Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Greetings all,

I was flicking through C:SM last night and stumbled upon the Landspeeder Storm - for some reason I'd never noticed it before. I don't play Marines, but I take an interest.

I read about it and thought the idea of dropping CC scouts deep into enemy lines then laying down supporting fire sounded pretty cool... Then I realised that, actually, Scouts aren't that great in combat!

My question: Does anybody actually use these? Is there an excellent use that I haven't considered? Ferrying snipers around or something?

Cheers!

Yes, yes there is. Take a Scout squad with a combi-melta and meltabombs inside a LSS and go alpha strike tank hunting.

24" scout move, 12" move, 2" disembark, 6" assault.

unbeliever87 wrote:Yes, yes there is. Take a Scout squad with a combi-melta and meltabombs inside a LSS and go alpha strike tank hunting.

24" scout move, 12" move, 2" disembark, 6" assault.

Ahh, ok, that is pretty good... Providing your opponent fields vehicles of course. A bit of a suicide run to hope to inflict as much damage as possible before you get obliterated. I like it. For some reason I hadn't considered using a turbo boost as your scout move.

Any other frequent uses? Just to deploy troops to hold objectives?

Just to deploy troops to hold objectives?

Tacticals would prob. be more consistant, durable, able to actually boot anything threatening off of it.

The one thing that kills the package for me is the fragility and being 2 kill points... in addition to the really crappy squad limit and pretty nichy play by them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is just too much competition in the FA slots.

Sanctjud wrote:
The one thing that kills the package for me is the fragility and being 2 kill points... in addition to the really crappy squad limit and pretty nichy play by them.

That's three things

I feel the same way though, I was just curious as to peoples strategies with them. I don't recall ever having come up against one, in fact I'm not sure I've even laid eyes on one! Always pleasant to encounter new things in the game, even if they've been around for ages!

A fun army build I use is this:

Landspeeder storm with heavy flamer, scouts with combi melta etc. Can be good against hordes and tanks. The scout squad rocks against eldar and imperial guardsmen....
2 10 man scout squads with shotguns
1 assault squad with Shrike attached.

2 drop pods with sternguard, with heavy flamers and meltas/combi meltas
1 commandsquad with plasma
1 librarian with null zone and the flamer power. These guys all go in a drop pod.

Tactical squads for holding objectives.

This build is fun to play, but it only shines if you get the first turn and your opponent does not steal the initiative ( has happend half the time I get first turn!!!!). The army is very finesse....a horde of necrons for exampleis a hard nut, as is any army with an ubercharacter in a squad.

The Storm does suffer in Kill Point missions I think. It's a fragile, open-topped AV 10 delivery vehicle that needs to get close to do it's job. That's a built-in challenge already. But where it shines is in an objective mission, where it's a super-fast scoring unit.

Scouts, I'd like to point out, aren't bad in combat, they just aren't the uber-killy, deathstar units that people have gotten so accustomed to lately (Hammernators - I'm looking at you) . Instead, they are a cheap close combat squad. One of the great (tounge-in-cheek) rules of 40K is "Shoot the choppy, Chop the Shooty". The problem with most Shooty units is that they stand so darn far away (mostly). If you want to talk about units that can deliver a choppy unit to the backfield..... I can't think of a faster unit than Scouts in a Storm... a VV squad can't come in till turn 2, anything in a Drop Pod has to wait a turn to assault, Land Raiders with Fleet Terminators have a max 26" range (and require a lot of points and FOC slot commitments in the first place), and maybe the only thing "faster" than Scouts plus LSS, an Infiltrated CC squad, although that's a one time, thing whereas the LSS can sustain that mobility. Also, the LSS has a Scout move up to 24", should you choose to start it on the table, allowing for perhaps even better positioning than an Infiltrate for first turn.

Talk about your obsidian scalpel. Sure it's fragile, sure Scouts aren't the greatest CC unit in the world, but the Sarge can take a Powerfist and a Combi-(Melta), and is WS 4, BS 4. All scouts are T 4, S 4, which isn't shabby. These guys could feasably take out heavy weapon squads, tie up Devestators (and maybe win with PF luck) or Combat Squads with heavy weapons sitting on objectives. The could deliver Meltabombs, Combi-Melta, and Powerfist to a Raider or Russ first turn and get to destroy it before it moves, etc.

