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I would like to know what you would do if a player asked what your Trukk, Landraider, Chimera or Rhino is carrting? I have just played a guy who insisted that I had to tell him exactly what was in my transports. I responded that I wouldn't because I don't want him prioritizing my vehicles and that he would never know what was in them in real life.(I know it's a game) Is there a rule that states I have to tell him or am I right by not telling. In all honesty I run 3 Trukks and 2 Battlewagons, there are only so many things that can go int them. I didn't ask what was in his Rhinos, I assumed marines!!!!

i show them what's in my Chimeras when asked. i also put a model from the squad on the back of the Chimera as well. it helps me keep track of who's going where and removes any doubt as to which squad is where.

Always.

Page 92: "A Note on Secrecy"

In short, yes, you need to tell him what's in your vehicles, unless the two of you agree otherwise before the game begins.

And, to answer your other question, there is, on page 92 of the rulebook, a section titled 'a note on secrecy'.

Now, the section does not have hard and fast rules, merely suggestions. It is, however, the only time it is mentioned in the book.

That said: Always.

Ninja'd!

Also, on page 66 it lets you know that you need a note or a mark for what unit is in which vehicle, and suggests you place a model from that squad on top. (which is what I do with my trukks - stick a model from the squad in it, there's a big flat space for it)

If you never told him, what's stopping you from conveniently putting shoota boys in the trukk he blew up when initially you put a warboss there. And trukk's are opened top btw.

You should state before the game starts what is in each transport. I think that's somewhere in the rulebook.

In game I would also tell my opponent what I have if they asked. Makes for a far more tactical game instead of sneaking up with that uber unit that your opponent had no idea existed.

enmitee wrote:And trukk's are opened top btw.

Was that in response to something? It's not really relevant to the thread.

I think it's a reply to 'in a real battle you couldn't see what was in my pickup truck'

I would definitely tell my opponent what is in my vehicles. As it does say on 92, it is recommended that you disclose your roster and what is in your transport. I would have to say if an opponent refused to tell me what was in his vehicles, I would immediately forfiet the game (if in a tournament I would call over a ref) and if in a tournament, I would definitely not give the player any sportsmanship points.

s2ua7 wrote:I would definitely tell my opponent what is in my vehicles. As it does say on 92, it is recommended that you disclose your roster and what is in your transport. I would have to say if an opponent refused to tell me what was in his vehicles, I would immediately forfiet the game (if in a tournament I would call over a ref) and if in a tournament, I would definitely not give the player any sportsmanship points.

agreed. regardless of what the rules say (and they do recommend telling your opponent), i'd never play against someone again who refused to tell me. i used to play against a guy who refused in 3rd edition to record which character his greater demon was supposed to possess. back then, if it possessed a model after it died, it took instability tests on 3d6 every turn since it was using a dead body IIRC and somehow his last character was ALWAYS the one magically who he was to possess if you managed to kill his others. there is too much potential for cheating if you don't tell your opponent.

I tell her when I deploy.

"A NOTE ON SECRECY:
To keep things fair, you should always allow your
opponent to read your force roster after a game. In the
same spirit, always make clear to your opponent which
squads are embarked in which transport vehicle."

Doesn't read as a 'recommendation' or a 'suggestion' to me. It says that you should always do so.

Orkestra wrote:Always.

I agree 100% seems a little unsporting not to..

insaniak wrote:

enmitee wrote:And trukk's are opened top btw.

Was that in response to something? It's not really relevant to the thread.

I believe it was in response to

beard102479 wrote:I don't want him prioritizing my vehicles and that he would never know what was in them in real life.(I know it's a game)

I think he was saying that even in fluff land/real life I can still see into the back of your trukk.

Even in real life it's not a stretch of the imagination to think that one army would know where the important parts of the enemy army is, assuming they didn't have terrible intelligence.

I am going to assume this was a poor attempt at a troll.

If it wasn't, my apologies and check out page 92 "A note on secrecy".

Personally, I'd say it's good practice to make it very clear what's in your transports.

My marine transports are all marked with squad type and number. With my orks there'll be a couple of squad members in the back (nob+warboss, PK nob + shoota boy, etc).

This way your opponent doesn't have to keep asking.

Personally, I painted a piece of armor on each boy the same color as the side of the trukk. Apparently, my warboss likes to keep things simple: "White boyz in da white trukk, blakk boyz in da black trukk, the rest of you red boyz get in da red wagon." (Side note, as of yet, I have not had any racial discrimination suits filed by any ork lawyerz to date). So, if you want to know what is in what trukk, look at the color then look at the boyz.

As far as in "real life," when I used to be in the army, we could identify who was approaching simply by the number of antennas on the HMMWV. 2 antennas meant company commander, 3 meant battalion XO, and 4 meant battalion commander. So, even though vehicles were identical, soldiers find ways to ID priority targets.

Myself and my gaming friends strictly play the secrecy. We do not disclose what is in the vehicles until they disembark, either voluntary or forced. This we find, plays a far more tactical and interesting game. Nor do we disclose any reserves we may have lurking off the board. In real life, you would not know what is in your enemies APC's without prior intelligence or whether or not he has the ability to call in some reserves. I think that in one of the game expansions (like planetfall) there should be a strategic assest to take in order to find this information out.

