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Thinking of what to buy for my footslogging army. With the points i have left i can either go for two biker warbosses (for tankbusting) or a SAG and biker warboss.


What should i do?



p.s. for those who have seen my post from weeks back regarding the synergy of my favourite units i have finally found an army list that is appealing and fits all my favourite units

You would do better making one of those choices a BigMek with KFF.

My flgs usually plays tons of terrain so i don't find i will really need it when i can just move into 4+ cover

daemon wrote:My flgs usually plays tons of terrain so i don't find i will really need it when i can just move into 4+ cover

And if you plan to only play on boards with "tons of terrain" then perhaps you can forego using a KFF BigMek,in wich case I would take the 2 Bosses simply for the option of having two Nobz mobz as troop choices...(but that's me)

Big Mek with SAG is always good for a laugh though. and the ord. large blast is always awesome, if it goes your way.

Which is more effective disregarding points?

SAG or Biker Warboss?

For a footslogging army with the only other auxiliary units to the mob is stormboyz and snikrot

SAG, purely so he can lay down some ord. fire while the rest of the boys are advancing.

Are you running the biker warboss alone? You didnt mention nob bikers, or even regular warbikers. If so, he's gonna be zooming out ahead of the rest of the horde, and possibly leave himself stranded and left as a major fire magnet, and could possibly go down before he even hits the lines

I love my Biker Warboss (bought the Forgeworld mini, expensive, but so worth it to see my opponent's face when I lay him lovingly down surrounded by his biker minions) because he can chew through Dreadnoughts and tanks with ease. But unsupported he has the survivability of a headgehog on a motorway.

I've never used a SAG myself, not bought one yet, but I reckon you're going to want one of them unless you can get some boyz to back up da bikerboss

Are biker warbosses really that fragile by themselves? I suppose i could go with a SAG then attach the warboss to snikrot so when he comes in from reserve he can detach from snikrot

Ronin wrote:
Are you running the biker warboss alone? You didnt mention nob bikers, or even regular warbikers. If so, he's gonna be zooming out ahead of the rest of the horde, and possibly leave himself stranded and left as a major fire magnet, and could possibly go down before he even hits the lines

People assume because there aren't bikers that the warboss is going to be alone, but I find he works just fine being attached to the stormboyz at the beginning of movement, moving the stormboyz 12+1d6" and the warboss separately, turbo-boosting as necessary to keep up and ending his move within 2" of them to rejoin the unit at the end of the movement phase. Stops the stormboyz from running but they generally don't need to, especially turn 1. At that point you can keep the boss with them or split him off to hit one unit while the stormies WAAAGH! into another.

As far as the question of the SAG goes, if you have a unit of gretchin to put him with he's alright, but the best part of the SAG is the AP 2 and firing through a horde you will be giving all your foes 4+ cover saves. I'd say the boss would be more effective but the SAG more fun.

Clever use of the biker boss with the stormboyz.

Generally, I prefer the biker boss because of the SAG unpredictable nature. I know what my 145-pt power klaw biker boss is going to do.

daemon wrote:Are biker warbosses really that fragile by themselves? I suppose i could go with a SAG then attach the warboss to snikrot so when he comes in from reserve he can detach from snikrot

Biker bosses are kind of fragile. 1 str10 hit and he's toast, but str10 isn't always a common thing on the field, depending on the army you're facing. Also, without a squad for extra wounds, so enough shots/bad dice rolls will put him down fairly quick at times. On the other hand, the bike can help you cruise out of LOS to charge the next turn, or herd the enemy towards the boyz- stand where you are, and the boss will come for you. Move away to avoid the boss, and you're getting awfully close to the mobs of boyz... damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Seconding the clever use of biker boss with stormboyz. I'm a big fan of jumppack troops, and stormboyz don't get a whole lot of love.

Culler wrote:

Ronin wrote:
Are you running the biker warboss alone? You didnt mention nob bikers, or even regular warbikers. If so, he's gonna be zooming out ahead of the rest of the horde, and possibly leave himself stranded and left as a major fire magnet, and could possibly go down before he even hits the lines

People assume because there aren't bikers that the warboss is going to be alone, but I find he works just fine being attached to the stormboyz at the beginning of movement, moving the stormboyz 12+1d6" and the warboss separately, turbo-boosting as necessary to keep up and ending his move within 2" of them to rejoin the unit at the end of the movement phase. Stops the stormboyz from running but they generally don't need to, especially turn 1. At that point you can keep the boss with them or split him off to hit one unit while the stormies WAAAGH! into another.

