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So I'm tentatively looking at getting into the game as the FLGS is starting up an escalation league. Looking at getting Cryx because they look cool flipping thru the book, and for the same reason thought I'd use Asphyxious for the Warcaster. I have only the slightest knowledge of the very basic concepts of the rules. Looking on the website at the gallery, I noticed there are two different figs for Asphyxious, one of which is listed at an Epic Warcaster. Does that have a bearing on the game or is it simply a bigger, cooler fig for the same rules?

The epic warcaster/ name character is an updated version of the original character. Characters have gone through some life changing experience, for example Makeda learned about Vinter's betrayal of skorne, and that changes how the character see life and wages war.

It used to have difference in WM Mk1, epic could only be taken in 750 pts or larger games, but that restriction was removed in Mk2. The epic is basically the same character later in the timeline, with different stat, spell list and equipment. PP developers have also hinted that some characters may be getting third incarnation at some future expansion.

As an example see dakka articles on Stryker and Epic Stryker.

Also, you can't use the same character in the same army list.

So if you have Eiryss, you can't use Eiryss, Angel of Retribution.

It's part of the PP design to upgrade entire models rather than make the models
themselves upgradeable through a weapon selection system.

From the outside (rulebooks have yet to come) WM/H! feels more and more like the love child of 40k and MtG raised in the shadow of D&D minis.

Manchu wrote:From the outside (rulebooks have yet to come) WM/H! feels more and more like the love child of 40k and MtG raised in the shadow of D&D minis.

That sounds like it could be either horribly cool or just horrible.

Well, from what everyone says the verdict seems to be horribly cool. I sent a friend Blue Table's overview of Hordes and Mini Wargaming's review. His response: "SOLD."

@Aduro: Cryx? Don't you already play Necrons?

While Cryx have the robot undead thing going on, they don't have a similar playstyle at all. Cryx is all about being fast, fragile and de-buffing the enemy. Oh, and expendable or exploding infantry.

And CC, right?

So is there some silly rule that I can't use the "epic" rule for a regular model?

Seems like I would just be paying more points for an upgrade.

In the Mark 1 rules you couldnt play an epic caster unless you were playing at a certain point level, but in mark 2 you can always opt to play the epic version. Also in Mark 2 your warcaster/warlock never cost you points, conversely they give you warjack/warbeast points. The Regular and epic versions of a caster have different spells and abilities so you would probably want to review witch one you want. As for "Can i play the epic fig for regular version" thats usually up to the FLGS or the TO. I would personally allow it

Depends on the level of competition. Casual play is probably fine, but in competitive play
some of the epic models are different enough that players do get mixed up while under
time pressure.

As always, in the end it's up to your TO. At Gencon, for instance, all models had to
be exactly the model or a conversion of the original model. Or something like that.

And an Epic version of a warcaster isn't exactly an upgrade. It's more of another version of the character as their personal story evolves. They usually have a different method of play, rather than just being bigger and better.

Manchu wrote:And CC, right?

Oh, yes, this too.

Yay, I'm learning!

The Power Cosmic wrote:And an Epic version of a warcaster isn't exactly an upgrade. It's more of another version of the character as their personal story evolves. They usually have a different method of play, rather than just being bigger and better.

This concept really appeals to me. So the caster hasn't just "leveled," as it were, but has a truly evolved feeling if you follow the story?

Yes. They're not more powerful. Like, Prime Stryker in mark 1 is a support/unit protection/all rounder caster, whereas Epic Stryker is an angry melee beatstick, to represent him going a bit darkside after what happened in the storyline with Menoth.
(that's my understanding of it anyway!)

Yeah. Similarly, Magnus the Traitor is an excellent 'jack caster, representing him only relying on himself and keeping things on the down low. But as he has grown his power, he's got more assets to draw on, making his Epic version, Magnus the Warlord more of an all-around 'caster who's good with troops and 'jacks. Not better, just different.

Even these abbreviated examples are extremely relevant to my interests. I cannot wait for the books to get here.

I know, right? I was super excited when the details of the merc contracts came out (along with Magnus' tier lists). That book can't come out soon enough.

Manchu wrote:@Aduro: Cryx? Don't you already play Necrons?

I already plan to convert them (gasp!) with Necron bitz and themes and paint them the same scheme as my Necrons. If I can't have good Necron army rules in one game, I'll find them good rules in a different game! Bwuahahaha!

Aduro wrote:I already plan to convert them (gasp!) with Necron bitz and themes and paint them the same scheme as my Necrons. If I can't have good Necron army rules in one game, I'll find them good rules in a different game! Bwuahahaha!

Truly insidious!

I actually like Cryx a lot myself. I really can't decide on a faction in either Hordes or WM. With Hordes, I like several a lot. With WM, I don't like any of them enough.

I was originally going to play Khador, because my thought on Warmachine is I'm in it to play big meks, so I'll play the faction that has the biggest meks. Then I was flipping thru someone's rule book and saw Asphyxious and remembered how much I loved that fig and some of the other Cryx figs. Apparently there's just one guy in the group who plays em, and he's apparently leaving soon, so I also get to be my usual freakishly unique self.

It used to be freakishly unique to play Amon Ad Raza :(

What made you think of that, Mal? The other thread?

Manchu wrote:What made you think of that, Mal? The other thread?

Yes and no.

Mk2 Amon is a vast improvement over MK1 Amon, let's just say. He was a weird
'jack caster who relied on mobility, standing still, dodging attacks, and making
Tough rolls.

No one should ever RELY on making Tough rolls

Da Boss wrote:No one should ever RELY on making Tough rolls

If you're a 'jack caster who has to stand still to get extra focus with a spell called
mobility, it's pretty much the best you can hope for.

mortal888 wrote:So is there some silly rule that I can't use the "epic" rule for a regular model?

Seems like I would just be paying more points for an upgrade.

Actually in some cases, you pay less points Kreoss and Sorscha actually give you one more point to spend when you take their epic versions. Most are equal, some give you less . And in most cases, it's not really an upgrade, but a completely different set of powers.

Locally we don't have many problems using the Epic miniature for the regular and vice versa. Though the miniatures are usually cool enough that the person grabs the proper one eventually.

Yeah, I have the problem of normal skarre having a butt-ugly miniature (In my opinion obviously) but epic sklarre is beautifull... Therefore I have the epic model and play it as the normal skarre...

Now the new skarre figure is a lot prettyer and chances are greatly improving that she will be added...

LordRavurion wrote:Yeah, I have the problem of normal skarre having a butt-ugly miniature (In my opinion obviously) but epic sklarre is beautifull... Therefore I have the epic model and play it as the normal skarre...

Now the new skarre figure is a lot prettyer and chances are greatly improving that she will be added...

I had the same problem with pNemo, the model was so ugly I couldn't think of it as the center piece of my force. The new sculpt is brilliant and fixes this issue.

Yeah, my issue is that I just won't plan for a force if I don't like the sculpt. It's
why I had trouble selecting a non-epic 'caster or 'lock to play regularly. Epic
Severius and Epic Kreoss became my go-to guys, as did Borka Kegslayer.