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So I have a few little things that I have questions on, and hope to continue the thread. Feel free to submit your own questions and I'll keep editing the master list:

1. What is a toughness test?

2. So there is a brood has lost combat, has retreated, and has escaped successfully. In the beginning of its turn it is not in synapse range. Does it takes a leadership test? If it passes, does it revert to instinctive behaviour? Do the continue to retreat until they are within synapse range?

3. So there are 2 carnifexes in a brood. One is almost completely (much more than 50%) in cover and the other is not. Being that they're MC's, would the brood get a cover save even though they're no longer 'individuals'?

I figure we can start using this until the official FAQ comes out, because I have questions that I would like to have answers to immediately.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:1. What is a toughness test?

Page 8 of the rulebook. "Characteristic Tests"

3. So there are 2 carnifexes in a brood. One is almost completely (much more than 50%) in cover and the other is not. Being that they're MC's, would the brood get a cover save even though they're no longer 'individuals'?

A unit is in cover if at least half of its members are in cover. An MC is in cover if it is at least 50% obscured. So a unit of MC's is in cover if at least half of the unit is at least 50% obscured.

In your example, that would mean that yes, the brood is in cover.

Those two are straight from the normal rules. I wouldn't venture to answer the synapse question as I don't have the Nid codex yet.

I had no idea the toughness test was in the main rulebook. Thank you!

And the example I used is the one I actually used during a game, but say this was different. One is out of cover completely and the second was less than half covered. Or both are less than 50%, they would NOT receive a cover save, correct? Even though half of the unit would be technically 'in cover', basically half or more of half the entire unit must be covered, right?

Instinctive Behavior specifies that it only applies the broods that are not Falling Back or Gone To Ground.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:I had no idea the toughness test was in the main rulebook. Thank you!

And the example I used is the one I actually used during a game, but say this was different. One is out of cover completely and the second was less than half covered. Or both are less than 50%, they would NOT receive a cover save, correct? Even though half of the unit would be technically 'in cover', basically half or more of half the entire unit must be covered, right?

Half or better of the models in the unit must be "in cover" to give the unit a save. So no, if neither of the two monsters are at least 50% obscured, nobody gets a save.

Aduro wrote:Instinctive Behavior specifies that it only applies the broods that are not Falling Back or Gone To Ground.

See the problem? If you retreat from combat and are not in synapse, what then? You're no longer subject to instinctive behaviour? Do you take a leadership test? And if you fail, then what? Fall back towards the nearest table edge? Towards the nearest synapse creature? It's not what it used to be, so I see a gap where the rules used to be very clear...

Seems very clear to me. `Nids have no special rules for Falling Back, so they can try to rally, and if they fail, they head for their table edge. Instinctive Behavior has no effect on them while they're Falling Back.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:

Aduro wrote:Instinctive Behavior specifies that it only applies the broods that are not Falling Back or Gone To Ground.

See the problem? If you retreat from combat and are not in synapse, what then? You're no longer subject to instinctive behaviour? Do you take a leadership test? And if you fail, then what? Fall back towards the nearest table edge? Towards the nearest synapse creature? It's not what it used to be, so I see a gap where the rules used to be very clear...

If you retreat from combat you are now falling back, and thus do not take the IB test, you would take a single test to regroup and if you pass it you would regroup like any other unit, otherwhise you continue to fall back.

The rules are clear, albeit very different to what they were in the 4th edition codex.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:And the example I used is the one I actually used during a game, but say this was different. One is out of cover completely and the second was less than half covered. Or both are less than 50%, they would NOT receive a cover save, correct?

That's correct.

Even though half of the unit would be technically 'in cover', basically half or more of half the entire unit must be covered, right?

In these examples half of the unit is not 'technically in cover' as MC's are only in cover if they are 50% obscured.

Basically, it works exactly the same for units of MC's as it does for other units, with the sole exception of exactly when the individual models are considered to be in cover.

