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I'm curious as to Dakka's opinion on this gun, and whether it's a good grab for your heavy weapon slots.

When it works, it works well... when it doesn't, it epic fails.

Basically, if you get first turn and/or are facing an opponent with little to no long-range shooting and who isn't in transports, it can dish out a lot of hurt. 4 S6 blasts will hurt even MEQs fast. However, if those stars don't align, it dies super fast without making a large impact.

It dies easily, so you should have equal or more dangerous threats that your opponent has to deal with first. Like a dread in his face

Hmm so I guess I might as well have Vindi's or something?

The vindicator is a very different unit. TFC can ignore cover or cause difficult terrain checks or cause up to 4 wounds on 1 MC. The Vindi is harder to kill, can't ignore cover but can instagib nob bikers or destroy heavy armor.

It really depends on your list.

Thunderfire is more versatile and can even be placed up on top of a building in your deployment zone (can't move up or down, but it can start there).
Whereas the Vindicator is just about the big s10 ap2 large blast template. Each will have a time when they're good and when they're bad. Generally though the Vindicator will most likely draw more attention at first, so if you're considering one or the other why not both?

Thunderfire can make them move as if they're in difficult terrain, slowing them down while the Vindicator hammers the unit away.



Now I want to go buy some Thunderfire Cannons

You can easily hide the T-Fire behind another vehicle, such as a land raider, if you don't go first. This will protect it from enemy fire and insure you get your shots with it on the bottom of turn 1.

It's a great gun.

Don't underestimate using them in drop pods. you might lose one round of shooting, but getting that cover save can be a life saver. Last week I fielded one in my first victory. It spent most of the game mowing down an IG blob squad, to good effect. You also have to consider the synergy factor. Remember that it comes with a Techmarine, which can Bolster Defenses. That means if you start it in a a ruin, you can have a 3+ cover save. However, since mine always comes out of a dro pod, I start my scouts (3 sniper rifles, a heavy weapon, and Telion) in a ruin, coupled with Camo Cloaks gives them a 2+ save. They didn't take any casualties until the last turn.

DarthDiggler wrote:You can easily hide the T-Fire behind another vehicle, such as a land raider, if you don't go first. This will protect it from enemy fire and insure you get your shots with it on the bottom of turn 1.

This is definately a viable option. Having a vehicle to LOS block for it and cut off potential firelanes can go a long way to increasing its survivability.

They are tons of fun with mystics too...

I think they are great, and try and take one as often as possible. Put it in ruins, top level specifically, and give it a 3+ cover save. Although there is significant debate over whether the TFC+Techmarine actually count as one unit. Whether or not it does will affect its use or lack of a cover save. I personally see it as a unit, and therefore if the Tech has a cover save so does the TFC.

Also wondering...how is the thunderfire cannon destroyed? They just give stats on the Techmarine accompanying it. Is it assumed that when the marine dies there's just no one left to man the gun?

Correct. That's how all artillery type units work.

Sgt.Sunshine wrote:Also wondering...how is the thunderfire cannon destroyed? They just give stats on the Techmarine accompanying it. Is it assumed that when the marine dies there's just no one left to man the gun?

Yeah, but you roll to see if you actually wound the TFC or the Techmarine. on a 1-4 it his the gun, anything else the Techmarine. If you hit the gun, you treat it as an armor 10 vehicle, and you destroy with any glancing or penetrating hits. But this doesn't kill the techie. Now if you kill the techie the whole unit dies.

Oh, well that's...interesting?

I guess I'll swap out one Vindi for one of these in my list :B

Played against a friend who fielded one of those thunderfire cannons... i had 2 fire warrior sqauds shredded over the next 2-3 turns. Following a quick deep strike with a few battlesuits (namely ALL OF THEM) and i only managed to kill the pesky tech-marine. That was ages ago before i even learned some tactics ;p

Thunderfire Cannons are Very good.

As a space wolf player I am saddened that I cannot take them,

they have a 1/6th chance of immobilizing land raiders, that is better than most other guns in the game. (4 shots, all blasts, only 1 needs to even touch it, then they are taking a dangerous terrain test next turn)

Put bikers into difficult terrain and they cant turbo-boost next turn.

they can stack wounds onto units like terminators and nob bikers to start removing models

they pummel hordes and make them disappear quick

3+ cover save, if the gun is destroyed you then have a techmarine with all his utility to repair any other nearby vehicles.


Dirty trick: if your FLGS has multi-level terrain pieces you can put the marine on the top level of the building, and the gun on the level just below him. If an enemy wishes to assualt they will need a full 6" run to get past the gun, then up a level to get to the techmarine.

