing the FFG site. I was reading about their new Event Center in Minnesota.

I predict that in 2010, Fantasy Flight will use their new Event Center as a test model and possibly deepen their collaboration with GW to the point that the two companies will begin to open a few joint Event Center/stores in larger markets. Either that, or GW will remodel the Battle Bunkers to share with FFG.

Oh, and if I can just chime in on the Avatar discussion for a moment, I'd like to say that, even though I mostly agree with everything that was said in the episode, I did like the movie. That's because I saw it as a good popcorn flick (as opposed to horrible ones like Transformers 2). Oh sure, it's not very smart, and it could have been done a lot better, but I was certainly entertained.

The Unobtainium thing did kind of irritate me at first, but then I thought about the real periodic table. Ever looked at the higher elements? Americium? Einsteinium? Or, my personal favorite, Californium! I can just imagine two scientists saying something like this-

*begin surfer voice*

"Hey Dude! Check out this wicked new element I discovered!"
-"Dude! That's awesome! What're ya gonna call it?"
*both look at each other for a moment and then yell in unison- "Californium!!"
*both perform air guitar riff*

I mean, if scientists can really name an element Californium, then I'll give James a pass on Unobtainium.

Really there was only one thing that bothered me throughout the entire movie. It was Sigorney Weaver's avatar. I kept looking at her and wondering why she looked so strange. Then it hit me. Unlike all of the other avatar bodies, who's noses were all flat like a cat, Sigorney's avatar inexplicably had her own human-shaped nose. It was her entire face plastered onto that big blue body instead of just facial elements like the other two (Sully and Norm).
Maybe there was a deleted scene that explains she's using an older model avatar. Maybe she (the actress) didn't like how it looked and had James change it. Who knows? But it was weird.

You know, I thought the same thing about her face! It struck me that she looked just like her human and it drove me nuts. I got that they all looked like their human versions, but she was just like you said, just Sigourney on a blue face. I didn't figure out that it was the nose though, and I think you're right. That is what makes her look more similar than everyone else. Weird.

The avatars were a mix of human and Navi DNA. If you noticed, Sully's hands looked like human hands but the Navi hands did not.

Oh, I know they were a mix, it's just that I found that somehow Sigourney seemed to get a lot more of the human than her fellow hybrids.

Probably something more like her being a big name star and wanting more face time (even if it was CGI) and the others being no-name actors.

I'm about half-way through the show; I will say that my local group dropped 3.5 like a hot rock for 4.0 and are happy with it. We have gone through two modules now. Of course I'm hoping they are just as happy with the Rogue Trader game I'm now running (thanks again Raef). None of them have expressed any interest in Pathfinder. Perhaps we are the minority.

I love 4th Ed I do. My mates and I always enjoy. Having been a big D and D type back in second ed I understand that it may not be to everyone's tastes but as I am now older and find game organisation time hard to come by I like it.

Also

Dont worry Raef , Craig didnt thank me either , not that it bothers ,me I mean I still havent got on the opening credits as The Drago girl still holds that honour.

Not bitter me .

Avatar Rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!
As for the bloke who didnt like Americans being protrayed in Films as Horrible uncaring Conquering swines, I say try being British and having to go to the Cinema for the last 80 years or so.

Diolch

Owen

Brits make better bad guys cause your accents are cooler.

A few other things...

Russ- I really liked the new music you had for some of the bumps early in the show. Nice to mix it up occasionally.

Owen- I totally agree about you being left out of the opening credits. Why can't Owen and Ken get a little opening credit's lovin' Russ?

Oh and no offense to the Drago gal, because it was cute for a while, but it is getting a little old. How about a voicemail contest for the new "loyal listeners" credit?

Nicole & Ozy- I didn't notice the hands. Perhaps there will be a deleted scene on the DVD explaining why human traits were expressed more fully in some avatar's than others.
I know the DVD will be high on Nicole's buy list

Lastly, I am also fully vested in the 4E camp. As a tabletop gamer, I really like how it brings roleplaying and miniature battles together. I also like how everything's a cool ability now. It's not totally up to the GM to bring flavor to every swing of your sword. Now, that swing of your sword is just as exciting as the fireball your wizard buddy just tossed.

I'm halfway through the episode, but have to jump in on the issue of Russ' Blood Bowl prediction. I recently occurred to me that GW could very likely be modelling its sales plans on the Disney model of putting DVDs of "classics" into "the vault," and thus protecting their IP by artificially limiting access to it in the marketplace. With Space Hulk, GW basically printed a ton of cash for itself on demand. Blood Bowl and Man O' War could be two similar properties for GW. That model, plus the licensing of the IP to FFG (and others?) could carry GW from a business perspective. From a "make nice with fans" perspective, not so much.