As far as the question of the SAG goes, if you have a unit of gretchin to put him with he's alright, but the best part of the SAG is the AP 2 and firing through a horde you will be giving all your foes 4+ cover saves. I'd say the boss would be more effective but the SAG more fun.

Since the SAG is Ordnance, I don't think the enemy gets any cover from you firing through your horde.

Also, I don't think Stormboyz are even allowed to run - am I wrong on this?

number9dream wrote:
Since the SAG is Ordnance, I don't think the enemy gets any cover from you firing through your horde.

The term you're looking for would be "barrage" which would count cover saves from the hole of the blast template instead of from the firing model, which the SAG is not. Ordnance in this case just has special rules for penetrating vehicles.

number9dream wrote:Also, I don't think Stormboyz are even allowed to run - am I wrong on this?

Stormboyz are treated as infantry for all aspects of the shooting phase, including running.
(So 12" + d6" from stormboyz special rule + d6" from running + 6" charge for 18" + 2d6" WAAAGH! assault range makes stormboyz the fastest assault unit in the game).

Thanks guys i think i will go with two warbosses for the punch and switch up to a SAG if needed later. I will definitely be trying out that stormboy tactic Culler.

Culler wrote:
As far as the question of the SAG goes, if you have a unit of gretchin to put him with he's alright, but the best part of the SAG is the AP 2 and firing through a horde you will be giving all your foes 4+ cover saves. I'd say the boss would be more effective but the SAG more fun.

Good idea, running the SAG with the grots. Havent thought of that. Been wanting to field an SAG mek for fun, without having him risk a squad of Lootas or Shoota boys to mishaps.

SAG all the way for the sheer orkiness of it.

I've got it figured. I will go with the biker warboss for now but if it doesn't work out so well i will switch up one boss for a SAG and 18 grots with herder. It is the exact same points...I think. Well something like that

Culler wrote:

number9dream wrote:
Since the SAG is Ordnance, I don't think the enemy gets any cover from you firing through your horde.

The term you're looking for would be "barrage" which would count cover saves from the hole of the blast template instead of from the firing model, which the SAG is not. Ordnance in this case just has special rules for penetrating vehicles.

number9dream wrote:Also, I don't think Stormboyz are even allowed to run - am I wrong on this?

Stormboyz are treated as infantry for all aspects of the shooting phase, including running.
(So 12" + d6" from stormboyz special rule + d6" from running + 6" charge for 18" + 2d6" WAAAGH! assault range makes stormboyz the fastest assault unit in the game).

Hehe it's funny, I actually looked it up to be sure... Of course, I wrote "ordnance" and looked up the rules for "barrage". Oops.

Man, it doesn't make much sense to get a cover save from a SAG tho.

And damn, didn't realize stormboyz were quite that fast - that's impressive =]

EDIT: Oh wait, I just remembered the Ork FAQ says that Stormboyz can't Waaagh :( They can run, but they don't get fleet so they can't assault after that.

Arg...

If you're running a foot-slogging genuine tide, I think you should forgo the SAG and a second warboss; nobs really don't belong in foot-slogging armies. Things that would serve you well though would be Mad Dok Grotsnik or a warphead.

well one biker warboss is a for sure. I have enough points to either go for a SAG and 15 grots or zogwort...I have no idea if zoggy would do well in my list though as i only have 3 squads of boyz

number9dream wrote:
EDIT: Oh wait, I just remembered the Ork FAQ says that Stormboyz can't Waaagh :( They can run, but they don't get fleet so they can't assault after that.

Arg, forgot. That's my bad, I haven't fielded stormboyz in quite a while (though I love the models and will probably get some just because, I'll find some way to make them work awesomely like a trailing line to a KFF or behind battlewagons)

Dashofpepper wrote:
If you're running a foot-slogging genuine tide, I think you should forgo the SAG and a second warboss; nobs really don't belong in foot-slogging armies. Things that would serve you well though would be Mad Dok Grotsnik or a warphead.

I think Dash means warboss when he says nobs don't belong in foot-slogging armies (that or he means a nob squad, which you aren't taking IIRC.) PK nobs are a must-have. Mad Dok Grotsnik does work crazy well in a footslogging list. Him and 30 sluggas are extremely tough and killy, more than the total cost of 375 or so would indicate. It's like a stand-in for a unit of nob bikers. They're not as fast and only 1 PK but they're more resilient, especially if you put them behind a grot screen or something for 4+ cover. I deploy Grotsnik in the back against assault armies and the front against ranged armies to PK tanks. You have virtually no control over them but with such a big footprint they get the job done very well, and at higher points giving them cybork makes them even better. Laugh maniacally as your opponent throws heavy flamers and hellhounds and gryphons and small arms fire and heavy bolters and autocannons and it all bounces right off. Then laugh even more when their uber assault unit charges and does jack all. I ran one such unit in the 'ard boyz prelims and it was pretty much pure gold, taking berzerker and terminator charges like they were nothing.

