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I am going to take a moment and show you what I do before big events like the Broadside Bash. I look around the boards and study the armies that others are planning on bringing, and I wonder what I would do against them. It keeps me in practice since I do not play that much (my last game was at the Wild West Shootout several months ago) and even though I may not face the armies that are posted on the boards, I will face armies that are very similar.

Last year it actually helped me because Hulksmash posted his list online and so when I played against him I knew exactly what to do. He ran a list of little bugs with a little synapse and I had a shooty SoB army, so I knew going into that game that all I needed to do was to destroy his synapse and I should be able to win it, and that is exactly what I did.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/231405.page

So here is my list for this year’s Broadside Bash (yes I am aware of the irony that I am letting people look at my list and prepare for it, but some players keep everything a secret and it does help them to win, but I am trying to be educational and help people out):

HQ
Avatar

Farseer, Singing Spear, Spirit Stones, Stone of Warding, Doom, Guide, Fortune

Elite
6 Harliquins w/2 Fusion Pistols, 6 kisses
Shadowseer W/Kiss
Troupe Leader w/Power Weapon

Troops
10 Guardians w/Bright Lance
10 Guardians w/Bright Lance
10 Guardians w/Bright Lance
Warlock w/Conceal, Singing Spear

3 Jetbikes w/Shuriken Cannon
Warlock w/Singing Spear, Destructor

Fast Attack
7 Warp Spiders
Warp Spider Exarch w/2 Death Spinners, Power Blades, Withdrawl

7 Warp Spiders
Warp Spider Exarch w/2 Death Spinners, Power Blades, Withdrawl

Heavy Support
Wraithlord w/Brightlance, Missile Launcher, 2 Flamers
Wraithlord w/Brightlance, Missile Launcher, 2 Flamers

3 War Walkers w/Scatter Lasers

So that is the list that I am comparing to everyone else’s list. So let’s take a look at a few of the armies that have been posted lately on Dakka:

Army #1 http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/276490.page
(This is Shep's list, and I do not know if he will play it at the Bash, but I am sure that I will be facing 'Nids and it will help me to think about what I will need to do against the new book)

swarmlord
2x tyrant guard lash whips

3x hive guard
3x hive guard
2x venomthropes

21x termagants
21x termagants
tervigon with catalyst toxin sacs adrenal glands and crushing claws
tervigon with catalyst toxin sacs adrenal glands and crushing claws

tyrannofex with rupture cannon
tyrannofex with rupture cannon

Against army #1
He has a lot of shooting but they are not a threat with the Hive Guard and the Tyrannofex. The Hive Guard has an effective range of 24” and the only thing that I have the really needs to worry about them is the War Walkers since their shooting is only AP4. So I need to place My War Walkers at the back of the board and it will give me a turn or 2 of shooting at them, but I expect my Walker Walkers to be the first to die. Tyannofex is a different story with their 48” range. They are a crap load of points, but they do shoot a mean strength 10 shot, but they hit once per turn on average, and with their AP4, they can’t hurt anything else in my army. Killing the Tyrannofexs is not an option with a T6, W6 and 2+ save means that I can’t afford to waste the firepower that it would take to kill them because there is so much in the army that is a bigger threat. The only choice I have to kill them is to hit them with the Harlies, Wraithlords, and the Avatar at the end of the game when they are moved forward to contest the objectives.

The first to die!
Without a doubt it is the Terigons.
There are 2 reasons for this, the first is that every turn they are going to crapping out a ton of termagants, and the second is that if you kill them, they will blow up all of the gants around them. Good times! I think I can kill one a turn with the Wraithlords, and War Walkers shooting. As he advances, I will have my Warp Spiders move up and try to stay at their maximum range for shooting (12”) and then warping back so I do not stay within charge range, and the same goes with my Jetbikes. I will hit and run a lot. 2-3 turns of this should whittle him down to more manageable numbers. Especially in the Broadside Bash missions that are so objective heavy I think I can wipe out all of his troops pretty fast, and then at the end of the game I can move up the Avatar, the Wraithlords, and Harliquins to finish off his MCs.