On the issue of Avatar. I found it visually engrossing, but mentally empty (though the idea of forest as data-network was interesting to me). District 9 was a far better (and vastly cheaper) movie, with an equally obvious (more obvious?) political overtone. Avatar is like a date with hot chick with a really annoying voice. You stare, but you keep muttering "Shut UP" in your head the whole time. District 9 is more like a date with a hot, crazy chick. You know you are in for something, you don't know exactly what, and you're a little worried it might hurt.

Nevertheless, the technical achievement of Avatar is astounding. After all, I fell asleep during Dances With Wolves, but not in Avatar.

Oh, and Owen is right. Which is why he is now doing segments on TWIW. THANK YOU Owen.

BTW - I have written an article which appears in this months " Tales of Basttle" magazine. It explores the pitfalls of travelling to the US and the differences in the gaming scene accorss the Pond (hate that saying).

Check it out if you get a chance

Diolch

Owen

I sat through Avatar on Saturday with my two boys. Got a headache from the 3D glasses whcihc didn't really predispose me towards enjoyment. Also, I was sort of distracted by how close a resemblance Sully bore to Michael Owen!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Owen
.


Great show, as usual though.

I just finished listening to the prediction section and wanted to share some thoughts:

1) Multi-function devices. This trend will fail for several reasons. a. Right now multi-function cell phones rock because they are the new coolness but they turn over quickly because of upgrades and cheap replacements. When it costs $600 for a new device that trend will end. b. Second is the DVD/VCR combo factor; these machines suck because sooner or later either component gives out and then the device is worthless because you have to get a new version of the failed bit. Again, this is camouflaged by the phones because of turnover but when that ceases being a factor...

2) MMOs addiction. The MMO's addicts fall into two categories (IMHO) a. The just one more page kind of person who likes beating challenges (such as they are on MMOs) and just wants to get to the next level the same way a book addict just wants to finish the next chapter because they want to see what is next (that analogy fails to hold because at the end of the book you've read a story but you guys covered that in the duscussion and I am fully on board with that). b. The real my real life sucks player is the person who's real life sucks, or at least they perceive it to and the twenty color world of Warcraft (or whatever) is so much more fun and the people they meet are so much more interesting than real life. I am of the opinion (arrogant perhaps) that they are often shy or lack social skills or maturity to deal with real people in the real world and MMOs provide them a cushion to interact free of embarassment. Or, they just crave the sort of false adventure that the Warcraft provides. These are the same people that are depressed after watching Avatar because Earth isn't as pretty as Pandora

3) Tech devices as gaming aids. I don't think this trend will take off too much; most of us don't want to have to depend on some "app" to roll our dice. We want to be able to play our TTGs at our FLGS that may not have wifi or when our battery runs out.

4) As much as I do enjoy D&D 4, I will backpedal slightly and say that it does feel like D&D's star is in descent somewhat; I don't think WoTC has handled it well in recent years and I feel like the game is being eclipsed by so many other great games.

The Conan O'Brian reference is kind of poingnant considering recent developments at NBC, but it was highly entertaining.

I look forward to seeing of you guys are Gamstradamuses or Dionne Warwick of gaming predictions.
Wait, that doesn't work, none of your predictions were vague enought for Nostradamus.

Gee . . . um . . . ok.

Um . . . Clearly, a great deal of thanks is owed to both Owen and Ken. Your segments are great, and we wish you wild success resurrecting the TWIW property.

My year end thanks were to the folks behind the scenes, for the most part, that don't get a voice on the show, but obviously, as it torqued 'Hollywood' as well as Owen and Ken . . . I guess certain personality types are more susceptible to feelings of exclusion and persecution than others . . .

So, a big thank you to Raef, Russ, Owen, Ken, Nicole, Karen, Ross, Curt, Romeo, Colen, Dan, Sara, Navin, Aaron, Adam, Adan, Abigail, Adrian, AJ, Alan, Alex, Alexander, Alfredo, Amber, Andrea, Andrew (F, H, H, R, T), Armand, Arthur, Asylos, BG, Batter, Ben, Bennet, Blacknight, Brendan, Brian (A, B, G, H, K, Z), Britton, Bryan, Buzz, Byron, Carl, Carmen, Carol, Casey,

. . . you know what?

That last little bit of the segment where I said "and anyone I might have forgotten" . . . well, as painful as you might find it to be in that category . . .

consider yourselves covered by that final 'CYA' clause at the end.

So, thank you, everyone.

