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Alright, everything is the same except:

Rapid fire has two firing modes, the current one, as well as this:

Range S AP Type:
6" X X Assault 3

X means the stats equal to the weapon.

The entire squad must choose which firing mode to use. When firing from this mode, all shots count as hitting on BS2. In addition, the squad MUST assault if possible in the Assault Phase.


And yeah, that's my proposal. When you think about it, if someone assaults with a rifle, they will charge at you while spraying bullets in your general direction.

What do you guys think?

i do not believe that they HAVE to assault and i disagree with the Assault 3 from all ranges the closer you be the faster it'll shoot but still not be the all or nothing maybe 3 modes of range 1 shot 2shot and 3 shot from different ranges

rapid fire is fine the way it is. Frankly i'd find it a hassel to have to deal with an akward change like that

I would vote no, because this is a philosophical change, not just a game-function change.

GW does not WANT people with Rapid Fire weapons to be able to assault after firing. That is the purpose of Assault weapons. That's why Shoota Boys have Assault weapons, not Rapid Fire weapons. It's also why Space Marines have Rapid Fire weapons, and not Assault weapons.

In addition, this would utterly unbalance some units. For instance; CSM with an Icon of Khorne. 30 S4 BS2 shots = 10 hits, 5 wounds, then they charge in with 40 attacks. Ridiculous.

Rapid Fire is a mechanism put in place, deliberately, to limit the power of some units, and I don't see any reason it should change.

ZacktheChaosChild wrote:Alright, everything is the same except:




And yeah, that's my proposal. When you think about it, if someone assaults with a rifle, they will charge at you while spraying bullets in your general direction.

What do you guys think?

I think you have neither watched a WW2 or 1 movie where they affix bayonets and charge.

You don't run forwards firing your rifle wildly ever. All that is going to do is get your mates killed and waste ammo.

The problem, I think, lies not with the philosophy, but with the name. Rapid fire weapons in 40k don't actually fire in the Rapid fire setting. Rapid fire weapons are semi-automatic. It's stated in the rules that One pull of the trigger is one shot, possibly a burst, no more.

Assault weapons are the spray and pray weapons.

all I think is, rapid fire should be allowed to assault.

WHY CAN'T I ASSAULT IF I'M FIRING A RIFLE, I MEAN, IT'S NOT A SINGLE-SHOT OR BOLT-ACTION RIFLE.

I MEAN WHAT IS IT, WHAAA WHAAA WHAAA I FIRED. I PAWNED YOU. OHSHI- I CAN'T ASSAULT. YOU'LL KILLSSSS MEEEEE. :<



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually, just reading mikes comment, wouldn't they have a setting that allows you to assault?

It could be "rapid fire = 1 shot at 24", 2 shots at 12" or one shot at 12" that counts as assault.

I mean, it's not LIKE a bolter wouldn't have auto-fire? and why WOULDN'T a las rifle.

Not necessarily.

The M-16/M-4 Do not have an automatic setting, it has Semi-Auto (one shot per trigger squeeze) and burst (three shots). You almost never place the weapon on burst.

Rapid Fire works the way it is in the game. We've had this thread before, and this kind of rule change would not only imbalance things between assault weapons and rapid fire, it would only benefit certain armies. It doesn't matter how you change rapid fire weapons to facilitate assault, it's not going to do much good for Fire Warriors.

For Orks on the other hand, it would really make them even more willing to charge in after unleashing a hail of fire.

Fire Warriors assaulting? pfft... :p

WarOne wrote:For Orks on the other hand, it would really make them even more willing to charge in after unleashing a hail of fire.

Fire Warriors assaulting? pfft... :p

Orks don't have any Rapid-Fire weapons, though I wouldn't mind it seeing as we are already BS 2

Kroot Loops wrote:The M-16/M-4 Do not have an automatic setting, it has Semi-Auto (one shot per trigger squeeze) and burst (three shots). You almost never place the weapon on burst.

