Assault Marines: Are they worth the points?

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**Lord Rogukiel**

Quite simply, I have a chaplain with jump pack, and am wondering whether getting a large sqaud of assault marines is worth it or not.

**GeneralRetreat**

I would say yes. They aren't the resilient powerhouse of Assault Terminators, but they are fast and numerous. With an attached Chaplain, they get pretty scary against the right targets.

**Kveldulv**

If you already have a chaplain with jump pack, there's no other good way to use him! Vanguards are worse for the points, and jumping the chap around on his own is as feeble as all the "yeah only my warboss has a bike because it looks cool" lists I see out there.

**Lord Rogukiel**

All right. Thanks. Is it worth getting 10 marines though. Also, should I get plasma pistols or not? I already know I either want a power weapon or fist because it's very useful in an assault sqaud, but I don't think plasma pistols are worth the extra pointsin an assault sqaud

**Witzkatz**

Since Assault Marines can't fleet, they will most probably have a shooting phase before whichever assault they mow into. A plasma pistol could be great for softening up those Chaos Terminators or Battlesuits and maybe kill one off before your guys rush in. Furthermore, you can take the lucky shot against enemy armor if it stays around your Marines - S7 can easily penetrate rear armor if you get the chance. I think a plasma pistol could be a useful addition.

**Rinkydink**

The only way, I feel, is to run them 10 strong with a powerfist, two flamers and the chaplain.

Add plasma pistols to taste, but weigh up that one shooting phase against the cost and the 'Gets hot!' rule too...

**Reecius**

They are for sure worth it, I have 2 squads of 10 and use them frequently.

I don't care for plasma pistols as they are expensive and you usually on fire them once. Flamers are better but again, you don't shoot them often. The best set up, IMO, is 10 men, and a fist on sarge.

If you really want to spice things up, Take Shrike and now you have fleeting assault marines which are crazy fast. Put Shrike and the Chappy in a squad of 10, and you and have an infiltrating, fleeting, hard hitting assault unit that will get a first turn charge, or can outflank. That is the business, right there.

**Fateweaver**

One of my regular opponents runs a 10man assault squad led by jump chaplain with Sarge with lightning claws and 2 flamers.

A very nasty squad. 9 PW attacks, rerolling hits, 4 of them reroll wounds + 2 flamers pre-assault + 27 attacks always at I due to Frags.

That squad scares the crap out of Berserkers.

**GeneralRetreat**

Reecius wrote:They are for sure worth it, I have 2 squads of 10 and use them frequently.

I don't care for plasma pistols as they are expensive and you usually on fire them once. Flamers are better but again, you don't shoot them often. The best set up, IMO, is 10 men, and a fist on sarge.

If you really want to spice things up, Take Shrike and now you have fleeting assault marines which are crazy fast. Put Shrike and the Chappy in a squad of 10, and you and have an infiltrating, fleeting, hard hitting assault unit that will get a first turn charge, or can outflank. That is the business, right there.

That's a great tidbit, right there. Plasma pistols can be fun (with the Sarge, you can put out 3 Strength 7 AP 2 shots before a charge. On a Carnifex, that makes a big difference.) but every time you loose a model to Get's Hot, it's a 23 point loss (well, more like 38 since you bought the pistol on him). Flamers are great for Assault Marines, but have two downsides - you loose the "extra CC weapon" attack by trading off his pistol (flamers are assault, not pistol), and, you stand the risk of eliminating enough models with shooting that you deny yourself the charge (a canny opponent will remove the front-rank models first, thereby taking you out of 6" charge range). However, if you're going to shoot, or you're up against Kroot or Eldar Guardians frequently, get the flamers.

As far as the Sarge goes, Powerfist is the standby equipment, but my personal preference is to spend the extra 5 points to get him a Thunderhammer. If you hit something with it (say, a Carnifex or an Avatar of Khaine) who lives through the Str 8 hit, it's reduced to Initiative 1 the next round. That way, your entire squad, and the Hammer, is guaranteed to strike again before Big Ugly wipes the floor with you next round.

Just remember that despite being fast, these guys are just as killable as a regular Marine, and being untransported, they can suffer to things like Artillery Bombardments and Lash of Submission. Keep them out of line of sight if at all possible, and never throw them out in the open for a turn to set up for a charge. I run mine behind two Rhinos or Razorbacks when in the open to complely block LOS, and to jump over the transport when contact is made.

**Lord Rogukiel**

Well TH are nice and everything but Dark Angels don't have the option.

