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A unit embarked on a vehicle can suffer casualties in any number of ways (PBS perils, commissar executes, plasma/snazzguns get hot, perils, etc.). If they remain embarked on the vehicle at the end of the phase, do they need to take a morale test? Alternately a unit takes casualties in the movement phase, then embarks on to a vehicle (for example, they walk through dangerous terrain and then embark), do they need a morale test?

If embarked units which have suffered > 25% casualties need a test, and fail it, how do they behave?

Answers I've seen:

#1: No, they are on a vehicle/not on the table/auto-pass due to faith in the vehicle:
#2: Yes, and if they fail they just sit there because they can't disembark as part of their fall back
#3: Yes, and if they fail they disembark and run 2d6
#4: Yes, and if they fail die because they can't move their full fall back distance

All four answers are correct and also wrong.

In short: There really is no correct answer as the rules do not cover this situation.

#1 is not true, as they are not exempt from the morale test - nothing states they are.

So you end up with the situation that you need to take a morale test, but dont know what to do if you fail.

#4 is the rules as they're written in the book. Nothing in the transport rules exempts or protects an embarked unit from making morale checks. An embarked unit can't move; there's nothing which allows an falling back unit to move, and a unit which cannot perform its fallback move get destroyed.

Options 1-3 are the result of people going "Oh, that's just stupid!" and either ignoring or house ruling around one of the steps in the chain of events which destroys the unit.

In my opinion, option #3 is the most reasonable compromise. Just to make something up completely, it would be nicely thematic if a falling back embarked unit was forced to use the emergency disembark rules.

I also don't see anything in the rulebook saying that you can't shoot at a unit embarked in a transport. I see where it says that transport vehicles provide some speed and protection, but nothing about not being able to shoot at them.

I've always played that an embarked unit is impervious until they disembark or get their transport shot out from under them, but that's not supported anywhere in the rules is it?

Dashofpepper wrote:I also don't see anything in the rulebook saying that you can't shoot at a unit embarked in a transport. I see where it says that transport vehicles provide some speed and protection, but nothing about not being able to shoot at them.

I've always played that an embarked unit is impervious until they disembark or get their transport shot out from under them, but that's not supported anywhere in the rules is it?

The only one I know of is TLOS, as you can't see them you can't shoot them. And models are removed from the table while embarked.

padixon wrote:

The only one I know of is TLOS, as you can't see them you can't shoot them. And models are removed from the table while embarked.

And what about open-topped vehicles? An ork trukk with a bunch of boys sitting out in the open in the back? A dark eldar raider that doesn't even have walls - all the Dark Eldar just hang off the sides as they rush into combat?

I know, but units embarked in 'any' transport are removed from the table, unless you know people who actually try to fit and balance all their DE on to the raider's platform or all of the ork's into their truck. Funny enough I actually do have like one or more models in either my truck or raider as it looks kinda cool...I guess I better stop doing that as someone may try to shoot them some day hehehe.

If they're removed from the table....then how can you inflict a leadership test, or a morale check onto that unit?

There's a similar example with the ork boarding plank. It lets a single ork model cross the boarding plank and assault an enemy vehicle without disembarking. If you blow up the enemy vehicle, does the ork that killed it take a STR3 hit from the explosion? I don't think so...

Dashofpepper wrote:If they're removed from the table....then how can you inflict a leadership test, or a morale check onto that unit?

There's a similar example with the ork boarding plank. It lets a single ork model cross the boarding plank and assault an enemy vehicle without disembarking. If you blow up the enemy vehicle, does the ork that killed it take a STR3 hit from the explosion? I don't think so...

very good point! I can find nothing to disagree with this. EDIT: however units can still shoot out of a transport while off the table, and Psychers can still take LD tests to cast spells...its like the unit is quasi on the table.

I think they're phased into the 4th dimension. o.O This has interesting ramifications for models in transports secretly being necron-fans...

Yea unfortunately the BRB does specifically say that units inside of buildings may not be targeted but says nothing about vehicles. However, I'd hold to to "they are removed from the table" clause, because even though you may still stick them on your truck or raider to make it look cooler or easier for your opponent to tell which transport is embarked it still doesn't change the fact that, in game terms, the models have been effectively "removed from the table" and may now shoot either from a firepoint or the edge of the hull depending on whether its open topped (does anybody measure orks shooting from the back of the battle wagon or truck where the models are located?).

You can't target a unit inside a vehicle as you need LoS to the unit. There is no way to draw LoS to an embarked unit, even if you stick a member on top of the vehicle as a marker or if the the vehicle is open topped.

I would say yes to causing a leadership test. There is nothing that exempts them from the test. Their reaction is what remains questionable and I think that they disembark and run to the table edge is the most logical comprimise.