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When do players deploy troops that inside a rhino/razerback. Do most people use foot troops w/o transports. I try to deploy my foot troop Heavy weapons in cover to shoot until they get killed off. Currently it has been when the razerback is killed, then the troops deploy.
Should I get into bolter range then set up firing lines? Most of the opponents are aggressive. I don't want my troops to be killed off by a vindicator.
No way can a rhino/razerback make it to the opponent's backfield/His objective marker.
Should I keep the rhino/troops in reserve until the Heavy weapons are destroyed?
The first few turns are focused on Killing Vindicators and preditors (anti- armor & anti infantry). I used a couple of razerbacks with TL LC sucessful. But that no longer works. With the thin armor, it is easy to take out a Razerback.
I do not want to start using Drop Pods. I have too many vehicles/tanks that are not being used.

as a general rule in 40k you shouldn't be afraid to lose models. Sometimes despite all good intentions your unit is going to get nuked by a vindicator or something else.

However, I often times have rhinos/razrobacks survive the entire game it mostly depends on a few things
1) target saturation: How many other vehicles are you fielding? If you are only using 1 or 2 rhinos with no other armor then yes they will get blown up very early since there is nothing else really for your opponents heavy weapons to fire at. If you have a couple of dread/pred/landspeeder/vindicator/land raider in addition to your transports then your opponent has to chose what to fire at. On the other hand you could just take more rhinos
2) cover: remember that in 5th ed true line of sight grants your rhinos when used in conjuction lots of ways to get a cover save. If you are moving 2 rhinos up, instead of putting them side by side and having them both blow smoke (4+ cover save) instead use one to screen the other and only have the lead pop smoke. Since the first rhino is block los to the 2nd many times the 2nd will get a cover save allowing you to save the 2nd smoke launcher for another turn. I know people who dispise rhinos simple because the transport when used in mass constantly provides cover for its friends!
3) they are just transports: You are paying 35 points for a rhino and 40 for a razorback, which in essense is a form of mobile cover for your unit. No big deal if it dies. If those transports are absorbing hundreds of points of enemy fire a turn then they are doing thier job.

As for how you should use deploy your troops in them completely depends on the unit in question. If your squad is kitted out for anti tank with 2 melta guns then why leave the transport at all? 2 models can shoot from inside with no problem. If its an assault unit then you should probably disembark when you get into assault range. Remember if a closed top tranport didn't move then a unit can assault out of it. Move up 12" pop smoke see if it surives then hope out and charge the next turn. If you want to want to swamp the enemy with bolter and flamer fire then by all means jump out at 12" and rapid fire. The key herei s never to deploy the unit to early. That was a mistake I used to constantly make with my sisters and marine armies when the change over to 5th first occured. The best time to disembark is when it is most advantageous to your unit.

Hope this helps I know I'm not tackling all your questions but its time to leave work

*edit some spelling

One trick I saw in an Imperial Armour book is to take some guidance from where the hatches are on the Rhino itself. If you're going to disembark, but can't assault yet and/or just want to shoot that turn, disembark your Marines in a U shape around the sides and the back, concentrating more models on the back if possible.

If you place them right, the Rhino can cover half or more of your Marines from both sides, and the front, giving them a cover save from your opponent's round of shooting no matter where his guns are (besides right behind you). Then, when it's time to advance/charge next turn, just have the Marines go around both sides of the Rhino, which is short enough that it's easy to maintain unit coherency with a 6" move. This is a little safer than turning the Rhino sideways to cover the whole squad as it comes out of one side door, since you can get around the transport faster if it happens to get wrecked.

I went aginst Space Orks lastnight @ FLGS. The ork was happy when I unloaded the troops at a objective. He could use his artillery. I did stay in the rhino' too long. I had a NOB unit surround the rhino and pound on it with P.Claws. Blocking the side doors(I had to read about the rear exit) When it exploded, All troops inside are dead. I lost 2 units of 10 men. Now I know.

The Old and New Rhino has a hatch/ large doors on Top of the Rhino. Is that Detail bits or a real exit?

I have one rule for when to get out of the transport: when it's destroyed.

Check out the rules on emergency disembarkation, resinmann. Your troops don't automatically die, especially when the transport explodes.

You can't kill a unit by blocking the hatches of their transport, the transport has to be entirely surrounded.

It can certainly be worth getting out before your model is destroyed, especially if you have something that's about to destroy it but that your tac squad can kill. In a game last night, my opponent's DeffKopta outflanked, lobbed rockets at my razorback's rear armour, then assaulted it with a buzzsaw. Fortunately he only got a Weapon Destroyed result (and elected to kill the lascannon rather than the twin-linked plasma gun) and a Stunned result on the 1st turn of attacks. Getting the squad out let me rapid-fire the Kopta to death without too much difficulty. Got back in again next turn & continued on my merry way...

