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Whats the best way to equipt scouts... shotguns, bolters, or boltpistols/combatblades...


No snipers or hvy weapons are going to be used.

There would be about twenty scouts all together.

Depends what you want to use them for. Obviously Bolter scouts will have the best shooting, but don;t expect to launch assaults. For a dedicated assault unit, Combat blades are the way to go. I personally like mixing Shotguns and Combat Blade/Bolt Pistol scouts. That combination gives them a good balance of shooting firepower and attacks.

Thats what i was figuring shot guns and combat blades with a a powerfist sgt. for first turn assaults as a distraction, and then a squad of snipers/ combat blades.

I'm not sure what you're saying there, but I think you're saying you want one squad with with Shotguns and Combat Blades and one squad with sniper rifles and combat blades.

You don't want to mix Sniper Rifles and combat blades. Sniper rifles are heavy weapons, so you can't shoot them if you want to assault that turn. It's far more effective to have a full 4 sniper rifles and a heavy weapon in a ruin or somewhere where they'll never have to engage in close combat. Give them camo cloaks for even more survivability. The irony of scouts is that they have what should be the most accurate weapons, with the worst ballistic skill in the army. So, on average, you won't hit your enemy as much as you'd think, which is why you want as many as you can in the squad. Remember that you shouldn't make killing the primary focus of using them. Their greatest advantage is that with only one wound inflicted you force a pinning test, which takes an enemy unit out of action for an entire turn.

Sniper scouts just don't cut it anymore. 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound... nah

You have to figure out what your plan on doing with your scouts. I love my Land Speeder Storms. I run one or two with Scouts armed with CCW/Bolt Pistols and a Meltabomb. But I strictly use them for anti-armor. But my Scouts get cut to pieces against anything MEQ. Other people run pretty much the same squad with a Powerfist. I don't like to do this cause it's a high cost weapon with a relatively weak unit.

Using scouts to sit on objective is great until someone else decides to take it from you then they get owned. They serve a better purpose as a road bump to slow down your opponent. While your Tacticals squad sit on objective inside Rhino/Razorback.

I just got Sgt. Telion (won him in a tournament) and plan on trying him out but still ain't locked down the best way to use him. Anyone have any field experience with him?

I use scouts with sniper rifles. But if I expected them to actually kill anything with sniper rifles, I'd be disappointed.

-If somebody leaves a big vehicle with weak rear armor near a short table edge, I outflank and kill the vehicle with krak grenades. The sniper scouts cost the same as HtH scouts, and are just as good with krak grenades.

-They can also outflank and handle a weak HtH unit, like an IG command squad or fire warrior unit (even with just sniper rifles, they're still I4, str4, T4 and 2 attacks on the charge).

-If I can set them up in such a way that they will pull or distract part of the enemy army, or create a distraction that lures my opponent into deploying one or more units out of position, then they've done their job already by turn one and become expendable.

-If they can hang around somewhere in cover within running distance of an objective that I'm not otherwise near, going to ground whenever somebody tries to shoot them, then that's their job.

-If they can stand in cover way far away from everything else and plink at some small, elite unit--like oblits or long fangs--where even losing 1 or 2 models to a lucky rending hit hurts--then my opponent will either have to eat those casualties or peel something away from the main fight to go after them.

The nice thing about using scouts this way is that, unlike the LS storm alpha strike--which your opponent can always counter if he has half a brain--that even if your opponent knows perfectly well what you're doing, there's nothing he can do about it. Not bad for a 75-90 point troop unit.

General_Chaos wrote:Sniper scouts just don't cut it anymore. 4+ to hit, 4+ to wound... nah

I just got Sgt. Telion (won him in a tournament) and plan on trying him out but still ain't locked down the best way to use him. Anyone have any field experience with him?

It's all about how you use the scouts. Like I said earlier, and what Flavius reiterated is that you shouldn't expect to kill alot with sniper scouts. They're used to pin and annoy the enemy. Remember, only wound has to take to make your opponent take that pinning test. I also have a fair amount of synergy. My Scout Snipers have camo cloaks, and I use the Bolster Defenses provided by my Thunderfire to give them a 2+ cover save, which makes the enemy spend a fair amount of time and energy trying to get rid of what is a fairly inexpensive unit.

As for Telion, putting him with something other then sniper scouts is largely pointless. His weapon is pretty much a sniper rifle. Its got rending and pinning, better AP. its slightly less likely to wound against tougher things, but its still got rending, so... I field him all the time. The squad comp is Telion, 1 guy with either a rocket launcher or heavy bolter, (depending what army I'm going against) and 3 sniper rifles. I usually use Telions VoE rule on the heavy weapon when its a vital shot, and have done some serious damage to vehicles this way. When I don;t do that, I can either have him assassinate any member of a squad I please, or, at the very least, have two more chances to force that pinning test, which is what Scout Snipers are all about.

Flavius Infernus wrote:The nice thing about using scouts this way is that, unlike the LS storm alpha strike--which your opponent can always counter if he has half a brain--that even if your opponent knows perfectly well what you're doing, there's nothing he can do about it. Not bad for a 75-90 point troop unit.

How exactly do you counter a Fast skimmer outflanking unit with a 20" charge range??

General_Chaos wrote:

Flavius Infernus wrote:The nice thing about using scouts this way is that, unlike the LS storm alpha strike--which your opponent can always counter if he has half a brain--that even if your opponent knows perfectly well what you're doing, there's nothing he can do about it. Not bad for a 75-90 point troop unit.

How exactly do you counter a Fast skimmer outflanking unit with a 20" charge range??

