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1850 Pts - Orks Roster - Villun Zagwazza's Kill Kult

HQ: Warboss (130 pts)
Attack Squig; Bosspole; Cybork Body; Mega Armour

HQ: Warboss (130 pts)
Attack Squig; Bosspole; Cybork Body; Mega Armour

Troops: 5 Meganobz (330 pts)
Shoota/Rokkit Kombi-weapon x1; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x1;

Battlewagon: Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Red Paint Job

Troops: 5 Meganobz (330 pts)
Shoota/Rokkit Kombi-weapon x1; Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x1;

Battlewagon: Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Red Paint Job

Troops: Shoota Boyz Mob - 19 boyz, 1 Nob (170 pts)
Big Shoota x2
Boyz Nob: Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Troops: Shoota Boyz Mob - 19 boyz, 1 Nob (170 pts)
Big Shoota x2
Boyz Nob: Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Troops: Shoota Boyz Mob - 19 boyz, 1 Nob (170 pts)
Big Shoota x2
Boyz Nob: Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (140 pts)
Big Shoota; Kannon; Armour Plates; Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (140 pts)
Big Shoota; Kannon; Armour Plates; Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (140 pts)
Big Shoota; Kannon; Armour Plates; Deff Rolla; Red Paint Job

Total Roster Cost: 1850

Not the most original list and not a lot of variety, but definitely hard to deal with at 1850 points.
5 troops choices, 5 Battlewagons, 2 Killy Warboss' With Killy retinues.

No cover but then that's what armor 14 is for.
Lots of shooting (which is all you can ask for from orks)
Good in the assault (I don't care if they are just shoota boyz, that's still a lot of attacks)
Fast: 12 inch move in the Battlewagons and can assault the same turn they disembark. If the BW's get popped, they can all run.
Every unit scores.
Lots of PK's for high armor/high toughness models.
Makes the most of the WAAAGH!

I have a tourney coming up and look at this as a viable list now that the Nids have been released.

I am concerned I have no Grot Riggers on the Battlewagons. Should I swap out armored plates for Grot Riggers?
I could also drop the Red Paint to give all of the Battlewagons Deff Rolla's and I would have 10 points to spare for maybe a couple of boarding planks?

What do you guys think? Not only about the proposed changes but also the list in general. I am thinking of a Bad Moons Klan color scheme.
__________________

My only complaint is no KFF mech. Its hard to believe how that 4+ save saves your ass each and every game. Other than that, awesome list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
actually, drop the shooty element completely. make the shoota boyz slugga, and add deff rollas to your BWs then you will be good. You want to get stuck in ASAP...dont mess around with shooting.

Maybe remove one Warboss and add a KFF mek? You still get 4 troops and 5 battlewagons, and you aren't using your elite slots anyway.
I'd feel uneasy without the KFF I think, it's just so good

The Meganob wagons definitely need reinforced rams, which you could afford to add if you replaced the 2nd Warboss with a KFF mek (saves you 45 pts).

Bad_Sheep, don't you think Slugga's are a waste of the Open Topped nature of the Battlewagon? Shootas are still fairly reasonable fighters when compared to slugga boyz, but are vastly superior shooters, adding a bit of versatility to your unit. I don't think I'd want to remove all the shooty elements, infact I might want to add more, so that you aren't forced to move into melta-range or charge transport vechicles.

Another upgrade that I think is mandatory is boarding planks! Having to get out to charge a vehicle is really, really bad as even if you do blow it up, your entire squad will take a ton of hits from the explosion, be in a very nice "please flame me" formation and be completely vulnerable to a counter assault (or having templates dropped on their silly little heads). Realistically, the main damage dealer against a vehicle is going to be your Nob and his PK anyway, so just let him hit from the safety of his wagon. Then there's no unit to counter charge, and a BW couldn't care less about any potential debris flying about.

Are deff rollas legal vs vehicles wherever you play? If not I'd consider replacing them with rams to help make points for more shooty/more planks (although you have enough points to do that anyway if you replace the Warboss with the KFF mek).

