Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So , just a few questions.

Are there huge differences in Fantasy when compared to 40k?

What are these huge differences?

Are WoC a competitive army?

Thanks in advance.

40k and Fantasy are pretty similar in the archaic "You go, then I go" kind of thing. However, Fantasy has many more restrictions and rules to things like movement, shooting and close combat.

40k units move like Fantasy Skirmishers. They can move/see in any direction and don't have to keep a standard formation. Most infantry and cavalry in Fantasy are ranked units that move in blocked formations. This is typically made much easier through the use of movement trays since it's pretty darn difficult to move a block of twenty models fluidly without one.

Shooting is much less prominent. Modifiers such as moving, long range, etc. can make your BS4 Elves hit on 5's and 6's. Couple that with typically low-strength missiles and it can be underwhelming if you bring a small to moderate amount of shooting. At the same time, most units don't have a particularly high armor save so you stand a good chance of killing whatever you manage to both hit and wound. Of course there are things like Knights and Monsters that shrug off pincushion shooting, but that's what war machines like Cannons and Bolt Throwers are for.

Winning combats is determined by combat resolution which includes things like outnumbering, flank/rear attacks, high ground, war banners, etc. Much more to think about than just running a big monster into a block of rank and files.

There are different missions and bonus point systems in Fantasy as well such as capturing banners, table quarters, etc.

Sounds much more tactical, and more friendly to horde armies in the way of movement trays.

Another question: Since many units are very low points cost (I think its two points for a skaven slave) what is the regular points cost most people play?

I heard that 1500 in 40k was the 2000 in fantasy.

A lot of people play at 2000points, though tournaments tend to skew toward 2250.

For an interesting more Rank and File based game, you can set up for games at 1999 or 2999 (ie, _just_ under the levels to open up more Special/Rare/Hero choices).

Fantasy sounds even better than 40k from what I know atm, shame I'm already entrenched in 40k.

Just a few more questions if Dakka wouldn't mind.

Is an all-goblin army a competitive army?

Is WoC competitive? Say a mono-tzeentch army, or mono-khorne, nurgle, slaneesh, etc.

Gonads has had some success with an all goblin army, but bear in mind that it's a *lot* of models. Most of them can't fight worth anything, and almost all of them are prone to running away. Expect to lose quite a bit until you get a little better...

WoC can be competitive, with some of the popular builds of the moment including a big sorcerer trying to throw off powerful spells (or one in particular) with the potential to win the game, or a large unit of super hard infantry further boosted by chaos gifts and supported by chaos knights. It's tougher to be competitive than with, say Demons or Dark Elves.

Also, a word on mono-god: You get no benefits for going mono-god anymore, unfortunately, so you will be actively hamstringing yourself. It's a conscious choice by the book writers, in the latest edition and has lead to weird things like Khorne units never taking the Banner of Rage, Tzeentch sorcerers wearing collars of Khorne, and other oddness. Not that you can't do it, just that you don't get any extra benefits other than anything you might pick up on soft scores (like painting and comp) which could be significant.

RZ

Karon wrote:Fantasy sounds even better than 40k from what I know atm, shame I'm already entrenched in 40k.

Make the jump! I've gone fully over to fantasy from 40k

I personally like the idea of a mono-god chaos army more than a gobbo army. Like Red_Zeke said, that's a LOT of models... it might burn you out before you really get going with it! Chaos, on the other hand, can have relatively few models by comparison.

Shame on the no benefits for mono-god, made Chaos much more characterful.

Yeah, I definitely want a low-model count army, I still have a daunting 40 guardsmen and 2 Russ's to paint (I couldn't imagine painting 100's of goblins)

And thanks, RTides, I am eager to go to fantasy when I have the $$$, definitely.

So, another question if I could ask:

What armies are generally low model count? Competitive or not, it doesn't matter much to me.

Well, its not that you cant do a mono-god list. I play a mono god list and although its not the most competetive list, it gets the job done. Depending on your list WoC can be a pretty low model count. I run an all plate WoC army and have only between 50-60 models in a 2250

Thats good to hear, is there any other armies (besides ogres, I'm not going to play them) that are low-model count?