Note: Shep said that he will be more aggressive with his Tyrannofexs, and that could be a problem, but they move only 6” and if I move back, and hit his other units, I think I can reduce him to a reasonable army before he closes to the 12” danger zone for their shooting. I think that I can still shoot him up enough by that time that my counter assault elements can go after them.

Army #2 from the same Batrep
ghazghkull thraka
big mek with kustom force field and burna
3x meganobs kombi-skorcha, kombi-rokkit

15x lootas
5x lootas
5x lootas

19x boys nob with power klaw bosspole
30x boys nob with power klaw bosspole 3x big shootas
10x gretchin 1x runtherder

1x deffkopta twin-linked rokkits buzzsaw
1x deffkopta twin-linked rokkits buzzsaw

battlewagon kannon 3x rokkits red paint reinforced ram boarding plank
battlewagon kannon 3x rokkits red paint reinforced ram boarding plank

3x killa kans 3x rokkits
3x killa kans 3x rokkits

God I hate orks!
I might start my army in reserve, but I really hate to do that because my army has a lot of synergy when I have all of it on the board, and if I come on with a few units here, and a few units there, and the inability to use my Farseer powers, that is a recipe for disaster, but depending on the mission, who goes first, the terrain etc, I might have to do it.

This is the army you can look at and know that it is a bad matchup for me. His Lootas will pick me apart while his other stuff bears down on me. I will be hard pressed to win in a strait up fight. As far as targeting goes, the War Walkers will try to get an angle on the large Loota squad so that they other lootas can’t return fire. I doubt if I can take them out in one turn, but I will need to cripple them (Quick mathhammer! 24 shoots, 12 hit, 10 wound, 5 die after cover (7.5 with fortune}...not to good). I have to respect his speed and I will try to shoot my brightlances at the battle wagons and try to slow him down. I am at a disadvantage because he can assault out of the open top, he has a large threat radius. What I will need to do is stick and jab and try not to get pinned down. I might turbo boost my Jetbikes by his main army to try to get at the Lootas, and the grots. I will throw him a guardian squad or two try to get him to charge so I can then hit him the Warp Spiders.

Those rokkits are also going to be a major issue. Maybe I am more afraid of them
than I should be, because my Wraithlords may be able to stand up to them if I hide them behind the Avatar/cover. 3 rokkits shooting 1 will hit, .5 will wound, .25 wounds with a cover save, so 12 rokkits will do one wound…hmmm. See, that is why it is better to sometimes to think these things over beforehand. If it was not for those 15 lootas, I would like my chances in a strait up fight.


Army #3 http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/276247.page
Hulksmashes army...you think he would have learned...
(I picked one of the 3)
HQ
Parasite-160

Elite
3 Hive Guard-150
3 Hive Guard-150

Troop
Tervigon-195
Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sac, Catalyst

Tervigon-195
Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sac, Catalyst

20 Spine Gaunts-120
20 Hormagaunts-160
14 Devourer Gaunts-140

Fast Attack
10 Gargoyles-70
Toxin Sacs

Heavy Support
Mawloc-170
Mawloc-170

2 Carnifex-320
2 Twin Scything Talons

Against army #3
The strategies against them will be similar to the first list. I am going to hammer the Tervigons hard so they will blow up and take a bunch of termagants out with them. Their shooting is also rather short range, but they have added Devourer Gants that have to be respected. I imagine on the first turn one warp spider unit will go after the D. Gants, and the other Warp Spider unit will go after the Gargoyles because I do not like a very fast unit bothering me and my plans. The one thing that really concerns me are the Mawlocs. Not so much for their close combat ability, but for the Strength 6, AP 2 pie plate they lay down when they come on the board. Just like against a deep strike army I will have to keep my army spread out to minimize the damage of that pie plate, yet close enough so that I can hit them with my whole army including the guardians shuriken catapults, the harlies, and the Avatar, since I will only have one turn to take them down before they burrow and do it again. I hate that because it will keep me busy while a bunch of other stuff is running at me.



Note:I know that players will try to counter my moves, but I have back up plans, and other tricks up my sleeve.

For example: When I am facing a bad matchup, and know that I will have trouble winning, and I am playing a good general , and the dice are not going my way, I call an audible and then go with "Plan B". What I try to do is take out all of his troops, so I will at least get a draw, and then I will try to figure out some way to win.