There's no wonder or amazement to why a KFF is mandatory to a mech list. The KFF makes your vehicles survivability increase to survivable x2. By blocking half the shots leveled at you, you have effectively made 5 battlewagons tearing across the battlefield as difficult to stop as 10 battlewagons.

There simply is no way that your mech list can be truly optimized without a KFF. Period. Period again. Yeah.

Where are the burnas??? *starring surprised*

I have to second and third the KFF. Fast moving vehicles, turbo-boosting vehicles, koptas, bikes, raiders, skimmers.....in fact, pretty much all the vehicles except for Tau and Space Marine, and the have deep striking suits or turn1 drop pods with chain fists, melta guns, and other bad things that can drop in right behind your formation...all those things can put a hurt into the battlewagons.

Interestingly, I don't see a huge need for burnas in there. Burnas are great for dealing with two things:

1. Big mobs of orks / hormagants / other tyranid swarms / other army swarms

2. Monstrous creatures.

Now that Tyranid MCs have gotten a makeover and S6 is the flavor of the day, I think diversified nobs or meganobs are a good answer. Honestly, I think a diversified nob squad would be much more appropriate here. =p

No, i really do not think shootas are worth it. Compared to an extra 20 attacks on the charge at WS 4 S4, your going to do ALOT more than trying to hit on a BS2. Also, you should be getting stuck in on turn 2 so you wont be using those shootas to long.

I also agree with W0chtulka...where in the hell are the burnas!?!?!?! After seeing how they perform, i NEVER leave home without them. 1 squad of 15 burnas will wipe out 3 to 4 times the amount that a Boyz squad will wipe out...no lie. A lot of the time they wipe out 2 squads a turn...their brutal.

OP, play how you want. Opinions here are just for giggles.

I personally like shoota boyz because of their versatility. The only slot where I always use sluggas are any list where I am really trying for the turn two charge with a Ghazghkull waaagh move.

Otherwise, shootas assault as well as sluggas if you get to shoot first, and of course, they kick way more tail as a shooting unit. The mechanized shoota boyz can rove as a moving firebase, tossing out 34 shoota shots, 6 big shoota shots, nob slugga shot, and whatever the battlewagon contributes. If the BW gets blown up in the transit, shoota boyz can contribute more running up the field with their rifles than sluggas. If you put the shoota boyz outside of the pack of battlewagons, you ensure that there are no shots to the KFF mek, Ghaz, or whatever is delivering the true joy to the enemy as long as they are around.

But that's just me. Orks with tons of oversized guns amuse.

Back to the OP's list. Couple of points for your consideration:

You should consider boarding planks and rams on your vehicles, given all the PKs and your desire to get into assault range. Plus, you need more anti-armor and boarding plank/power klaw combo will help with that.

I'm not a fan of meganobz, but whatever floats your boat. The individual nob brigade works better.

Consider Ghazghkull instead of one of your regular warbosses. He *is* that great.

Kustom Force Field is strongly recommended for the umpteenth time in this thread.

Everything else is gravy, IMO. Burnas are great, but not needed in every list. Have fun.

Bad_Sheep37 wrote:No, i really do not think shootas are worth it. Compared to an extra 20 attacks on the charge at WS 4 S4, your going to do ALOT more than trying to hit on a BS2. Also, you should be getting stuck in on turn 2 so you wont be using those shootas to long.

I also agree with W0chtulka...where in the hell are the burnas!?!?!?! After seeing how they perform, i NEVER leave home without them. 1 squad of 15 burnas will wipe out 3 to 4 times the amount that a Boyz squad will wipe out...no lie. A lot of the time they wipe out 2 squads a turn...their brutal.

Taking burnas means you have either one less battlewagon, or one less scoring unit... Could just stick a ton of kombi skorchas on his Meganobz and call it good (yeah, not as amazing in terms of numbers but S5 AP4 Templates are pretty good).

number9dream wrote:
Taking burnas means you have either one less battlewagon, or one less scoring unit... Could just stick a ton of kombi skorchas on his Meganobz and call it good (yeah, not as amazing in terms of numbers but S5 AP4 Templates are pretty good).