I'm working up a Land Speeder Storm right now, so maybe I can offer more when I've had mine on the table a bit. I'm thinking that the best option will be to reserve it to Outflank (since it can).

That's just my take on the unit. I'm gonna get some real experience with it, and I'll correct myself (or congratulate myself) then.

Good luck!

That's a really great contribution GeneralRetreat, I appreciate it. You certainly sound enthusiastic about it! I look forward to hearing your findings!

I think what's been ascertained is that it's not bad, but it's very, very specific. It's not like a Dreadnought or a Predator, you can't just slap one on the board and hope it goes well. It seems that the Landspeeder Storm is the thinking man's vehicle.

As I said earlier, I don't play marines myself, but I find the idea intriguing. I did fancy a scout army at some point, I dare say I'll pick up a Storm to play about with when I do.

I've tested it out in a couple games... and overall its done relatively poorly.. id rather invest the points in one of the other marine fast attack choices which give as much anti tank. The two times I've used it was against old edition nids.. running the storm w/ MM and CC scouts with a powerfist and they did about 1 wound to a fex.. probably not the best opponent to field them against.
2nd was against guard and this time they did very well managing to outflank and get into CC with a vet squad blocking a chimera with more vets and a hellhound and forcing them to go around a building.. more luck then really anything they did tie all three units up for 4 turns tho before dieing.

I can see the value against some lists but honestly id rather run normal speeders or attack bike squads for this job. They are too fragile in every way with a small squad size and a vulnerable transport. For the price of the unit I was running I could get 3 MM attack bikes... or 2 MM/HF speeders.. and have points to spare with fewer kill points.

Storm, 5 Scouts, Fist is like 150 points.
That's 3 MM Attack Bikes. From my experiences, the MM AB's have been rock hard enough for no other FA FoC's to change.

I've been testing out a Scout Squad in LSS recently. In my most recent game, my opponent was going first with a Hydra and had lots of Guardsmen screening his tanks, so I decided to outflank rather than Scout. Ultimately, the LSS came in on turn 4, and on the wrong side of the board. However, it was able to boost 24" on turn 4 and 5 to take an unclaimed objective and win the game. The high mobility of this unit really does count for a lot. That said, more tests are obviously still necessary. I'll keep you guys apprised of my findings.

Sanctjud wrote:Storm, 5 Scouts, Fist is like 150 points.
That's 3 MM Attack Bikes. From my experiences, the MM AB's have been rock hard enough for no other FA FoC's to change.

But...

it's....


Scoring.


I mean really - apples and ... skateboards???

The point is not, and has never been, that it's the most killy unit in the world, or in it's FOC slot, or for the points/kill ratios.

It's SCORING.

What's the estimated points value of the "Scoring" modifier when applied to any unit? Say I could make an Attack Bike Squadron scoring. How much per model then?

Scoring is only important if you are starved of scoring models or are not confident with what you have.

When you use these guys aggressively as their whole look suggests you are throwing them away, scoring or not.

If you are holding them to outflank (which IMO is meh as reserves are free) to get onto an objective, randomly (must) come on is a bitch and they are not that durable.

Can they win the game for you? Yes. But so can the attack bikers as they can contest.
Can they both die to stuff, yes, but I find my Attack Bikes are better in terms of target saturation, str 8+ weapons going their way and 3+ cover saves to boot.

What scouts do to wreck tanks, MMAB do it at range. Smaller profile, able to use reserves should they need to. Charge into combat should they need to.
Scouts do have a leg up in the power fist department, but it's not all pros with it (price, low bodies in scouts to 'protect' the fist, whole squad easier to hit, less durable).

Surely it's a "how you use the unit" argument that the Storm has any chance in my view.
Which it does some neat stuff that MMABs can't do, which comes back to your 'apples vs. oranges' arguement. It's a paper frag grenade in my mind. It's fragile and has the life expectancy up until they engage. It's a frag grenade in that it functions in at least 2 capacities, but not an all-comers sort of unit.

And that is what I value, all-comers. My list will have enough scoring units, a niche unit combo like this is a support unit, not a unit to be relied upon (scoring or not). At least that's how I play/view it.

