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HQ
Captain, Storm shield, relic blade melta bombs , artie armour bike
2 melta guns/ chain swords, storm shields on bikes
flamer/ chainsword, storm shield on bike
2 power weapons,boltpistol, stormshields on bike
thunderhammer,boltpistol, stormshield on bike
Champion Lightenclaws, storm shield on bike
So my Hq squad is +3/+3 toughness five feel no pain squad while the Hq is +2/+3 toughness five
these guys will take alot of fire but with a turbo boost first turn they should be safe. while other units hit objectives.

I was thinking of throwing in a chaplian for fun but that means i would have to get rid of one of the scouts units.

10 scouts combat blades sgt power fist.
Support unit to the shotgun unit
10 scouts camo cloaks, shotguns one close combatblade, sgt power fist.
these guys shoot up a unit and then the combat blades unit assualts

10 scouts 4 sniper rifles heavy bolter/hellfire rounds, five bolter scouts camo cloaks
This squad gets combat squad out, snipers sit on objective, the other five support via landspeeder.

land speeder storm
transport for five scouts

3 landspeeder typhoons w/ mulitameltas anti Infantry. tank outflank

I'm sorry, but how many points is this army? And are you going with a chapter master or a captain? B/C you can't take a command squad with a master, only and honor guard squad.

sorry its a captian on a bike and its 1500 points

I'm more than a bit leery about having essentially only one squad of merit in your whole army. You're also going to need to be very judicious in your placement of your land speeder storm so that your puny scouts (and they are indeed puny at this points level) don't get DS'd into oblivion.

That biker squad is scary, and its mobility makes it rather difficult to ignore, but i don't think that they will be able to win the whole game for you.. which is what this list pretty much requires.

Talk about eggs and baskets...

The Scouts are a bit of a mess too. Shotgun scouts? Really? For what? If you are shooting the Bolter scouts are better if you are assaulting the Combat blade scouts are better.

Bolter scouts in a Landspeeder storm?!?!?!?! The whole point of the vehicle is to assault on turn 1 or assault from an out flank either way why on earth put bolter scouts (with camo cloaks) in it? Also it needs a heavy flamer.

Sniper scouts have no point if you're not taking Telion.

How many points are in the Capt and Command squad? I'm guessing about 600? It is not even a killer unit fo rthat points cost. It's hitting power is OK. it's staying power is great but is that really that useful in a unit that can't hold objectives and will only do limited damage to the enemy?

3+ Invulnerable save on a unit with a 3+ armour save and that will mostly also get a 3+ cover save, is pretty much how you define a waste of points. Ok it'll help in CC but compare and contrast your biker to a TH/SS Terminator and see how expensive your guy is for less staying power and less hitting power...

FlingitNow wrote:Talk about eggs and baskets...

The Scouts are a bit of a mess too. Shotgun scouts? Really? For what? If you are shooting the Bolter scouts are better if you are assaulting the Combat blade scouts are better.

Lets see bolter scouts cant charge if they fire ther bolter( rapid fire ) Shotguns two shots charge In con junctions with combat blades scouts firing there pistols... equals 30 shots, they charge in shotgun scouts get two attacks, blade scouts three, 50 attacks on the charge to a unit that going to be already hurting from the shooting phase.( that turn one or turn two)

FlingitNow wrote:
Bolter scouts in a Landspeeder storm?!?!?!?! The whole point of the vehicle is to assault on turn 1 or assault from an out flank either way why on earth put bolter scouts (with camo cloaks) in it? Also it needs a heavy flamer.

OPen top vehicle which means i can fire my bolters and the heavy bolter from the vehicle, yes they have camo cloaks but its a point waste due to them being combat squads out. or i can make it a two five man squad on the rooster
.
Why would i want to take a character to a toury, but i do see you point there.

FlingitNow wrote: Sniper scouts have no point if you're not taking Telion.

How many points are in the Capt and Command squad? I'm guessing about 600? It is not even a killer unit fo rthat points cost. It's hitting power is OK. it's staying power is great but is that really that useful in a unit that can't hold objectives and will only do limited damage to the enemy?

Its about 600 points the hitting power is no ok its pretty great, you have four strenght 6 hits on the charge, with 6 strenght 4 power weapons, four more by lightenclaws and then three thunder hammer hits, plus 9 regular hits, ( that 17 power weapon hits on the charge) Mostly it will kill off the unit. before they can even swing at them do to the captian and the company champoin.

FlingitNow wrote:
3+ Invulnerable save on a unit with a 3+ armour save and that will mostly also get a 3+ cover save, is pretty much how you define a waste of points. Ok it'll help in CC but compare and contrast your biker to a TH/SS Terminator and see how expensive your guy is for less staying power and less hitting power...