I don't need to learn Blackmoor. I don't even know what list i'm going to take yet or how it works Though the one you picked is a variant that I'm leaning towards if I don't take my Counts as SW to help with the soft scores

Thank you for posting your thoughts!

I know this is not in the army list forum, but I still would like to know if you have considered taking Eldrad instead of a regular Farseer. (You could drop the warlock with conceal to pay for the upgrade.)
I don't need to tell you what the advantages of Eldrad are, but I'm thinking that having Runes of Witnessing and the option to be able to cast Mind War could be very usefull against Tyranids?

Very good tactical article Allan!

G

If that same tyranid list trades the capsule cannon for the big flammer, I'm not sure what you would do... especially if he uses the terigons ability to enable them to run and shoot 1 hellhound flamer, 1 normal flamer and one large blast cluster spine... thats a lot of dead guardians. If he shoves both of those behemoths down your pipe line your target priority may switch or I suppose you will try to counter them in combat and still shoot the tervigons, which is what I would do, got to take out the troops. The problem there is that that turn you take to kill the tyranofex in combat lets him push the rest of his army up and hit you in one wave.

I would trade up for eldrad... I think thats a must even though I don't like having to rely on a special character to win, every body is doing it these days though.

If I was shep I would place the tyranofex in front of the tervi's to get the 4 + cover than play very aggressive. I still think the hive guard are garbage, imagine if he traded those for as many poison hormagaunts as that would buy, that could be a real witch to deal with wounding your wraithlords on a 4 + ... don't forget the tervigons babies get that ability too. I don't know when GW is going to wake up and give the wraithlord an armor value or say he is immune to poison, and the avatar... just how is that evaporated poison effecting his moulton metal body? Anyway maybe in the next book.

. Just a thought as you may see this "Tryanofex Rush" tactic used by more creative players.

No offense IG88 but I don't really think you understand the situation.

A Nid army can do anti-infantry so well it's gross. Why would anyone pay 250pts for something that didn't fill a gap in the army? 265 if used aggressively can keep things stunned or shaken at range and then close and do nasty things up close. As for a full "Tyranofex Rush" I wouldn't bet on it. It's an auto-lose list against at least 1 army out there and and very nearly one against quite a few. Personally they don't even fit my playstyle so I'm not gonna be taking even one just yet.

Also without hiveguard how do you pop mech? Those poison Hormies can't hurt tanks which most people ride in. God knows I don't have a single imperial list without 6+ Tanks in it nowadays which is why you need the HG.

Blackmoor has posted how he hopes he can handle certain builds from good players he knows that will be showing up (excluding Shep since he's not gonna make it). Posting a bunch of changes to the 'Nid lists that a lot of players wouldn't consider running in a competitive event is kinda pointless.

IG88 wrote:If that same tyranid list trades the capsule cannon for the big flammer, I'm not sure what you would do... especially if he uses the terigons ability to enable them to run and shoot 1 hellhound flamer, 1 normal flamer and one large blast cluster spine... thats a lot of dead guardians. If he shoves both of those behemoths down your pipe line your target priority may switch or I suppose you will try to counter them in combat and still shoot the tervigons, which is what I would do, got to take out the troops. The problem there is that that turn you take to kill the tyranofex in combat lets him push the rest of his army up and hit you in one wave.

A well configured Tyannofex is going to be a big problem. The good thing is that he has a range of only 12" for the real nasty anti-infantry weapons. That will give me a few turns to work with. I might move way back in my deployment zone to buy some time and maybe have to lose a guardian squad or two later on. I thought I could take them out in assault, but if they are geared up for anti-infantry then my harlies will have a huge problem getting a charge on them because it will be really hard to get close to them to assault, but not too close to get destroyed but their shooting. The only way I see to take them out is in the answer below.

I would trade up for eldrad... I think thats a must even though I don't like having to rely on a special character to win, every body is doing it these days though.

I think I agree. I took Eldrad in my other lists, and I thought I could leave him at home. There were two reasons why I did not take Eldrad. The first is because this is a comped tournament with your opponent giving you a comp score, and I worried about what comp score he would get. The second reason why I did not take him is that I never really needed him before. Most of the time all he did was cast the odd guide or doom, and fortune the Avatar.