This method prevents your Warboss and Nob squad being deliberately targeted because your opponent knows which Trukk its in. However, there are caviats.............

We write down what squad is in what vehicle before the game starts and what is in reserve. E.g., That Rhino with the 3 bullet holes in the front armour (to tell it from the other Rhinos) is carrying the Tac. Squad with the Flamer and H Bolter...etc etc etc. When the squad disembarks, this is shown to the opponent to prove there is no cheating. If there is, game is forfiet.

Its a more interesting game when you don't know. I've 6 Trukks speeding towards my line, 1 has the Nob Squad of death in, the others are just Boyz. I've only 3 shots at taking them out. Is his Nobz on the left flank for my Devastators, the right for my Assault Marines, or is he coming down the middle?????????

You can see how this makes the game more interesting, your forced into thinking and making a choice, rather than knowing your target priority.

Each to their own I guess. This is just the way I and my friends prefere. But then we have a lot of house rules.

I've actually started numbering all of my transports and squads, so both players can tell at a glance which squad is where. We always play full disclosure anyway, so it just saves having to repeat myself...

I always declare.
I also, in my gaming bag, have a pad of mini post-it notes to write down which squad is in which vehicle, I stick these to the base at the start of the game where it cannot be seen. this prevents arguments.
I prefer my opponent to do the same.
I find it's a good compromise if my opponent is unwilling to declare.
It prevents shell game shenanigans (which I have come across all too many times)

The default isy ou declare what is in vehicles - secret games only exist by mutual consent.

I hate this rule. It make no sense to me whatsoever to advertise to the enemy general where your most important squads are, RAW be damned! I play similarly to secretsquig in that we like to have a bit of the tactics left in the game.

If an opponent asked me what was in my rhinos I would grudging tell him- very grudgingly if he wanted weapon loudouts and character info as well.

Soup and a roll wrote:very grudgingly if he wanted weapon loudouts and character info as well.

Errm...

What?

You do realise your opponent is entitled to look at your army list? Otherwise, what's stopping you magically having a relic blade when you need it even though you didn't pay for it?

Soup and a roll wrote:I hate this rule. It make no sense to me whatsoever to advertise to the enemy general where your most important squads are, RAW be damned! I play similarly to secretsquig in that we like to have a bit of the tactics left in the game.

If an opponent asked me what was in my rhinos I would grudging tell him- very grudgingly if he wanted weapon loudouts and character info as well.

Maybe we should play chess where your side of the board uses generic placeholders for your queen, knight, rook and bishop and only you know which is which, and I don't know until they make their move? That really sounds tactical for me, especially when only one side of the board is getting the advantage.

So players with transports gain a massive advantage that isn't balanced by points and isn't supported by the rules while foot-based, bike/Jump, Walker and gunlines get none.

Very grudgingly...? That is even worse! Either your Model is fully WYSIWYG and he can visually tell the weapon loadouts or it is a PROXY and by the very definition of proxies you have to tell him the weapon options you are using so he can know them in place of WYSIWYG! Now you are simply placing Thimble on the table and saying "This is my warboss, but I don't want to tell you what he is equipped with, it enhances the game."

Soup and a roll wrote:

If an opponent asked me what was in my rhinos I would grudging tell him- very grudgingly if he wanted weapon loudouts and character info as well.

I wonder how that would look like.

Gwar! wrote:What?

You do realise your opponent is entitled to look at your army list? Otherwise, what's stopping you magically having a relic blade when you need it even though you didn't pay for it?

I do realise and the fact that I'm not a WAACnker stops me cheating. (@nkelsch as well) With regards to characters and loadout I was still talking about while they were embarked. I'd have no problem showing an opponent my list when it became applicable (i.e when my guy uses it) or at the end of the game. I would expect people to refuse to play me if I downright refused.

@nkelsch

I take your point, but, in my opinion, the rule is there to prevent cheating between players who don't trust each other. I also hope you'll agree that 40k is not as exquisitely balanced as chess, though your game variant sounds intriguing. I suppose the cost isn't built into transports otherwise there would be not such rule. I see the reason for the rule, but I reserve my right to hate it for being deleterious to my enjoyment of the game.

There is no way, in my mind, that your forces could know what was in the rhino (excepting army intelligence, scouts etc) let alone whether my commander has frag grenades or not until he gets out and you see the model. Changing this can only detract from the 'realism' of the game. If you don't think that 'realism' in the game adds to the fun chess is a good alternative. The unknown forces a general to think on his feet- hidden objectives, blips in spacehulk, relatively-old-school treasure map lictors etc.

@enmitee I'm thinking somewhere between Grumpy the dwarf and Mr Grumpy the Mr Man. Kinda short and blue.

It's lots of fun to play secret games between friends. That being said it's NOT lots of fun to play secret games between strangers at tournaments. So full disclosure please. I always print out multiple copies of my army list (with EVERYTHING written fully out) and just give them to my opponents.

Most tournaments *require* full disclosure as part oft he "setup" for each game - so this is never an issue at that type of event.

in addition for those going "it isnt realistic to know what is in the enemies transports" - erm, yes, yes it is. That is oine thing SigInt teams specialise in....these days.