THUNDERHAMMER/STORMSHIELD termies cant shoot, and there walking , Bikes i move 12, shoot, assault, termies i move 6 then run, then sit there.
But hey i never played this game before so i have no idea what im talking about.
Cover saves are great but not effective in close combat, Hense the invulnerable saves...


Trust me i rolled played the list it does what its suppost to do, which is strikes hard on the first two rounds hitting , while your trying to figure out how to stop the bike squad from coming down ur throat, surprise you have to deal with three typhoon speeders now. That will hit your armour in the back or on the side.

Lets see bolter scouts cant charge if they fire ther bolter( rapid fire ) Shotguns two shots charge In con junctions with combat blades scouts firing there pistols... equals 30 shots, they charge in shotgun scouts get two attacks, blade scouts three, 50 attacks on the charge to a unit that going to be already hurting from the shooting phase.( that turn one or turn two)

You'd be better off with 2 combat blade scout units...

OPen top vehicle which means i can fire my bolters and the heavy bolter from the vehicle, yes they have camo cloaks but its a point waste due to them being combat squads out. or i can make it a two five man squad on the rooster

The fabled scout gun boat that makes on average (assuming in rapid fire range) 1.5 Heavy Bolter hits and 5 bolter hits enough to cause a whopping 3.25 wounds on a unit of Orks. Wow that is 140 points well spent... It also has a -2 modifier on enemy Ld when you assault from it making it great for assaulting scouts, gets them into range (a potential 45" charge range on turn 1) and if you give it a heavy flamer it can soften up the unuit first too! Charge it into a Unit of 20 boyz and you have a decent chance of wiping them out. 30 Guard or 10 Necrons or 10 sisters should also be likewise easily put to the sword.

You've also spent 15 points on those redundant camo cloaks, get 2 units of scouts for 5 points cheaper and you get a 2nd vet sergeant!

Why would i want to take a character to a toury, but i do see you point there.

Why wouldn't you take a Character to a Tourney? Sniper scouts don't kill anything in general Telion does and can take out PFs and spec weapons from squads which is very handy.

Its about 600 points the hitting power is no ok its pretty great, you have four strenght 6 hits on the charge, with 6 strenght 4 power weapons, four more by lightenclaws and then three thunder hammer hits, plus 9 regular hits, ( that 17 power weapon hits on the charge) Mostly it will kill off the unit. before they can even swing at them do to the captian and the company champoin.

17 Power weapon attacks on the charge? wow. 600 points of hammernators would only have 45 power weapon attacks on the charge. Heck chuck 8 of them in a crusader, save your self some points, get 24 power weapon attacks on the charge a huge amount more survivability and a LRC into the bargain! That would ahve far more killing power and staying power than your bike command squad.

Trust me i rolled played the list it does what its suppost to do, which is strikes hard on the first two rounds hitting , while your trying to figure out how to stop the bike squad from coming down ur throat, surprise you have to deal with three typhoon speeders now. That will hit your armour in the back or on the side.

Volume fire will take out 8 guys, you're actually easier to take out with volume fire than 8 Plague Marines...

One decent AT squad would take out the 3 speeders in a turn if not severely cripple them. Autocannon totting stuff would take them out easily. If your suggested tactic has worked it is because your opponents have made a massive error. Taking down 8 bikers is not too tough without having to resort to low AP weaponry.

A LRC TH/SS squad as detailed above would annihilate your bike squad. Likewise most things can take down landspeeders as you have no other AV models I can concentrate all my high powered weaponry on them as it is wasted on the Storm shield bikers. Then mop up the scouts with heavy flamers and assaults. You have no target saturation, no duel threat. You have 1 major threat that is really quite limited and easy to concentrate opn and your only other threat is again marginal and requires totally different weapons to destroy it. i'm not forced to split my fire at all, anti-infantry takes down that bike squad AT takes out the speeders in 1 turn. Then turn 2 joins in finishing off the bike squad and then onto the scouts...

So your going too waste all your units fireing into one Unit( sounds like a noob move too me).
Plus I doubt i will see redeemer with assault termies at the toury( why because im the one that usually runs that type of list)

The point is its my army im runing for a toury, and I have freaking 70 termies(thats not including the twenty grey knights termies) and 7 land raiders. If i want to build a Undefeatable army I can do it. Its for a toury , So if i build a list that is totally insane im going too loose points in Comp, and the players i play will think the army is cheese and write down a poor sportman ship score, so before i even start the toury, im down say 40 points for poor comp and then for the sportmanship..