And yeah, on chaos I was thinking all-heavy armor kind of thing, with a focus on a hard core of warriors, with a unit of Knights, with plenty of magic, and 2-3 hellcannons.

Apologies for Double-Post

So I picked up the WoC rulebook today (without the main rulebook mind you, so some things are a bit confusing, but my knowledge of 40k helps me out a bit), and Fantasy does look alot more exciting then 40k.

I think I want to run either a heavy-magic list focusing on Tzeentch, or a list with Sigvald, and I'm kind of leaning towards Sigvald.

So, is Sigvald viable for a semi-competitive list? I think he would work well with a block of Chosen.

Aswell, what is everyones thoughts on size for units of Chosen, Knights, and Chaos Warriors? Keep in mind I still don't have the rulebook, so I may be asking a very obvious question. I'll be sure to get the rulebook A.S.A.P

It depends on how your basing your army really, if you want a Death Star Chosen unit that pretty much IS your army, your going to want to make it rather large. Warriors are usually ran in units of 15 or 20 it seems, and knights usually in a unit of 5. Sigvald would make the unit Stubborn Ld10 which would be quite disgusting, as well as the ability to treat all terrain as open ground. However if you for some reason fail your stupidity check, its going to suck big time for that unit of chosen(which will more than likely be a major component if not the spine of your army). So hed probably work well but it could get ugly if you get unlucky.

I don't really want to be cheesy and have half my army sigvald and a block of chosen, lol, I was just thinking like 11 Chosen with Sigvald in the first rank with Great Weapons (I don'[t even know what a Great Weapon does, lol, still need the rulebook)

Yeah thats fine, I was just curious as to how you were running it. Great Weapons wll give them +2 to str but strikes last (unless you charge) and with their weapon skill at str 6... its very disturbing. Why 11 though? unless you plan to run them with 2 ranks of 6. That unit + Sigvald will stil lbe a pretty big part of the army, those 2 alone are over 700 points (considering you give chosen command). So it will still be a big part of the army just not an uber rofl death star of death... yeah..

11 because I thought 2 ranks of 6 was the way to go with Warriors aswell as chosen. Can I choose what way I situate them rank wise? Like 4x4, 6x2, etc?

I'm not sure if chosen would be too expensive though, they are kind of lackluster, all they are is Warriors with a roll on the EOTG table and +1 WS, while they are 3 points more PPM wise. I'm thinking just a block of 17 Warriors (6x3 including Sigvald) accompanied by some units of 5-6 Knights, with 4+ Units of 6x2 Warriors.

I think the warriors are going to get beat due to the combat res in all honesty. They will lose quite often just due to static combat res, cause you will only have 1 rank (and maybe not that assuming that someone kills "2" warriors before you get to combat which is VERY likely.) Youll often find that warriors are already brutal enough in combat that you wont need to have them 6 wide for that extra guy, thats why you see more people running them in blocks of 15 (5x3) or 20 (5x4) cause that gives you static combat res already and you still kick face in killing. I just dont think 4+ units of 12 warriors is going to do you much good, your more than likely to loose your rank before you get to combat in which case youll just get slowly burnt down. Knights are generally fine with just 5 so your good there.

Oh and for ranks, yes you can situate them as you like in terms of how many for a rank, however in combat a "rank" is at least 5 guys and a rank bonus is every full "rank" after your first one. So if you go 6x2 youll get a rank bonus cause its more than five guys in a rank, however if you loose 2 guys so you only have 4 in the second rank, no rank bonus and no extra combat res(you base it off of what you started the combat with however, so if you start with 6x2 and you loose 2, you still get the bonus cause you started with a rank, but next round of combat you wont). So very often you will loose on status combat res (outnumber and the opponents unit has more ranks)

So 5x3 is better...alright, I might have to cut it down to 3 blocks of warriors then.

Sigvald will be the centerpiece with a unit of chosen (size undecided as of now) the EOTG roll will be fun.

Are Chaos Chariots any good?

Apologies for Double Post

I just wanted to ask, should I mount my Exalted Champion if I am putting them in a block of warriors?

I woudlnt, that would also cause you to loose your rank bonus I believe, they are pretty brutal as is, without a mount anyhow

Some guy told me to on anther forum, I was thinking I was missing a benefit because my rulebook is still in the mail system :/, I thought wrong I guess.