1. If you have bubblewrap units, you surround your vulnerable vehicles with them. The scout move is not allowed to put the storm within 12" of anything, so you can effectively get the scouts as far away from your vulnerable, stationary vehicles as you want them by surrounding them with a couple of cheap, expendable infantry units. This is what kroot are for in a Tau list, for example.

2. Any other army can just not deploy. If your opponent draws first turn and deploys a LS storm, just keep everything in reserve. Then when you drive on something shooty in turn 2, light up the storm and the scouts who fall out and score your two easy KPs (or remove a scoring unit).

Seriously, any army can counter it any time without having to have anything special.

Flavius Infernus wrote:1. If you have bubblewrap units, you surround your vulnerable vehicles with them. The scout move is not allowed to put the storm within 12" of anything, so you can effectively get the scouts as far away from your vulnerable, stationary vehicles as you want them by surrounding them with a couple of cheap, expendable infantry units. This is what kroot are for in a Tau list, for example.

Thanks Captain Obvious, I understand this, but that wasn't my question it was "How exactly do you counter a Fast skimmer outflanking unit with a 20" charge range??

If you don't get first turn you reserve the Storm and if you opponent puts everything into reserve to avoid the Storm that is freaking awesome. Enemy units coming in piecemeal is always awesome in my book

Flavius Infernus wrote:
2. Any other army can just not deploy. If your opponent draws first turn and deploys a LS storm, just keep everything in reserve. Then when you drive on something shooty in turn 2, light up the storm and the scouts who fall out and score your two easy KPs (or remove a scoring unit).

Sweet, I can disrupt my opponents entire deployment and 1st turn with a 160 point scout unit. Bit of an overreaction.

1. Is a pretty good idea, assuming you have expendable units for the job, such as Infantry squads or Kroot or Boys. This is why every LSS should have a Heavy Flamer, so even if they do set up a wall you can flame it. The bubblewrap unit will either break and run (generally off the board) or will be weakened to the point where the scouts can handle them in CC.

I LOVE the Storm.

General_Chaos wrote: "How exactly do you counter a Fast skimmer outflanking unit with a 20" charge range??

If you don't get first turn you reserve the Storm and if you opponent puts everything into reserve to avoid the Storm that is freaking awesome. Enemy units coming in piecemeal is always awesome in my book

Oh, outflanking. Actually the reach is closer to 21"

Like any other outflanking anti-tank unit, you ignore it. Same reason why outflanking chosen in a rhino have problems in chaos armies. It comes in, gets one shot to kill one thing, then you turn around and blow it to kingdom come. Lose 1KP and gain 2. At least a rhino is AR11 and closed-top (and chosen are 3+ save).

If you guys haven't yet realized that starting everything in reserve is often an advantage for a mech army that's going second--or if you aren't yet playing mech--then I can see why you'd still think the LS storm gimmick unit is worth the cost of 2 predators.

Flavius Infernus wrote:.If you guys haven't yet realized that starting everything in reserve is often an advantage for a mech army that's going second--or if you aren't yet playing mech--then I can see why you'd still think the LS storm gimmick unit is worth the cost of 2 predators.

I have seen how putting everything in reserve work well or fail miserably when you got your army coming in piecemeal and units held up for 4 turns until they hit the board. I don't like the randomness of my entire army waiting.

Your comparing Apples to Oranges. Scouts and Land Speeders are Troop and Fast Attack choices and Predators are Heavy Choices. The discussion was about scouts and there effectiveness.

I prefer a more aggressive role while you prefer a more defense role. In my opinion you are getting more out of Scouts using them Aggressively. Instead of sitting down in cover, causing a minor irritation, and praying any other unit doesn't want to occupy the same space.

If I want an aggressive unit in a fast slot, I'd rather have a pair of MM/HF speeders for less than the cost of the storm.

Flavius Infernus wrote:If I want an aggressive unit in a fast slot, I'd rather have a pair of MM/HF speeders for less than the cost of the storm.

Please note the OP Subject... but to stop your endless one-up-manship, Yes Flavius your right kk thanx for coming

My Land Speeder Storm has won me a lot of games since I picked it up. Whether it's outflanking to claim or contest an objective in later turns or killing/ripping the guns off of 3 vindicators first on the first turn there's really no better buy for the points than:

4 Scouts; 2 CCW&BP, 2 Shotguns; Sgt with Combi Melta and Meltabombs.

The nice thing about this unit is if you set up for the Alpha Strike and it gets countered by deployment it's fast and versatile enough to do something completely different.

I like it so much that to be honest I was never going to suggest it on a message board, but since someone went first I figured I'd jump on the bandwagon.

Just try it in a few games and see how it works for you. I would bet that you end up digging it in a big, big way.

So a scout unit can jump out and assault from a vehicle that moved 18" (the 20" assault range that's being referenced)? I know it's open topped but if you move at cruising speed or faster, I thought you were out of luck for disembarking. And it's not like the LandRaider being an assault vehicle.

This is not snark. Genuinely trying to clarify something I'm apparently getting wrong.

Units cannot disembark from a vehicle that has moved (or is GOING to move) flat-out (13"+). BRB, somewhere in the vehicle section.

Telion = awesomesauce for making sure a hellfire shell from a heavy bolter hits its mark, but i prefer taking powerfist sgt's out of tac squads w/ a rending wound, when i can. Other than that i think scouts are trash. Troop choices are the weakest in the SM codex, compared to other recent codices.

privateer4hire wrote:
So a scout unit can jump out and assault from a vehicle that moved 18" (the 20" assault range that's being referenced)? I know it's open topped but if you move at cruising speed or faster, I thought you were out of luck for disembarking. And it's not like the LandRaider being an assault vehicle.

12 inch move
2 inch deploy
6 inch assault
20 inches

Add in shrike for an extra d6 from fleet.
Cheers
~Volkan

Nail on the head, volkan.