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I was all excited for GW 5th edtion codex for Tyranids. Well after reading the rules, and seeing how so many arguements are on the forums and people disagreeing I am actually turned off GW now. I can't believe after 25 years they are no better than 8 graders in making their rules. You would think after 25 years they would know what they are doing. I don't know about Fantasy, since I only did 40K and I am fimiliar a small bit of 40K. Since I am relearning the rules I can't believe lots of the rules are confusing unless you are a pro. Since I am not a pro, GW should be tailoring to me. Well I don't mean me personally but I ment me as in people who are just getting into 40K. I shouldn't have to read page 7 and then know I should go to page 98 and then page 54 so I know what or how the rules should work.

I even see veterans complain about how the rules should be. I don't know, right now I am turned off, and all my excitedness about the Tyranids and 40K in general almost seems to be gone. 2 weeks ago, I started making my mini's now I can't be bothered to touch them now.

So how do you guys and girls (are there any 40K girls here?) handle GW inept writing skills? Do you get turned off the game and go onto something else? Do you just laugh at how idiotic of a proffesional company they are suppose to be and just keep playing and ignore it? I just spent to much money on 40 to just throw it all away, but right now I just can't get into it. I finished modelling my gaunts, and need to buy new ones, but when I went into a GW store, and looked at the prices, (espically the Ravenors, not paying $55 Canadian for them) I said feth this, and left the store empty handed.

I guess I am just trying to find motivation to continue GW right now. I am actually looking at to start something else, but don't want invest again since I already invested in GW. I just want to see how you guys and galls handle these things.

I just wait for the FAQ to come out to build an army based on a new codex.

Honestly, I started playing Hordes, Flames of War, Malifaux and Infinity... Problem solved.

I still have my Fantasy and 40k stuff, and will play occasionally for fun. But that's it.

I read these forums and then feel blessed that GW doesn't write like its fans.

I drink.

A Lot.

Then I try and fix GWs writing while drinking a lot.

Did you spell 'writing' in the title wrong on purpose?

Davor wrote:So how do you guys and girls (are there any 40K girls here?) handle GW inept writing skills?

We write our own, and have a lawyer go over it.

We don't think GW's rules are that bad. In fact, we think they're getting better and better. We house rule the few things that seem egregious.

I think he's talking less about what the rules are, and more about the way the rules are structured (the language used, and so on).

GW rules are written in a very haphazard style with little or no thought given to 'defined terms' and the repeated and consistent use of language. But that's just the byproduct of a company who sees rules as nothing more than a means to an end (selling models), and treats the rules like everyone is a casual gamer rather than a scum-of-the-earth tournament player.

Nurglitch wrote:I read these forums and then feel blessed that GW doesn't write like its fans.

T-T im sorry

Yeah all this writting does look like they hate the online fanbase.

Wikipedia wrote:In common law, a writ is a formal written order issued by a body with administrative or judicial jurisdiction; in modern usage, this body is generally a court. Warrants, prerogative writs and subpoenas are types of writs; there are many others.

mostly good answers, including the 'i get drunk ' ones. seriously if your disenchanted by just the spelling mistakes, and lack of rules cohesion. youd best switch systems now and save yourself the greif. cause you havent even touched the boneheadedness of GW.

If not ignore the mistakes, and wait for FAQs. most games clubs and areas have FAQ'd most of the idiocy coming out of GW in pure self defence. odd as with playtesting and proof reading, most of the errors or ommisions could have been caught and handled. big problem is GW only tests the rules inhouse, and so alot gets overlooked.

LunaHound wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:I read these forums and then feel blessed that GW doesn't write like its fans.

T-T im sorry

It's okay Luna. He wasn't talking about you... He was talking about the other fans... Over there... Yeah.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:I read these forums and then feel blessed that GW doesn't write like its fans.

T-T im sorry

It's okay Luna. He wasn't talking about you... He was talking about the other fans... Over there... Yeah.

Is it me?

Most people are capable of coming to some sort of an understanding within their own gaming group with respect to the many GW screwups. It's only the "Scum of the earth tournament players" who need rock-hard definition of the rules. Me, being one of the hardcore casual players, I just let most of the irregularities slide.

n0t_u wrote:

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:

LunaHound wrote:

Nurglitch wrote:I read these forums and then feel blessed that GW doesn't write like its fans.

T-T im sorry

It's okay Luna. He wasn't talking about you... He was talking about the other fans... Over there... Yeah.

Is it me?

It was n0t_u. Wait...darn it! Curse you and your clever name!

On topic, my friends and I are pretty casual about the game, so we can kind of houserule our way around awkward phrasings. As for the structure of codices (With the whole "refer to page 4. Now page 98. Now page 37. Having fun yet?") I tend to just learn the costs and such quick, so I don't have to keep flipping about. Sure, it's awkward the first few times - though I've noticed 4th Edition codices are much better than 5th Edition codices for not requiring hefty lookups - but once you get things memorized, you rarely need to even look at the codex.