PLus Not every one has all the toys i have, your you have. You have to go by there list on what people have.... Ive changed a list once , by listing too " all the expert players on here" and that list was tabled in two games before turn four.

Its your Opinion, and we can play what if all night long . point is its the army im going to play. So enjoy it or not thanks for ur Opinion .

StarGate wrote: So your going too waste all your units fireing into one Unit( sounds like a noob move too me).

Actually considering your army composition, it wouldn't be such a bad idea, spend 2-3turns shooting the hell out of your uber squad, then spend one turn killing all of your troop choices, a dedicated shooting army wouldn't have too much trouble with this, and a dedicated assault army could either bog you down or ignore you in many, if not most cases. *shrugs*

So your going too waste all your units fireing into one Unit( sounds like a noob move too me).

On a one unit army this is not a noob move.

Its your Opinion, and we can play what if all night long . point is its the army im going to play. So enjoy it or not thanks for ur Opinion .

Fair enough just trying to help. I use scouts a lot especially in Land Speeder Storms and shooty scouts are now useless in the new codex. Sniper are OK for MC hunting in large numbers (especially C'Tan as they only get a 4+ save ) and as a Telion delivery system. But now they are BS3 you can't rely on them realy doing much damage to anything. CC Scouts are actually very points efficient and in LSS they can be very effective.

Also what is the point in a Tourney if you're not taking your best army? If someone complains about cheese why are they in the Tourney? Yeah I know about army comp but you can take a competitive and optimised list wihtout straying from army comp, particularly with SMs!

I would have thought this army would score far lower on army comp than most.

While I dont think bike command squads are as useless as some people here seem to think, your bike squad is very much illegal.
A command squad consists of no more than 4 veterans and 1 apot. The apot cant be upgraded in any other way than given a bike, same thing goes for the Company Champion.

While I dont think bike command squads are as useless as some people here seem to think, your bike squad is very much illegal.

I wasn't saying it was useless just inefficient use of points. It is killy and certainly pretty survivable, but you can get more kill elsewhere for the same (if not fewer) points.

Though I do wish I'd checked my codex for the points as you say there is no way to add members to a command squad. It has me woundering how the OP managed to even work out the points cost for the unit?

Shrike78 wrote:

StarGate wrote: So your going too waste all your units fireing into one Unit( sounds like a noob move too me).

Actually considering your army composition, it wouldn't be such a bad idea, spend 2-3turns shooting the hell out of your uber squad, then spend one turn killing all of your troop choices, a dedicated shooting army wouldn't have too much trouble with this, and a dedicated assault army could either bog you down or ignore you in many, if not most cases. *shrugs*

I would most likely do this. You're not making it hard to prioritize targets.

StarGate wrote:Its your Opinion, and we can play what if all night long. point is its the army im going to play. So enjoy it or not thanks for ur Opinion .

I wasn't going to comment as FlingitNow covered it all pretty well, but this is just irksome. Why bother posting a list if you're not going to accept criticism?

Here my constructive criticism of your list. It lacks focus. You've got half of your army into a unit that wants to rush forward and assault, whilst the other half wants to sit back and shoot. Good competitive lists are made up of units which synergise with each other.

I would drop some of the equipment on your command squad. You don't need each member to have a SS, put them on 2-3 and don't give those any more upgrades. SS are only there to soak up wounds so the real hitters on the unit have a chance to swing. I'd also give one of those Vets a Thunderhammer/Power Fist.
If you want assault scouts, go for BP/CCW option inside the Storm, and give the sergeant a PF and/or Meltabombs. I agree that those sniper scouts really need Telion, and give the snipers camo cloaks instead of the shotgun scouts.
Those Typhoons are a bit strange. TML are fantastic, but are best when used from range, whereas Multi-Meltas need to be up and close. Synergy is the aim of the game here. I would either go for TML/HB or MM/HF for those speeders.

PS: Spell-check, use it.

StarGate wrote: HQ

Champion Lightenclaws, storm shield on bike

You can't put Lighten claws or even Lightning Claws on a Champ

Other than that this list is all about fail IMO

You are taking away one of the greatest advantages of the Space Marines.... BS4 if you want to suck at shooting go IG at least then you get killer tanks.

IF you already plan on combat squading the scouts why not just split the units of scouts and get two units, at least you get a Sargent with each unit that can shoot

Multi-meltas on Typhoons... seriously what's the plan getting up close or staying back and shooting? If you want a little of both save yourself 30 points and get a Heavy flamer instead of the Typhoon launchers