But with the rise of the Tyranid codex, maybe I will need to go to the well and take Eldrad. With a wall of big bugs headed at me I will need Doom and Guide so my strength 6 shooting will be able to do enough wounds so that it can get through the 3+ armor save. But the other reason why I need him is the ability to cast 2 Mind Wars. That is the only way I see to drop those Tyrannofexes with out having to sacrifice a lot of units.

If I was shep I would place the tyranofex in front of the tervi's to get the 4 + cover than play very aggressive. I still think the hive guard are garbage, imagine if he traded those for as many poison hormagaunts as that would buy, that could be a real witch to deal with wounding your wraithlords on a 4 + ... don't forget the tervigons babies get that ability too. I don't know when GW is going to wake up and give the wraithlord an armor value or say he is immune to poison, and the avatar... just how is that evaporated poison effecting his moulton metal body? Anyway maybe in the next book.

. Just a thought as you may see this "Tryanofex Rush" tactic used by more creative players.

Poison bugs will be an issue, so anything with poison will be deal with harshly.

As far as the hive guard goes, they are need to fight mech armies, and especially mech eldar, You need to ability to take out wave serpents by shooting or you are screwed.

As far as the Tervigons goes, you mentioned what I thought would be the result of this little tactica. Since the codex is so new, people have not played with these armies and they do not know how to play them, or play against them. By illustrating what I would do to them has me at a disadvantage. Forewarned is forearmed.

So the thought that Tervigons will not be targeted and armies do not have the firepower to take something with 6W and 3+ save out will be dispelled. Also see Shep's battle report. Now I expect Tervigons to be hiding a lot more behind there MC kin, and the difficulty of killing them will be increased.


The thing that will save me from the Tryannofex rush and Tyranids in general is time. The fact that the Tyranid codex came out, people will not have time to make any models for them. Farther down the line, yes, but right now, no. Hulksmash said that he may play another army, Shep's army is unpainted and unmodeled, so I don't think he will be showing up with his.

Infact, I thought I would play my Tyranids. My army will only need a little bit of conversion work, a few hive guard, and a converted Tervigon out of an old metal carifex, and I would would be good-to-go.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hulksmash wrote:
A Nid army can do anti-infantry so well it's gross. Why would anyone pay 250pts for something that didn't fill a gap in the army? 265 if used aggressively can keep things stunned or shaken at range and then close and do nasty things up close. As for a full "Tyranofex Rush" I wouldn't bet on it. It's an auto-lose list against at least 1 army out there and and very nearly one against quite a few. Personally they don't even fit my playstyle so I'm not gonna be taking even one just yet.

The more I think about Tyrannofexes the more I like them. The 2+ save is what really makes them survivable. They are harder to kill than thier Trygon/Mawloc brothers. I think we will see more in the future but unlike the Trygon/Mawloc they do not have a model yet so I don't think that they will be showing up.

Do to their durability I do like the tactic of putting them in the front and using them to screen the rest of the army like Tervigons. Put a venomthrope next to them and they will be hard to kill short of assault terminators.

Also without hiveguard how do you pop mech? Those poison Hormies can't hurt tanks which most people ride in. God knows I don't have a single imperial list without 6+ Tanks in it nowadays which is why you need the HG.

That is why you do need Hive Guard and good shooting in a nid army.

no offense taken hulk smash, I probably came off a bit cavalier in that last post and really didn't mean to, Yeah the more I think about it its more of just moving the tyranofex's forward in front of the tervigon than having to change the gun, though I still think the 3 template a turn thing would be fun. At 265 you really need to be getting everything out of that critter, his guns, his intimidation factor and his survivability against incoming fire. I'm sure people will use Hive guard with some success but they are pricey and I'm old school, if there is a tank that needs taking out you do it in combat, I still point a carnifex at the tank and cross my fingers and have pretty good success.


I always love reading your battle reports Blackmoor, as I play eldar too I can really appreciate what you do, one mistake with eldar and its usually over. The only other lists you see on here are seer councils and mechdar, pretty sad really, your army lists are a breath of fresh air and its nice seeing you take people out to the woodshed with what seems like an inferior army to those with limited tactics.