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Based off the other thread with a similar name. In the current meta, do people still think that C:SMurfs can make competitive armylists that go toe-to-toe with the new IG, SW, and Nid dexes? I know C:SM is a very flexible codex with pretty solid choices in each FOC slot, but can it make top tier lists?

This should be in the Army List forum.

But on topic, yes, of course.

So long as players can think outside the Dual-Lash Daemon Princes/Plague Marines/Obliterator box then they should be able to figure it out.

All of the units in the army list have utility, even Spawn. The nice thing is that players exist that have the ability and the courage to think outside of the internet echo chamber. See: Darkhound, Night Lords, and others who don't post as regularly.

The trick is to go beyond the army lists and take a look at what stuff actually does on the table, and then come back to the army list. If anything it's good that the Imperial Guard, Space Wolf, and Tyranid books will be shaking people out of ruts.

Edit:

Okay, I should take some of my own advice about reading more carefully (see, this is what happens).

Same principles apply though, and I think people may see better results if they concentrate more on the meat and potatos of the list rather than on the bells and whistles.

That's the other thread, N. This is about the good guy marines.

In general, the SM list is more focused on over-lapping support from each unit, where-as CSM can act a bit more solo.

Again, mech is recommended...I guess the hardest part about SM is what troops you'll use.
Scouts, Tacticals, 'Bikers'.
Each one has their own niche, and if you take them full strength in 2 troop FoC, it's a sizable number of points.

There are a wealth of options in the dex...making a list has a lot of freedom:
-get troops to support the other elements.
or
-get the other elements to support the troops.

All personal taste.

Gornall wrote:Based off the other thread with a similar name. In the current meta, do people still think that C:SMurfs can make competitive armylists that go toe-to-toe with the new IG, SW, and Nid dexes? I know C:SM is a very flexible codex with pretty solid choices in each FOC slot, but can it make top tier lists?

Yes and no. It will require you to take the power units that work well against those specific threats.

In other words, against a guard gunline I might run pods. Against mech guard, maybe a spearhead kind of list. Against nids, who knows, haven't played against the new dex. Against Wolves, lots of anti-footslogging units, Terminators, things like that.

The real question should be, "How to create a competitive C:SM army for all-comers?".

Vanilla Marines have some excellent power units. TH/SS Terminators, Librarians w/ Avenger + Null Zone, MM/HF Speeders, etc. Unfortunately, Vanilla Marines also have, IMO, one of the least favorable troops choices in the game. And, also unfortunately, their power units are only good against specific threats. While MM/HF Land Speeders are versatile, they have to be in the right place at the right time to provide the punch, and often don't survive the aftermath. TH/SS Terminators die to massed fire and high A enemies. Librarians' powers are only useful in certain circumstances.

All I can say is, if you're playing in a friendly store-style environment, you can tailor your list even for local tournies, because you have an idea more or less of who will be showing up, and what they'll be using. If you're playing tournies against unknowns, well...you'd better bring your lucky dice and your game face.

Lately I've been impressed with the power of a really Vanilla SM list. Lots of full Tactical squads with Rhinos/Razorbacks can actually work fairly well if you support them with some shooting (Dakkapred), maybe a Dread or two.

They're not necessarily going to win you a GT, but they have so many bodies, and a moderate amount of firepower, that if you park them in cover and blast away, you can win a lot of games. Not the next big thing, but way underrated, IMO.

Phryxis wrote:Lately I've been impressed with the power of a really Vanilla SM list. Lots of full Tactical squads with Rhinos/Razorbacks can actually work fairly well if you support them with some shooting (Dakkapred), maybe a Dread or two.

They're not necessarily going to win you a GT, but they have so many bodies, and a moderate amount of firepower, that if you park them in cover and blast away, you can win a lot of games. Not the next big thing, but way underrated, IMO.

This has been my experience as well. I've found that 4 full Tactical squads at 1750+ points is an amazingly resilient core when supported by cheaper shooting units. I usually find that I can pack 40 tactical marines with max heavies, specials and powerfists supported by Razorbacks along with 2 Predator variants, a Thunderfire or Whirlwind, and at least 5 attack bikes into 1750 points. Its alot of shooting that is difficult to pry out of covered positions. I typically eshew special characters of all flavors for a simple Null Zone & Avenger librarian.

Well, I used a mech SM army in the recent RTT and it performed really well (see battle report).