Now I'm going to go take a tylenol and lay down.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn, and you know what? I really need to thank Dann May, too, who worked for weeks on our logos and such asking nothing at all in return.

And Steve 'The Lawyer From Texas' for a SLEW of new sound, again unsolicited and asking nothing in return.

See, this is the trouble you get into saying thank you to people . . . there are SO many people who make this show what it is, I'm going to forget legions of them at a time! And then, obviously, feel like crap about it.

So, thank you all, sorry for making anyone feel left out, and have a great day.

~Craig

Tertius wrote:
On the issue of Avatar. I found it visually engrossing, but mentally empty (though the idea of forest as data-network was interesting to me). District 9 was a far better (and vastly cheaper) movie, with an equally obvious (more obvious?) political overtone. Avatar is like a date with hot chick with a really annoying voice. You stare, but you keep muttering "Shut UP" in your head the whole time. District 9 is more like a date with a hot, crazy chick. You know you are in for something, you don't know exactly what, and you're a little worried it might hurt.

That is the best Avatar analogy ever! It was, in fact, so good I would retweet if this was twitter...

I think this is the best episode of the show so far. The predictions were very interesting, and i almost wished I could have been in the cast to throw my opinion in as well >.< But I can't so I'm just gonna post 1 thing in here.

I'm a college student who has been playing RPGs for a little less than 10 years, and I feel like 4th edition is, over all, my favorite RPG I have ever played. I've played 3.5, call of cthulhu, world of darkness, dark heresy, rogue trader, etc etc. My impression of every RPG I played up until 4th ed was that they weren't actually good games. The only reason people (including me) like them so much is because it's a great way to hang out with your friends. They are all broken, they all have serious mistakes in certain parts of their design, and that stuff makes them a pain to play at certain points. I'm not saying they aren't fun, but the game design is not what makes them interesting. It's the fact that you get to make up a story with your friends. 4th ed is the only RPG I have played where I can stay engaged through the entire course of a battle, simply because the way the game is designed actually makes it interesting to me. The way the powers interact with eachother is very cool, and it has a lot more strategic depth than other RPG's I have played. Other RPGs usually are just like, "you get to move, and you get to hit them or shoot them once. Then the next person does that." 4th ed evolves on that system by making each character's actions much more unique than they have been in previous dnd editions, or any of the other RPGs I have played, not to mention the fact that there were very few overpowered abbilities, and that wizards is actively re-balancing books they have already released through errata, almost like a war game! It's great!

Also, about WoW being worse than investing all your time into table top games; I disagree. You may not be creating something physical, but having a strong character in the game is definitely something that matters to certain people, even if you can't pick it up and hold it in your hand. I don't like WoW myself, but I can relate in a certain way. I play Street Fighter 4 probably about as much, or more than many WoW players play their game, and I'm not even leveling up a character. I just like the way I feel when I win and improve my game, and all the friend's I've made through the game mean just as much to me as the friends I have made through tabletop gaming.

Anyways, great, great podcast! Keep up the good work d6g!

edit: I'm actually still going through the ep and I just got to the part about DDI failing. It may not be as cool as it used to be, but I would say the only part about it that failed was the game table. The character builder is awesome, the online magazines are incredible, and I am a very happy subscriber. I think it's a success.

Thanks for the kind words about the show everyone.

D&D4: I'm very glad that so many are enjoying D&D4. I really enjoyed it as well when I played it, and I also felt it was a good direction. Hopefully the squeaky wheel folks are in the minority and D&D4 is actually doing very well. This is one prediction I hope I am very wrong about.

All-in-one Device: I used to be in the 'all in one' camp, but I've since moved to the multiple single use device camp for some things. I have a very nice GPS thing in my phone, but I still steal my wife's GPS system from her car whenever I go on long trips, because it is just easier to use while driving. I used to have my MP3 player and Phone as one device, until the headphone jack broke, and replacing the phone was a nightmare due to all the stupid data plan rules. Now I use a Zune and my phone is a cheap 'free with plan' phone. I agree with Craig we will see more all-in-ones in 2010, but I also think we'll start to see more uni-task devices. You could buy the $600 kick-ass phone that does everything pretty well. Or you could get the 'free' phone with a plan, a $150 MP3 player, and $150 GPS, and a $250 e-reader. It still ends up being cheaper, every device is the perfect size for what it does, and if one breaks you don't loose all your functionality and replacement cost is cheaper.


Intro: I like the idea of another audio contest with the prize being a sound bite in the intro. That is brilliant.

Owen and Ken: I think it goes without saying that we appreciate Owen and Ken's contributions. Ken obviously has exceptional musical knowledge. And Owen is exceptionally tolerable for a Welshman.