You hit the nail on the head. The real weakness of this list is going to be mission objectives. If I am stuck in combat against a more mobile and more numerous opponent they will be able to swoop in and claim anything I cannot contest. Burnas are best when they are in the back of a wagon. By giving them a wagon I have to take one away somewhere else. So this effectively takes away the mobility/survivability of 2 scoring units. While I agree burnas in a battlewagon can be awesome, I do not think this is the right list to put them in.

As far as KFF and boarding planks, I agree and have already started looking at changes. But again, going with a KFF takes away another scoring unit. So for this particular list it is either a KFF or burnas... I think the majority will agree on the KFF. Please tell me if I am wrong.

Now as for the Deff Rollas: My group does not allow them to be used against vehicles. But they are awful nice when tank-shocking, but the fact that everything still gets an armor save really hurts. So I think Deff Rollas will be out and replaced with reinforced rams.

I have never played a list with 5 Battlewagons yet. Thus far my max has been 3. But even then I wish I had some shoota boyz to "thin the herds" before the charge into combat. Essentially you end up with the same amount of attacks on the charge because you get the extra shot before combat. It is S4 same as your CC attack on the charge. The difference is that you can resolve 1/4 of your attacks before you get locked into combat. Besides, even on the charge orks usually end up going last anyways. So figure in the number of boyz lost before they get to strike and you actually come out ahead with shootas instead of sluggas.
The place where sluggas are better is the 2nd round of combat and beyond. They get an extra attack but that is where their benefit in combat ends. With virtually no armor save and S3 on successive rounds of combat your losses tend to far outweigh your gains. Ork troops need to win combats on the charge, otherwise they lose to many models.

The other thing that shootas are good for is claiming objectives. Put them in cover and they can camp out, taking pot shots at anything passing by.

So while I understand the desire for so many to take sluggas, I do not think this is really the list for them. Maybe 1 unit but not all 3.
I will try to post a revision here for your review later today. Thanks to everyone for their input thus far. I hope you will keep it coming.

Revised list with KFF, boarding planks, skorchas, reinforced rams and armored plates... As always your input is requested and appreciated.
Still on the fence on weather or not to make 1 unit of boys sluggas.

1850 Pts - Orks Roster - Villun Zagwazza's Kill Kult

HQ: Mega-armoured Warboss (130 pts)
Attack Squig; Bosspole; Cybork Body

HQ: Big Mek (110 pts)
Choppa; Kustom Force Field; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Cybork Body; Grot Oiler x1

Elite: Meganobz (5#, 355 pts)
5 Meganobz - Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x5
Battlewagon - Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram

Troops: Meganobz (5#, 355 pts)
5 Meganobz - Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x5
Battlewagon - Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram

Troops: Shoota Boyz (20#, 170 pts)
Big Shoota x2
1 Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Troops: Shoota Boyz (20#, 170 pts)
Big Shoota x2
1 Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Troops: Shoota Boyz (20#, 170 pts)
Big Shoota x2
1 Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (130 pts)
Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (130 pts)
Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (130 pts)
Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram

Why do your MANZ Battlewagons have kannons? You're going to be rolling up the field to get into assault range, right? if that's what you're doing, those kannons will almost never fire. . . and when they do fire, they won't do anything spectacular.

I like this idea, it could work.

My only complaint is the lack of anti tank. If they are allowed to effect vehicles, add Deffrollas.

If not, your going to need to get used to the boardin plank/grabbin klaw combo, which with that amount, might be sufficient.

The kannons will fire, they are the optimal choice as S4 blast defensive weapons. I would reconsider the big shootas on the boyz though, perhaps to pick up some grabbin' klaws instead. Realy helps against skimmer spams like mech eldar. Then you auto-hit their armour 10 rear with your power klaw.