- Regular models are considered in cover if any part of the model is obscured.
- MC's are considered to be in cover if they are at least 50% obscured.
- In either case, the unit is considered to be in cover if at least half of the models in it are in cover.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:

Aduro wrote:Instinctive Behavior specifies that it only applies the broods that are not Falling Back or Gone To Ground.

See the problem? If you retreat from combat and are not in synapse, what then? You're no longer subject to instinctive behaviour? Do you take a leadership test? And if you fail, then what? Fall back towards the nearest table edge? Towards the nearest synapse creature? It's not what it used to be, so I see a gap where the rules used to be very clear...

If you are retreating from combat, then you are falling back. If you're falling back, you do not take Instinctive Behaviour tests, but you'll need to keep falling back until you regroup.

Regarding the direction in which you fall back, I don't see how it could be clearer. The old Codex specified that you fall back towards the nearest Synapse creature if there was one, or the table edge if there wasn't. The lack of such a rule in the new codex doesn't make it a 'gap in the rules' at all - you simply do exactly what the base rules tell you to do. If the Tyranid codex doesn't tell you anything to the contrary (and on my rudimentary glance, it doesn't), just fall back towards the nearest point of the player's long table edge.

While we have a "compilation" of questions here, I have two related to how much of the dedicated transport rules is used for Mycetic Spores. Particularly:

1) Can a Tyranid Prime or Parasite of Mortrex choose to join the unit for the trip down, like in other dedicated transports?

2) Can the unit with the Spore choose not to deploy via that method and just let the Spore come down empty?

sirisaacnuton wrote:1) Can a Tyranid Prime or Parasite of Mortrex choose to join the unit for the trip down, like in other dedicated transports?

2) Can the unit with the Spore choose not to deploy via that method and just let the Spore come down empty?

No and No.

Spods are Not Dedicated transport Vehicles, they do NOT follow the rules for Dedicated transport Vehicles.

I pulled these from the other threads. They are FAQ worthy IMO.

3. Can Hive Tyrant be picked out of CC when with Tyrant Guard?

4. Can multiple "close combat weapon biomorphs" have their benefits gained from at the same time?

5. Tyranid Prime joins a unit of termigaunts. They're within 6" of the Tervigon. Does TP get the bonuses of catalyst because he's part of the unit of gaunts?

6. Explain Mawloc's terror from the deep in terms of a hypothetical situation where it destroys units. Can immobilized vehicles be moved out of the way or are they lost?

Clarification of the Hive Tyrant rule for the ouflank ability - besides the question if the +1 bonus to reserves stacks, if you take 2 tyrants with the ability, does it allow 2 troop units to outflank? Don't have the codex in front of me, but if you read the description, it sounds like the ability doesn't stack/allow 2 units to benefit from it with 2 tyrants. Not planning on running 2 tyrants myself, but I could see some folks using it in combination with flying tyrants (deepstriking them), genestealer outflanking and some warriors or something outflanking (pretty nasty).

3. No, as the tyrant IS NOT AN IC, and is NEVER an IC. He joins "as if" an IC, but that is only joining the unit.

Anything else requires wilfully misreading the words "independent character" and ignoring the initial requirement.

4. Yes, as they are never required to use CCW.

5. Yes, as the entire unit gains something. It is not a special rule of the uinit, but somethign granted TO the unit.

6

Gwar! wrote:

sirisaacnuton wrote:1) Can a Tyranid Prime or Parasite of Mortrex choose to join the unit for the trip down, like in other dedicated transports?

2) Can the unit with the Spore choose not to deploy via that method and just let the Spore come down empty?

No and No.

Spods are Not Dedicated transport Vehicles, they do NOT follow the rules for Dedicated transport Vehicles.

Wrong and 'not sure'. Spore Pods are a Dedicated Transport. Tyranid Prime is an Independent Character (can't remember if the Parasite is one as well). Tyranid Prime may join a unit and come along in a Dedicated Transport. Saying it can't because it's not a vehicle is a red herring, smoke and mirrors, diversion, deflection, god I love a good thesaurus.

-Yad

This is exactly the kind of discussion I wanted to have. Keep it up everyone!