To the entire D6 crew: Great Shows...one of the few podcasts my wife will listen to with me.

Russ, Craig, and Raef: Quit selling me more games!! >.< What? Do you guys work on commission with all LGS? Seriously though...Love hearing you guys go over games and your thoughts in general.

Nicole: What can we say...When Wives Attack was a favorite segment....Total FanGirl is one too

To Owen: Your were in Being Human?? We LOVE that show. And, by the way, your our favorite Welshman.

To Ken: Keep them coming. The Score is inspiring several of my games.

Thanks for all the kind words TredHed!

So what should the audio contest be...you guys have any ideas?

RussWakelin wrote:
Intro: I like the idea of another audio contest with the prize being a sound bite in the intro. That is brilliant.

You read it here first folks! Russ said an idea of mine was brilliant!

I had a slightly different idea from my first and this could be handled several different ways, if you like it

What if the sound bite was this- "This is _______, and I listen to the D6G because _________.
It would have to be kept short to use in the intro, although if you wanted to use it as a bumper instead they could be a bit longer.

You could hold a contest for the the most humorous one(s), but I think that might be overlooking a great opportunity.

What if you either-
A. Added another ebay auction to be that show's intro/bumper.
B. For a donation, the fan's sound bite goes into a pool to be rotated through.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and just wanted to say that I like your Fett hat Russ.

These are different, but you might like these too:
http://store.neweracap.jp/pc/contents3/feature_starwars02.aspx

Yes in Episodes 3 and 5 of Being Human series 2. Play Vampire killing Cop

G'day guys,

I'm not a big forum user (for anything), but I was really impressed with this episode!
Reason?
Game Mechanics
I thought this was one of the most insightful, informative pieces of podcasting i've heard anywhere for a long time.
It even got me going back to BGG and checking out their mechanic descriptions - something i've been meaning to do for ages.

More of this general information would be fantastic in 2010!

P.S. I identify with HD as a gamer, but i'll play anything if it's pretty enough...

tacet wrote:G'day guys,

I'm not a big forum user (for anything), but I was really impressed with this episode!
Reason?
Game Mechanics
I thought this was one of the most insightful, informative pieces of podcasting i've heard anywhere for a long time.
It even got me going back to BGG and checking out their mechanic descriptions - something i've been meaning to do for ages.

More of this general information would be fantastic in 2010!

P.S. I identify with HD as a gamer, but i'll play anything if it's pretty enough...

Glad you enjoyed that segment. The analysis segments are my favs as well. Hopefully the muse will strike more often for those types of bits in 2010.

To Owen on the issue of American televison reimaging British TV shows: So I now have permission to blame the Brits for American Idol?

Re: Avatar - I've been really amused with all the hype and controversy surrounding Avatar. Come on, it's Hollywood (the movie-making community, not the jimmy-jangoin' cohost). It's not like the ideology that's trumpeted in this movie isn't trumpeted in 20 other movies each year. No big deal IMHO. What I will be curious to hear about is reactions to The Book of Eli which to me was the perfect anithesis of Avatar; coming close to making the same ultimate point while taking a totally different path.

Also, regarding Russ' prediction about Hordes MK launching this year instead of next - I thought I seen or heard some time last year (during the WM field test) that the plan was to release WM MK in January and Hordes MK2 at the '10 GenCon. Was I just imagining that?

Vladigar wrote:Also, regarding Russ' prediction about Hordes MK launching this year instead of next - I thought I seen or heard some time last year (during the WM field test) that the plan was to release WM MK in January and Hordes MK2 at the '10 GenCon. Was I just imagining that?

I was also under the same assumption as they were advertising of doing 12 books in one year.

Thanks for the kind words, guys. Just saw Book of Eli yesterday, and I have to say that as a story, I enjoyed it far more than Avatar. In ultimate theme and underlying point I'm not sure what it had in common with Avatar, however. There were good guys, there were bad guys, there were misunderstood cannibals. But I saw no gross stereotypes in any of those directions (especially the cannibals).

I went in forewarned that there would be 'a twist' at the end, and wish I'd paid closer attention throughout the film after it was revealed, as there is no "here's what you didn't notice" montage such as M. Night Shamalamadingdong ended 6th Sense with. I may just have to go back and watch it again, just to see.

Sherlock Holmes (double header, baby!), however, not so much. It was moderately entertaining, and I think Robert Downey Jr. is a great actor. But over-all I thought it was just sort of meh.

Yes Blame us for American Idol - It started out as Pop Idol in the UK, which has now become Xfactor which you will be getting soon.
Britains got Talent became America's got Talent (oh the Irony).

American Red Dwarf was awful and Died as well