Actually the M16 does NOT have burst features. Only the M16A2 had no auto feature with burst (and even then, modifying it to automatic was relatively easy and common in the field). And the M4, while it had a burst feature, the M4A1, the current iteration of the M4, is also automatic.

The reason most soldiers didn't use burst was because it wasn't very useful. Basically it combined the worst parts of automatic and semi-automatic into one package, while only limiting ammunition consumption. You weren't very accurate with burst, because it only burst, you can't get a good rhythm with the weapon like you can with semi-automatic and automatic. Meanwhile, you are still not able to keep up a consistent rate of fire like you can with automatic and semi-automatic.

The reason burst was invented was only to conserve ammunition. It was a lesson that should not have been learned from Vietnam, as a soldier could burn up their ammunition supply in a few minutes. Burst didn't help that much, nor does it improve accuracy. Since Afghanistan started, the M16A2 and M4 are being replaced in front line units by M4A1 and M16A3/4, which all have automatic. Why automatic? It suppresses your enemy with volume of fire! More bullets in the air instills fear in your enemy! Combine that with American accuracy, and you have a devastating combination of sustained accurate fire!

The M16A4 I had most certainly had burst, as did all our M4s, so it's a pretty recent change, within the last four years.

With the fire support and sheer superiority we wave against the current enemy, auto fire on rifles doesn't make much sense. The SAW and 240 put down effective suppression fire, and virtually all troops in Iraq have some sort of heavy fire support with them, ranging from .50 cals on humvees, all the way up to M2 Bradleys.

Increasing the rate of fire on a 30 round magazine doesn't make sense when you have better weapons for it already, and would not seem sustainable in any situation not fostered by the current standards of relatively small scale clashes followed by a return to base, and an enemy incapable of over running even the smallest patrol base.

To be on topic, having a SM with a bolter out Ork an Ork with a Shoota just seems plain wrong.

but in the future, SM are going to know how to shoot controlled bursts of fire, they won't need a 3'mode fire select.

Captain Solon wrote:but in the future, SM are going to know how to shoot controlled bursts of fire, they won't need a 3'mode fire select.

Which has nothing to do with Rapid fire should not work like an assault weapon when you're in range to assault.

The only change to rapid fire I think should happen is this. Half range for rapid fire instead of 12 inches. What good is a 48 inch range kroot gun that gets cut to 12 inches just because you moved?

If it were to fire assault 3 within 6", I'd really hope the firer's BS was reduced by 1 to accommodate the bullet spray. I can't say I like the idea though.

perhaps just 1/2 range of weapon for rapid fire

being able to move and fire at max range

would help them, yet not make them the same as asasult

The real answer is this:

Change for each weapon, I'll do bolter.

Bolter 24" 4 5 Rapid fire

Rapid fire:
fire one shot at 24" if you don't move.
fire two shots at 12" if you don't move or if you do.
fire one shot at 6" if you wish to assault.

I realise the idea of rapid fire is troops aren't supposed to charge.

my opinion, final.

This was the exact same proposal in the last rapid fire thread, and the answer really is, this is why they give pistols to certain armies

I like mehs a differnet weapon instead of a bolt pistol :<

Captain Solon wrote:Change for each weapon, I'll do bolter.

Bolter 24" 4 5 Rapid fire

Rapid fire:
fire one shot at 24" if you don't move.
fire two shots at 12" if you don't move or if you do.
fire one shot at 6" if you wish to assault.

Captain Solon wrote:I like mehs a differnet weapon instead of a bolt pistol :<

So basically if you want to assault you'd rather:

Fire a boltgun with 6" range.

Than:

Fire a boltpistol with a 12" range.



This is stupid :(

Cpt Solon, all your proposal would do is remove the point of pistols other than the possibility of an extra attack. Also it would make plasma guns even better, as you would be getting a plasma pistol with it. So I say keep it the same, don't make rapid fire troops like assault troops, because then there's really not much point having assault . . .

Oshova

Makes more sense to me.