I'm getting frustrated with Sigvald, he cost so much melon-fething points, along with my two exalted and scroll caddy Sorcerer, its almost half my army! Let me post their builds to see if its optimal.

Hurr Sigvald 425 points

x2 Exalted; Shield;Whip of Subversion;Bloodcurdling Roar;Mark of Slaneesh 165 each

Sorcerer;M.o.S;Barded Steed;x2 Dispel Scroll

Comes up to 911 points for my Lords and Heroes

That goes along with 3 blocks of warriors with an accompying Exalted for two, and Sigvald with the other.

x3 x14 Warriors of Slaneesh;M.o.S; Great Weapons; Shields

x3 x5 Warhounds (Cannon Fodder)

Coming to this point, I'm starved for points for any knights.

I was thinking an army with Vilitch or whatever the hell his name is, along with a token scroll caddy and two other blasty sorcerers, all on discs along with Warriors and Knights would be more effective.

Any thoughts?

Yup, theres not much you can do about that, in my 2250 my characters make up 945 of my points.

Im not sure thats the best way to run warriors. They have some pretty tasty ld so they arent going to fail tests too often (hopefully) and it really takes away from their full potential I think. It looks like your trying to do a Slaanesh themed army however so if thats the case then by all means go for it. Also, giving the warriors great weapons AND shields is taking away some points.

Unless my math is just way off, Im not sure how exactly your comming short on points.

911 on heroes.
90 on hounds
786 on warriors (without full comand) 876 with command

You can get a unit of Slaanesh Knights for 220 (just a musician and Mos for upgrades)

That brings you to about 2100... Which Im not sure if your going for a 2000 point list or a 2250 (Id recomend this as its what most people seem to play with and it adds for more diversity).

You could always do that Vilitch list. A Tzeentch casty list can be very very deadly to say the least.

The reason for Great Weapons and Shields is that I can defend myself on the charge with HW/Shield, and then crush face on the offensive with Great Weapons. Probably the best 84 points I've spent in the whole list.

I wasn't thinking the "Full Command" which is I assume a Banner and musician to be all that important since Sigvald was in there providing LD10.

2250 you say? I was going for 2000, but I probably should go 2250 since that is the tourney points level, yes?

Quick Question on the Tzeentch list, should I put the Wizards in the blocks of Warriors and slog with them (I was thinking no, terrible idea) or have them ride around seperately on discs?

Oh the choices, Sigvald-Esque Slaneesh list, or Vilitch Tzeentch List?

Sigvald makes my warriors 'arder then they already are, combined with the M.o.S, they're just monsters. The Exalted making them a death-trap in combat.

Vilitch would just add a whole new level of uniqueness with his Dice-Fu ability, making Ogre and Vampire Magic (armies that aren't afraid of failing a third or half of their casts) alot harder to use, while being a level 4 monster of a Sorcerer in himself.

Combined with as many sorcerers I can get, 3 blocks of warriors, and knights, I'd say thats a much more competitive and fun list.

Well you cant change weapons in the middle of combat, so what ever your using the first round of combat, you get to stick with it till the combats over.

Well the standard helps you with +1 combat res, the musician is a tie breaker should you tie combat, and helps you rally.

Hard to say really, I dont run a magic list, far from it, so Id try to ask some one else, but every time I use a disk sorc it gets blown away by war machines.

Its up to you, whatever you prefer.

It seems more often that the magic list would be more competitive though. Again, up to you though.

The Decadent Host
Lords:425

Prince Sigvald the Magnificent, The Geld-Prince

Heroes:450

Exalted of Slannesh;Whip of Subversion;Shield;M.o.S;Bloodcurdling Roar

Exalted of Slannesh;Glaive of Putrefaction;Shield;M.o.S

Sorcerer;M.o.S;x2 Dispel Scroll

Core:875

x3 x14 Chaos Warriors;M.o.S;Great Weapons;Shields

x3 x5 Warhounds

Special:500
x2 x6 Chaos Knights;M.o.S ( I wanted to fit in a musician for each unit, but it was either that or M.o.S)

The list I wrote up after some mates over at Relicnews brought to my attention of me breaking the rules with the double-roar and double-whip thing.