The only scouts for marines i'll ever use are telion+9 snipers with camo cloaks, dont really fancy spending all that money converting such a flimsy vehicle, same goes for speeders in general for me

/facepalm

Why do I even try?

Make more battle reports and show us their awesome sauce. It's just one of those units (to me) that look crappy, much like possessed, spawn, lesser daemons, dreads that get alot of flakk and need to be shown doing good things rather than just saying in text I suppose.

Why do you try? Because you are passionate about an 'under dog' unit.
I've asked the same question of myself when trying to support Possessed with a certain rationale for it...but it gets shot down and can be exhausting.

I know how you feel GeneralRetreat, just sharing the love

Maybe you need to re-evaluate your version of "love".

You brought in a narrow idea about a unit you've never used before, and you're trashing it to a player who is looking for advice.

Your previous tone suggests contempt for someone even considering using it. This is not a good way to come across to someone who is trying to experiment with the game and learn about a new unit they have no experience with.

All you serve to do is frustrate and confuse, and that, my friend, is damaging to the hobby and all of us in the end. I'd highly suggest you start thinking about your posts in terms of "What am I adding to the conversation, and to the hobby in general?" before posing snide and unfounded criticism obviously designed to stroke your own ego while convincing a newer player to play in *your* comfort zone.

You should congratulate someone for trying something new and different, not seeking to knock it down to get some kicks. All your comments prove is that you are not imaginative enough of a player to see the potential of a unit. If you don't like it, don't play it. But don't rain on everyone else's parade. I'm sure you have better uses for your time.

DEATH89 wrote:The only scouts for marines i'll ever use are telion+9 snipers with camo cloaks, dont really fancy spending all that money converting such a flimsy vehicle, same goes for speeders in general for me

You know the LSS has an official model that looks really good, right?

I ran my scout list and ive had nice time playing it . Even though alot of people were saying i was dumb in doing the biker command squad. But its effective. So far 5/1/1...

Hey all just wanted to drop my 2 cents. I use the LSS in my list alot. As I use vulkan I mount a Multi Melta on it and use it for tank hunting. the scouts inside 3 have shotguns, 1 heavy bolter, and 1 sgt. with pf and bolt pistol. I have found as long as I am targeting weak/small units that combats go very well especially with the cerebrus launcher. Also out of the last 5 games it has only been destroyed once, and with it so close to their starting edge/objective people tend to focus fire it alot allowing other more important units to get across the board into combat/objective taking.

Also if you want to see an LSS painted there is one in my gallery. Not the best paint job but I like it.

@StarGate:
A biker command squad is not dumb, it just depends on what role you have for them and how many points you've thrown onto them.

As for 5/1/1... meh, though at 7 games strong, Grandfather Nurgle is liking that number .

_____________-

@GeneralRetreat:

You brought in a narrow idea about a unit you've never used before, and you're trashing it to a player who is looking for advice.

I’ve played against it, but I’m sure that just doesn’t count right? Any experience involving them is not welcomed? Nothing is without their faults… I point them out, simple as that. I’m sure you all can shine the light on their better parts.

Your previous tone suggests contempt for someone even considering using it. This is not a good way to come across to someone who is trying to experiment with the game and learn about a new unit they have no experience with.

Contempt…hmmm that seems like a weird word to use.

My first post here:
*Tacticals would … be more consistent.
*I pointed another issue with them is being 2 soft kill points.
*General remark about lots of FA choices already.

Adding onto it:
Final grabs are nice, but are always risky.

Second Post here:
It was in response to your “But…it’s…scoring” line.
You spaced it out looking all cool, so I had to put down my stance on scoring/contesting/seeking alternatives.
I don’t see how it’s being contempt of people using storms…just saying I see another option being better. I’m not saying “he has to follow what I say ‘or else.’”

My Fourth Post here:
Was another response to you again.
More battle reports to show their awesome sauce. I was genuine here. The whole mentioning of the possessed is what I was trying to do to even out these…wrinkles lets say (though it seemed to not work).