Anyway, comparing flamers to pistol, the flamers do have a points advantage. Two flamers are cheaper than 1 plasma pistol and are most likely to take down more troops. Like GeneralRetreat said though, flamers loose the two handed weapon rule. THen again, in a 10 man squad, maybe I could loose two attacks for the flamers...

**Dracos**

I run them sometimes, and find they shine in lower point battles. I run lightning claws on my sgt, but I have been considering trying out a p.fist on him instead - its probably the better buy.

I normally find shooting with them prior to assault can be a liability as it may deny you the charge if you kill enough, as others have pointed out. So I skip the plasma pistols and flamers and just keep them cheap.

**Lord Rogukiel**

lol, DA sarges can't have Lightning Claws either.

**Ozymandias**

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Well TH are nice and everything but Dark Angels don't have the option.

Anyway, comparing flamers to pistol, the flamers do have a points advantage. Two flamers are cheaper than 1 plasma pistol and are most likely to take down more troops. Like GeneralRetreat said though, flamers loose the two handed weapon rule. THen again, in a 10 man squad, maybe I could loose two attacks for the flamers...

DA don't get flamers in their Assault Squads IIRC. But DA get a better Chaplain so the squad will have more cc punch.

**labmouse42**

<tongue in cheek>
Assault marines are great. They are the cheapest marines you can possibly buy!
Look at the entry. 100 points gets you 5 marines. That's 20 points each. If you swap out for a rhino transport, you get 35 points of rhino in there bringing your cost for 5 marines down to 65 points.

That is a cost of 13 points per marine, including the sergeant!
</tongue in cheek>

**Gornall**

labmouse42 wrote:<tongue in cheek>
Assault marines are great. They are the cheapest marines you can possibly buy!
Look at the entry. 100 points gets you 5 marines. That's 20 points each. If you swap out for a rhino transport, you get 35 points of rhino in there bringing your cost for 5 marines down to 65 points.

That is a cost of 13 points per marine, including the sergeant!
</tongue in cheek>

I actually do that in low-point games.

I find them to be very meta specific, as things like Lash and pieplates ruin their day fast.

**Lord Rogukiel**

DA assault marines: 125 points for 5 men. The veteran sarge has a LD of 9 and an extra attack. DA are expensive.

**Ringarin**

I field a squad of Dark Angels assault marines pretty much every game. Plasma pistols aren't worth it. 45 points for 3 shots in one game just isn't worth it.

Melta bombs and power weapon. That's all the gear you need to take. Always try to take squads of 10. Squads of 5 are ok, but don't survive as long or hit as hard.

The biggest thing is you can usually only afford one squad of them due to high points. Which brings me to the part of that you need to know how to use them effectively. That means hiding them behind terrain, screening them with vehicles or bikes or simply running a tactical squad ahead of them.

The key to using them effectively is to know and understand that it's better to waste a turn getting into position than it is to charge ahead and lose half of your squad to get an attack the turn earlier.

**Duce**

Don't use assault marines vs enemy cc units... In my opinion you should use them vs squishy units with the chaplains rerolls to wipe them out, examples being devs or guard squads or fire warriors. proper CC units like termies or nids will usually strike before them (Eldar aspect warriors) and do more damage to your guys.

Also personally I use 2 flamers and a sgt with powerfist or power sword. snap off the chaplains power attacks, the sgt's and all the marines plus pistol shots on the charge you can usually wipe the lesser units out.

**Holy~Heretic**

What about this set up for a low level points game (1k)

5 Assault marines w/Fist/Flamer in Rhino

This way you can do some drive by flaming and still have the added protection of a transport.
To assault tho you have to spend one turn out in the open giving your opponent a chance to run away/shoot the squad.

I was thinking of using it mainly because they came with my battleforce and my HQ Cassius needs a cheapy retinue.

It seems like a solid choice tho since the only person I've been playing so far usually fields alot of Kroot.

What do you guys think? stick them in a rhino or keep them as Jump infantry?

**Ringarin**

I'd keep them as Jump. The added mobility is good. Usually you put them in a rhino for the surprise factor, but added protection can be good too. Don't forget that if you wait until the turn after you move the rhino that you can still assault. That's the way around it. They have a chance to move away though.

**Reecius**

@OP
Haha, you didn't say that you played DA! That was a pretty important point to make!

DA just sort of suck all around, sorry to say. Use the normal codex and play them as counts as.

Ozzy is the only player I have ever seen win with non Deathwing/Ravenwing dark angels on a regular basis.

**Kingsley**

Dark Angels need to use their unique strengths if they want to be effective, which means that most Space Marine tactics don't really work that well for them.