I myself am still wondering about the spore pods because absolutely NOWHERE are they defined as 'dedicated transports'. They are purchased as an 'upgrade' to broods that can take them and the only mention of transport is in the special rule 'transport spore'. They're basically MC's dropping out of the sky that have passengers. They're non-scoring and separate from the unit they carry, so would they count for purposes of kill points? They're not dedicated transports (at least according to RAW), but rather an upgrade. So is the squad of termagaunts and the spore they rode in on counted as 1 kill point?

Also, in case anyone runs into this, you'll be taking fearless saves if you fail combat... As it can't run or consolidate or go to ground (or move at all) you'll just be taking more saves if you do fail combat thanks to them being 'fearless'.

However, Transports specify that Independent Characters can join the unit inside the tank, where as the Transport Spore rules don't.

Grunt_For_Christ wrote:This is exactly the kind of discussion I wanted to have. Keep it up everyone!

I myself am still wondering about the spore pods because absolutely NOWHERE are they defined as 'dedicated transports'. They are purchased as an 'upgrade' to broods that can take them and the only mention of transport is in the special rule 'transport spore'. They're basically MC's dropping out of the sky that have passengers. They're non-scoring and separate from the unit they carry, so would they count for purposes of kill points? They're not dedicated transports (at least according to RAW), but rather an upgrade. So is the squad of termagaunts and the spore they rode in on counted as 1 kill point?

Also, in case anyone runs into this, you'll be taking fearless saves if you fail combat... As it can't run or consolidate or go to ground (or move at all) you'll just be taking more saves if you do fail combat thanks to them being 'fearless'.

It does define them as dedicated transports...

The Spores ARE listed as Dedicated Transports, it's right before the Army List on page 85.

Yes, but they are not transport VEHICLES.

The rules for dedicated transports don't require them to be vehicles - it simply states they may be deployed empty, or with the unit plus any attached ICs.

Spores are Dedicated Transports, and Independent Characters may start the game attached to a unit inside of a Dedicated Transport.

HOWEVER, the question is if the capacity of the Spore allows Independent Characters. Normal Transports specifically tell you that they can carry one Unit plus any attached Independent Character. The Transport Spore rules have no such addition, and only say it may carry one Unit.

I am of the opinion that the currently rules do not allow you to attach an Alpha Warrior or Parasite to a unit that's deploying via Spore, but that the GW FAQ will probably errata it and allow you to do so. For now though, no.

I tend to agree with you on that one

Aduro wrote:Spores are Dedicated Transports, and Independent Characters may start the game attached to a unit inside of a Dedicated Transport.

HOWEVER, the question is if the capacity of the Spore allows Independent Characters. Normal Transports specifically tell you that they can carry one Unit plus any attached Independent Character. The Transport Spore rules have no such addition, and only say it may carry one Unit.

I am of the opinion that the currently rules do not allow you to attach an Alpha Warrior or Parasite to a unit that's deploying via Spore, but that the GW FAQ will probably errata it and allow you to do so. For now though, no.

Except the rules for Dedicated Transports on page 67 states that Attached ICs MAY start inside the dedicated transport.

And where are the Dedicated transport rules? The vehicle rules. Spods are not Vehicles, thus they cannot be following those rules.

Which does not override the fact that the Spode can't carry Independent Characters.

Aduro wrote:Which does not override the fact that the Spode can't carry Independent Characters.

Except the dedicated transport rules state they CAN carry attached ICs. You lack a rule stating they cannot, page 67 gives you a rule stating they can.

Gwar - unfortunately irrelevant. The boxout is entirely self contained and applies to ALL Dedicated Transports, which the Spore is. As such you follow the rules on page 67, whcih state you may start them empty.

NOTHING *requires* it to be a vehicle.

Aduro wrote:Which does not override the fact that the Spode can't carry Independent Characters.

Except that an Independent Character is part of the unit. Why would you possibly think it isn't part of the unit?

here the problem with IC, the spores can only carry a unit of 20 or one monster creature. so you can not add a swarmlord to a group and expect to drop them in a spore. My question can you buy a spore and add HQ like the Swarmlord in a spore?