Sharing the love: with 3 laughy faces afterwards…that means take this line crazy seriously?
I was being genuine again.
I know how it feels to defend a unit like storm from my experiences with using possessed. It’s through the horrid depths of muck that go me through to them to call them a functional unit.
If I can drag the Storm through the mud and it comes out shooting, it would show it to be quite functional.
Which it is. I didn’t say it can’t do its job, it’s just that the durability/opportunity cost is an important factor that makes me shy away from them.

All you serve to do is frustrate and confuse, and that, my friend, is damaging to the hobby and all of us in the end. I'd highly suggest you start thinking about your posts in terms of "What am I adding to the conversation, and to the hobby in general?" before posing snide and unfounded criticism obviously designed to stroke your own ego while convincing a newer player to play in *your* comfort zone.

What am I adding: "Be cautious about the choice".
Never did I say he should be playing like me, the only advice I can offer is from my point of view...can I offer him your point of view?

But don't rain on everyone else's parade. I'm sure you have better uses for your time.

Shouldn't someone seeking more information about unit not only be informed of the Sunshine, Rainbow, and lollipops of a unit, but also the rainy side; Tantras could get a balanced look at the unit.

My rain can serve as a caution of what not to do, or what to avoid with the said squad, or to have a reasonable expectation of that combo.

Fetterkey wrote:

DEATH89 wrote:The only scouts for marines i'll ever use are telion+9 snipers with camo cloaks, dont really fancy spending all that money converting such a flimsy vehicle, same goes for speeders in general for me

You know the LSS has an official model that looks really good, right?

Indeed!

I claim ignorance that is awesome but again how much does it cost? if its more than £12 i dont think its worth it

It's open topped so you can shoot out of it, right? You take a 10man scout squad, combat squad them, buy a flamer and run around flaming people til it blows up.

The jamming beacon doesn't suck vs. chaos and daemons either.

A question springs to mind as to if the speeder can fire after the scouts disembark since it carries 5 so no pilots left to shoot. ??

DEATH89 wrote:I claim ignorance that is awesome but again how much does it cost? if its more than £12 i dont think its worth it

£18 mate. I don't think there's any vehicles that come in at £12 now is there? I think it's a lovely model for the price - now I just need to decide if building a scout army will be worth it!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To Agnosto:

It will still be able to operate... A rhino carries passengers, but when they all get out it still drives around.

The combat squad thing is a nice idea though!

Yeah its good value sculpt and painting enjoyment-wise but i personally dont think i could justify spending that on it when its so fragile, I hate the idea of suicide squads.
i spend all that time and money on something just to see it gimp 1 thing and be annihilated, seems like a waste to me but i know some use those tactics and swear by them.

I use one in my 'Ard Boyz list (placed 4th in semi's incase someone was gonna ask) with a multi-melta, carrying 5 CC scouts and melta bomb on the Sgt. Has been an extrodinary unit in terms of point retuns. Total of 145 pts I think it is, for that load out and in the semi's alone I watched them wipe out a chimera(the storm's shot) and 2 Battle tanks and stun the third on the first turn. In another game I used them simply as a Hammer in an alpha strike on a Seer jet bike council that had just been blasted by my 'pod crew (Cassius, libby w/avenger, techmarine w/ full servo harness, 4 BP Assault marines, and a flamer assault marine) that landed behind them as an anvil and the scouts reduced them to 3 models after pistoling and charging in with their 16 attacks to break the rest of the council which got bliped by the pod squad behind them when the tried to flee. The shear amount of vehicle killing madness these guys can do on the first turn for so cheap makes them a very powerful and cheap unit to toss into your mix.

Okay, thats pretty damned awesome, especially for the points, I thought 115 for 6 long fangs with heavy bolters was good value.

I gotta say that the model itself is nice...
There is alot of room for conversion on such a nice specimen..

Regarding their usage, I've yet to come across one and knock it out of the sky with my boyz..
At least I will know what to look out for on the battlefield

I'm about to enter in a doubles tournament, using a Storm with a H-bolter, scouts with CCW, the sarge will have a power fist and a shotty, and a H-bolter. The idea I'm going to use is:
Outflank near a lightly defended objective, drop the scouts, shoot, charge, bash the living out of them, Cerberus launchers, set down the H-bolter and pump out some lead from behind them.