**Schnitzel**

Reecius wrote:@OP
Haha, you didn't say that you played DA! That was a pretty important point to make!

DA just sort of suck all around, sorry to say. Use the normal codex and play them as counts as.

Ozzy is the only player I have ever seen win with non Deathwing/Ravenwing dark angels on a regular basis.

@Reecius, I run Greenwing fairly successfully. I'm no pro, but I don't use Deathwing or Ravenwing as a crutch, just as some added spice.

In my opinion/through my experiences, Dark Angel Assault Squads @ 5 guys w/3 Plasma Pistols and a Powerfist leads to super fun killy time. Granted, it's a suicide squad that shouldn't go against CC oriented units, but whatever the plasma doesn't cut up, the powerfist will. Run them vs. a naked Tactical Squad and see what happens.

Radda.

**Reecius**

Now that set up may work in certain meta situations, a bit pricey for a suicide squad, IMO, but I could see it working as a guided missile. It would just suck vs. things with higher In or lots of bodies. That is a unit that really only works against other Elite armies like MEQ's.

I don't think that DW/RW are a crutch at all, in fact with a codex as weak as the DA's (IMO) you should use every resource at your disposal.

Good on you for winning with them though, DA was my first army and it sucks to see them always be the red headed step child of the Marine variants.

**Ringarin**

People look at Dark Angels and see the higher cost on tactical squads and bikers and such and say they don't like them. They miss out on the flanking ability of the ravenwing bikers. The Interrogator Chaplain. Taking Terminators as troops. Belial.

Dark Angels are good. Don't take the plasma pistols or anything except for melta bombs and power weapon or a power fist. Then adding an Interrogator Chaplain to them. He's the biggest strength of the Dark Angels and you should use him every chance you get.

**Nurglitch**

Schnitzel is right: Shoot the assault units and assault the shooting units. The Dark Angels have a useful tool in the Assault Squad as it gives them the ability to mop up units that they don't want to get into shooting matches with.

I'd disagree that the Dark Angels suck, although I will agree that they don't make it easy for players. You should take full advantage of their ability to field Fearless units, and that means an Interrogator Chaplain. Not only does the Interrogator Chaplain give Fearless to the unit he accompanies, but he gives the Fearless Command Squad the option of a banner (a Sacred Standard) to confer Fearless to units within 12". Additionally Ezekiel confers Fearless to units within 12" and has a Ld10 Psychic Hood with unlimited range.

More importantly they can take 4th edition Smoke Launchers on their vehicles, meaning a full turn of nigh invulnerability.

**Reecius**

Ezekiel is pure, unadulterated garbage, and should never, ever be taken. He blows.

The chappys are great, I will agree with that completely.

Like I said, I have seen lots of people do well with Deathwing/Ravenwing, but the actual Dark Angels, you know, the guys in green armor? They are without questions, weaker than their marine equivalents.

Again, the only player I have ever seen win with non Ravenwing/Deathwing Dark Angels is Ozzymandias.

**Nurglitch**

Oh, well then, with that deep and insightful analysis, I guess no one is allowed to take Ezekiel ever again...

**Schnitzel**

Through my personal experiences, Zeke is an incredible tool on the battlefield. Pair him with Azrael in the same squad (Vets are a great choice) and you can hook them up with Power Weapons, Fearless, 2 attacks base on the vets, and a 4++ save. Intense *radda* right there.

Zeke makes it into almost every list I make. LD10 Hellfire, yes please.

On topic:
Dark Angels are difficult to use. As are Assault Squads (in general). While 200+ points for 5 guys with 3 plasma pistols and a power fist is a bit high, that's about the same cost as an upgraded (properly) Tactical Squad. They are two different animals at the zoo, but an Interrogator Chaplain is far more effective with the 5 Assault Marines than the 10 Tactical Marines.

Off topic (again):
@Reecius, I totally agree that my Dark Angels are weaker and more expensive than my Vanilla brothers. I truthfully can't wait to get an update. God, if the Space Wolves Codex is anything of things to come, my Angels will have a bright future ahead of them

On topic (again):
What this is going to boil down to OP, is this: how big of a game are you playing? Is your opponent playing a swarm army? If you answered "big" and "yes", then take the big squad of Assault Marines and the Jump Chappy as your HQ choice.

Sorry if this thread was derailed into an "I <3 DA" and "I </3 DA".

Radda.

**1-UP**

My buddy runs a pretty large squad of them in his BT army. I always have to keep track of what that squad is doing because they'll bring the pain. Not sure how many points he's spending, but I definitely respect the unit.