Hawkins wrote: seriously if your disenchanted by just the spelling mistakes, and lack of rules cohesion. youd best switch systems now and save yourself the greif.

...which, coincidentally enough, is pretty much what I do when I get sick of the standard of GW's rules...

40k is a dead easy game to play. at least everything you need is in just a single army book and main rule book. then whatever some players cant figure out they pdf.

Thanks guys for the posts. I guess all I can do is just laugh at them eh? Funny after 25 years you would think they would get their act together.

I don't have a problem with GW's wordings, or its writing, generally its the other player i have the problem with. Raw, and Rai are two different things, and i really hate having to get into a debate about what the definition of a word is. Seriously. I think that casual people who play the game look at something that seems silly look at their opponent and say "this is screwy i think we should play it like this" the opponent who isn't a TFG will say "yeah, maybe can we make it work a little more like this" they both agree have a fun game, and move on. Now, thats the normal fun loving guys, the guys that are the TFG's will spend hours debating weither or not there is a "it" in the word, and then try to base an entire arguement off the fact that the definition of "it" changes the whole books meaning. (seriously, i had a very very very very very long arguement with a gent about a few word meanings, and a few rules he was tailoring to himself to win locally) That. Gets annoying.

At Tournements just hope you have a good Tourny Rules handler man, and if you have a list of "issues" have them address it before the tournement begins incase it will have a gamebreaking effect if you can or cannot in their tournament

Just my imo, i love reading Dakka for the discussion and the you make da call, its interesting to see how many different takes on some things their are, but i really think GW leaves it to you and you'r opponent most of the time to decide how a few wonky things work (love wonky, good word, people should use it more)

" I don't know about Fantasy, since I only did 40K and I am fimiliar a small bit of 40K

Yes I can see a writing problem.

Yours!

LOL!




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Seriously though,

The GW hobby isn't cheap, and its best if you are very hobby oriented or club-(social)game oriented.

If there is a good community at your local store and you have PLENTY of disposable cash (ie: a good job or generous parents) its nice. But I find a decent rpg game on computer (Oblivion!) gets you a far far better value for money, and also a better gaming experience than you will get with miniatures.

The crux is whether you like playing in store as a gaming experience, or whether you enjoy the hobby dimensions of painting and converting (the side I prefer personally). Otherwise you are best spending your dollars on a nice bike or some lagers with some ladies.

OTG.

You can't say that GW didn't warn you. You did know you were getting into a game where the standard melee weapon is a chainsword, or chainsaw sword, right? And the gun is a bolter, a mix of a crossbow with a machine gun? GW has been totally up front that they would butcher common sense, logic, and the English language if they thought they could get away with it and make it cool.

Generally speaking, GW will let sloppy writing ride a few months, then FAQ it after the bandwagon has purchased this broken loophole unit. If the issue is too controversial, they will simply ignore it, like the Deffrolla. No answer on what may (or may not) be the Orks' best answer to AV 14 keeps those conversion kits selling.

A well written, airtight codex sells models once. A standard GW codex sells models everytime it is FAQed, and 3 of the problems that everyone saw with it are fixed, along with 2 or 3 that no one had noticed or cared about. It makes far more economical sense to release poorly edited codexes as long as you have a population that will put up with them.

Gee, you mean people wrote rules for reasonable people of average intelligence, and then a bunch of semi-autistic robots wonder why it doesn't code without bugs? Colour me surprised.

Maybe you should take up golf?!?

Well I sacrifice children over a funeral pyre and ask the gods to read my codex for me, it's as if I was being put to sleep while reading Dr.Seuss except that there are children being sacrificed and gods reading me codex's. Now wait a minute where am I going with this.

I don't think it's a big deal. I've been playing for a long time, and I've never really had any major issues with anyone (regarding gameplay) who wasn't outright cheating or misrepresenting their army and/or rules. 40K is not hard to play, understand or resolve issues as they come up during a game.

I've grown a third eye for perspective lately, and it sees things like this: I am convinced that most people you encounter on a public forum don't actually know how to play, and if there's one thing the internet loves to do (that doesn't involve porn) is to hate on things.

Regarding the new Tyranid book: it's good, it's balanced, and there are no bad choices but you have to think about what you're doing and how you want to do it. Tyranids have always been an army that capitalize on unit synergy and this book is no different.

I don't play 40k for the rules or the writing or the universe, because none of them are that great, especially when you break out of the GW shell and try other games (even just their specialist games). But 40k is fun because it's more mainstream and therefore easier to get roped into with a wider variety of people.
Just stop trying to mentally make 40k into a well designed game (instead of just an avenue to sell figures), instead approach it as a way to have fun with friends.