Demogerg wrote:
Dirty trick: if your FLGS has multi-level terrain pieces you can put the marine on the top level of the building, and the gun on the level just below him. If an enemy wishes to assualt they will need a full 6" run to get past the gun, then up a level to get to the techmarine.

Sure, if you want to abuse the rules and open a huge can of worms for deployment rules. If you ever tried to do this to me, I would start deploying my Predators on the top floors of my ruins and starting my units out of coherency to avoid blast weapons.

Even without deployment madness, TFC can be great. As an ork player, I dread them a little (one guy I play against sometimes runs three), but they are usually a priority for a deffkopta or Snikrot, so hopefully I don't take too much damage from it.

I like how you get a full-blown techmarine at a discount; servo-harness and everything.

thebetter1 wrote:

Demogerg wrote:
Dirty trick: if your FLGS has multi-level terrain pieces you can put the marine on the top level of the building, and the gun on the level just below him. If an enemy wishes to assualt they will need a full 6" run to get past the gun, then up a level to get to the techmarine.

Sure, if you want to abuse the rules and open a huge can of worms for deployment rules. If you ever tried to do this to me, I would start deploying my Predators on the top floors of my ruins and starting my units out of coherency to avoid blast weapons.

I would love it if you deployed like that, that means
A: your predators aren't moving all game
B: your squads' first movement phase will be a compulsary move to get back into coherency, slowing your retreat away from my killy-elements.

I played against one once. I lobbed a couple of krak missiles at it, they all hit the gun, and one failed 3+ save later it was dead without ever having fired. The tech marine spent the rest of the game hanging out with the scouts at the back. I was underwhelmed.

Also if you put it in a drop pod, I think the real value would be in deploying the cannon (in fortified ruins) and leaving the pod empty as a "dud" to drop on turn one versus an opponent who doesn't deploy. That way you don't lose a turn of shooting for the cannon. Upgrade to the multiple-missile thingie onto your pod and drop it empty in your opponent's face for extra template goodness.

You kill his gun and the Techie becomes an IC, techmarine+servo harness=killiness; 2 powerfist equivalent attacks plus the option of firing a tl plasma pistol and flamer in the shooting round (losing the S8 attacks though).
A techmarine is 75 points with harness which means the gun is just 25 points. You can't go wrong.

If I lost the gun, I would move the techie up as fast as possible to join a tac or termie squad (he's got a 2+ save after all). Barring that, use him to repair tanks.

I love the TFC. It's one of my favorite units in the Codex. It absolutely owns Orks, which are really my Achilles Heel...

Outstanding unit, particularly in a fortified ruin if you're fortunate enough to have one in your deployment zone.

Also somebody just pointed out to me last night that the TFC gun is a vehicle. So it needs 50% TLOS cover or some kind of screening unit to get the cover save. Just putting the unit in area terrain isn't good enough.

Flavius Infernus wrote:Also somebody just pointed out to me last night that the TFC gun is a vehicle. So it needs 50% TLOS cover or some kind of screening unit to get the cover save. Just putting the unit in area terrain isn't good enough.

It's part of a unit. If 50% of a unit has cover (aka the Techmarine), then the entire unit is in cover.

Yeah, artillery units are a little tricky, but if 50% (the techmarine) is in area terrain or somesuch, you do get the save.

Okay, I'll buy that (I assumed they got it anyway until somebody told me different). Might be a question for YMDC.

It's been covered several times in YMDC. Consensus was that IF a vehicle model and an infantry model can both count as part of the same unit for cover determination, and 50% of that unit has cover as determined by its type, then the whole unit has cover.

That first qualifier was the point of contention, and there wasn't much in the way of a final answer reached.

Personally I read it as the techmarine does give the gun cover. It seems the most logical way to read the rules as written, and makes sense in game as well, since the gun is small and designed to be very mobile, not to mention only costs 25 points.

I have a thunderfire cannon that I have scratchbuilt myself. So I often bring it along just because I'm proud of the model :-) However, it will not be used against Tau IG or anyone else with huge amounts of long range weapons.

Favorite enemies: Orks. SoB. DE wych cult. Tyranids. Deploying smart, behind a vehicle or in good cover, is very important. Making difficult terrain can be great fun, and is a pretty unique ability that people rarely expect.

Demogerg wrote:Dirty trick: if your FLGS has multi-level terrain pieces you can put the marine on the top level of the building, and the gun on the level just below him. If an enemy wishes to assualt they will need a full 6" run to get past the gun, then up a level to get to the techmarine.

Units attempting to assault artillery units are allowed to charge the gun model. I don't see how deploying in this manner helps you.