"You can't kill a unit by blocking the hatches of their transport, the transport has to be entirely surrounded."
It was a Ork unit Nobs w/ a Painboy.{ they would not die !} who surrounded the whole rhino/RB. They had a lot of ork PF.
I will check out the rules on emergency disembarkation . There is the top Large hatch on the top of all rhinos (new & old) Maybe that is what the doors are for.

What about not being able to pass by a enemy model within 1? Rules Lawyers could argue that a few models can block all exits.

Anyone else have "2 cents " they would like to discuss the rules on emergency disembarkation ? With the issues above: blocked doors and the 1" from enemy model rules?

If you can't disembark from the hatches due to enemy models or impassible terrain, the emergency disembark rule allows you to disembark from any point on the hull, as long as you can place models without being within 1" of the bad guys.

Technically Wrecked vehicle become dangerous terrain, but terrain non the less. therefore you can actually get out on top(you will be within 2" of a hatch) and if it explodes the models being transported are put where the transport used to be.

Grey Templar wrote:Technically Wrecked vehicle become dangerous terrain, but terrain non the less. therefore you can actually get out on top(you will be within 2" of a hatch) and if it explodes the models being transported are put where the transport used to be.

If you read the rules carefully you will see that the models must disembark before the vehicle becomes a wreck, so you may not disembark on top.

I don't have my BRB right now. Page# and quote please

Grey Templar wrote:I don't have my BRB right now. Page# and quote please

That's hilarious... your original assertion did not have backing from the rulebook, but when you're contradicted you require it? Not sure of the exact page number, but it's in the "affects of vehicle damage on passengers" section.

Look it up.

The prosicution must provide evidence to prove a case.

if i had had my BRB i would have stated the exact rules and we wouldn't be having this conversation

It's on page 67 in the "Disembarking" section, buried in the middle of a paragraph in the left hand column IIRC (I don't have my rulebook with me either, but I looked it up last night).

Even though the vehicle damage table says models that can't disembark are destroyed, the "emergency disembarkation" rule in the disembarkation section of the rules says they can disembark from any point of the hull of a destroyed transport as long as they can stay 1" from enemy models (and are pinned for a turn).

This isn't an american court, though kudos to Flavius Infernus for pointing out where to find the rules about emergency disembarkation might be found.

Something I'd also like to see checked are the rules for Space Wolves splitting fire. I have this odd conviction that the Long Fang Leader has to be able to see the target units in order to split fire, and it occurs to me that if that is true, then a squad of Long Fangs in a Rhino may not be able to split fire since it only has two fire points, and if both were used for Heavy Weapons, then the Leader wouldn't be to to see out to split fire, and if he could, then only one Heavy Weapon could fire.

So, someone please check this?

Regardless, getting out of a Rhino when it's stunned or shaken is good because these results will prevent passengers from firing out of them.

Grey Templar wrote:The prosicution must provide evidence to prove a case.

if i had had my BRB i would have stated the exact rules and we wouldn't be having this conversation

We would still be having this conversation because your original post was still wrong.

Page 67 "Effects of damage results on passengers"

"Destroyed-wrecked"

"The passengers must immediately disembark, and then take a pinning test. Any models that cannot disembark are destroyed. After this, the vehicle becomes a wreck."

yes, It is important to say where the rule info came from. I have a list of Exceptions to rules, I have Book,page,paragraph to show people.

We are dealing with 2 issues here. A Vehicle exploding and being surrounded by enemy models.
A recked rhino would be upside down or having cotton smoke from it. It is only removed when It explodes. BRB pg 67 has some of the rules. "Emergency disembarkation". When the models explodes, make ST 4 attacks saves. Then the vehicle is removed and a hazardous terrain marker is put in it's place. {The template could be dangerous?} The surviving models are placed where the vehicle was. 6 enemy models can block all 4 sides and still be in coherency. The models can't be 1" from a enemy model. They are trapped and destroyed.

Usually a wreck (where the vehicle remains in the table and is destroyed) is dangerous terrain, but the crater left by an exploded vehicle is not dangerous, but is difficult.

"Usually a wreck (where the vehicle remains in the table and is destroyed) is dangerous terrain"

What is left behind, a rhino upside down? Should we use 1/2 size remains.

A Tank with a Siege Shield can 4-wheel-drive over the hull?

After a vehicle becomes a wreck, usually people that I play against just leave the vehicle on the table and mark it in some way to show it is wrecked.

A wreck is just like other terrain, ao vehicles may drive over it (tank or not, siege shield or not) with a dangerous terrain check (I believe the shield would prevent the check, however).