Yeah they are absolutely gorgeous models, wish they could do something more useful tho - like anti-tank or something.

I'm a huge fan of Biker Bosses. He's great for taking out (with support) those things that MUST die NOW. Or, unsupported, he can go do terrible, terrible things to units like 10 necrons who just came out of reserve, long fangs in cover, any IG artillery (more risky, but you know it's going down), small objective holders...

t6 makes him quite resistant to most infantry, so you can dakkagun + charge away (dakkaguns are nice because you know you won't shoot yourself out of an assault without some amazing rolls)


But, as dash said, if you're running a primarily Green Tide list, I recommend Grotsnik for 30 FNP boyz. mmmm.

HMMMM GUYS YOU ARE TOO HELPFUL but that is just what i wanted=]

Is grotsnik 160 points? In that case i can ditch a few grots to get him and remove one biker boss.

So my options for the second hq is either Grotsnik or a SAG with 15 grots. What would you choose? I am thinking Grotsnik just so i can see my FNP boyz decimate everything (although the grotsnik model is pretty dreadful)

wait for grotsnik don't you have to always run? So shoota boyz wouldn't really be viable

The army list with Grotsnik is this

Biker warboss and his things-150

Grotsnik-160

30 slugga boyz with nob stuff-220

2x28 slugga boyz with nob stuff-416

stormboyz and nob stuff-280

Snikrot and boyz with stuff-215

16 grots with herder-58

total-1499

normal shoota boyz =p

Although i am still quite hesitant as fnp on 30 boyz is extremely appealing the fact that he could be baited is a huge problem. Is he really worth it or should i just stick with the SAG? Anyone else have any gaming experiences?

Culler what do opponents do when they find out Grotsnik has to run towards the closest enemy unit?

For effectiveness I would say grotsnik over the SAG. As far as opponents trying to bait him, it's very difficult to do, especially if you've got lootas to take out any fast movers that are trying to draw him off. At lower points it is possible but difficult, and at high points it is practically impossible because they have so much stuff on the board. Deep strikers coming down behind your mob can buy your opponent some time because you're forced to go backwards to kill them but you can usually get a charge off turn 2 or 3, which is when they'd be coming down anyway. So the mob being forced to go backwards to kill off a sacrificial deepstriker (which is still killing something) is a factor, but lateral movement can be prevented by using the mobs to either side cleverly (if you have grotsnik's mob in the middle and then a mob on each side.) If you space just the line of boyz that is next to grotsnik's mob with less than an inch between them, grotsnik's mob can't move through because you have to be able to physically fit the base between your allied models. And thus straight forward remains the fastest route to get to the enemy who is to the side. It bunches up grotsnik's mob a bit but at least they're on course.

As far as your list with grotsnik goes, I'd recommend keeping the 30-man slugga mob but go ahead and keep the other 2 boyz mobs as shootas. They're great for shooting up screening units and opening a path for grotsnik to charge.

I've run a BikerBoss since Armegeddon and he's never failed to make a big difference in the game, I run him with 12 BikerBoyz and usually TurboBoost first turn.

Another option for the SAG is to place him with Artillery. In 5th Edition an Independent Character can fire at a seperate target than the Big Gunz. You can add him to a unit of lobbas who are 100% behind cover and he can be out in the open blasting away. The Gunz and Crew take the hits. Also always place a large piece of terrain in the middle back of each side so no matter which side you or you're opponent chooses, the SAG has a clear view of the board.

PipeAlley wrote: In 5th Edition an Independent Character can fire at a seperate target than the Big Gunz. You can add him to a unit of lobbas who are 100% behind cover and he can be out in the open blasting away.

Page 49, 3rd paragraph says ICs must shoot at the same unit that the unit they're attached to is shooting at.

Culler wrote:

PipeAlley wrote: In 5th Edition an Independent Character can fire at a seperate target than the Big Gunz. You can add him to a unit of lobbas who are 100% behind cover and he can be out in the open blasting away.

Page 49, 3rd paragraph says ICs must shoot at the same unit that the unit they're attached to is shooting at.

Look at the rules for Artillery in that book. I'm at work and don't have the page number.

Thanks!!

Page 55, under the heading 'shooting'

The gist is that one crewman fires each piece of artillery, and any other crew/attached characters are free to fire at other targets.