As I pointed out earlier, my local group does not allow Deff Rollas to work vs. Vehicles. That is one of the reasons they were dropped.

As far as the Grabbin Klaw - They work at the beginning of the enemy movement phase and then you don't get the attack until your next turn. Even then it only works on a 4+.
Unfortunately, it ends up being a waste of points more times than not. I would be better off firing shoota boyz into the rear armor of a skimmer.

4+ fails often, but rolled five times against 1 vehicle a turn, it does not. Even 2 or 3 are pretty reliable.

I like the list by the way. It makes me think of professional ork soldiers. =)

For the MANz, I'd probably keep one without a kombi weapon and one with a kombi-rokkit, so you can do some wound allocation.

That'd leave you with 10 points for grabbin klaws

Some great ideas here. Thanks to everyone for all of the input thus far.
Here are my latest changes: Swapped out 2 Kombi-skorchas in each MANZ unit for a Kombi-Rokkit and a twin-linked shoota.
Dropped 1 Big shoota from each shoota boyz unit
Added a Grabbin Klaw to all 5 Battlewagons to use up the points.

1850 Pts - Orks Roster - Villun Zagwazza's Kill Kult

HQ: Mega-armoured Warboss (130 pts)
Attack Squig; Bosspole; Cybork Body

HQ: Big Mek (110 pts)
Choppa; Kustom Force Field; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Cybork Body; Grot Oiler x1

Elite: Meganobz (5#, 355 pts)
5 Meganobz - Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x3, Shoota/Rokkit Kombit-weapon x1, Twin-linked shoota x1
Battlewagon - Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram; Grabbin Klaw

Troops: Meganobz (5#, 355 pts)
5 Meganobz - Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x3, Shoota/Rokkit Kombit-weapon x1, Twin-linked shoota x1
Battlewagon - Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram; Grabbin Klaw


Troops: Shoota Boyz (20#, 170 pts)
Big Shoota x1
1 Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Troops: Shoota Boyz (20#, 170 pts)
Big Shoota x1
1 Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Troops: Shoota Boyz (20#, 170 pts)
Big Shoota x1
1 Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (130 pts)
Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram; Grabbin Klaw

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (130 pts)
Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram; Grabbin Klaw

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (130 pts)
Big Shoota x1; Kannon; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram; Grabbin Klaw

Are we there yet? What do you think?

Am I tourney ready yet?

How do you think this will do vs. the new Nid dex? IG?

After reviewing some of the other lists and seeing Dash's problems in his list I made some more adjustments.
All in all, it works quite well. So far my only problem has been dice rolling. But this list rolled over a mechanized SM list with 2 LR's quite handily. Annihilation 11-4 ( and had the game gone another turn it woulds have been 13-4 as all my opponent had left was a immobile LR and an immobile Rhino.
With the good size of the MANZ squad I really didn't miss the warboss at all. (They were also big enough to keep my big mek safe and sound the whole game.)

Buggies drew a lot of fire, but bad dice rolls limited their impact. Lots of hits but lots of 1-2's for damage rolls.
Kombi-skorchas worked great... took out 2 termies with 1 shot and wiped out the remains of a broken unit with another.
MANZ busted up a Termie assualt squad, a LR and a Rhino and a SM captain in Termie armor. (with the help of a shoota boyz mob.)
Shoota boyz and Lootas ended up wiping out 2 scout squads, 1 termie assault squad, and 3 ten man tac squads.
Deff-Kopta took out a Rhino and harassed the enemy until turn 4 when it ate a lascannon from a LR.

In the end I lost 1 Buggy squadron, 1 Shoota boyz unit, the deffkota and the lootas.

I will need to play-test this some more but overall it is a very versatile list.

1850 Pts - Orks Roster - Villun Zagwazza's Kill Kult

HQ: Big Mek (110 pts)
Choppa; Kustom Force Field; 'Eavy Armour; Bosspole; Cybork Body; Grot Oiler x1

Elite: Meganobz (440 pts)
7 Meganobz - Shoota/Skorcha Kombi-weapon x7
1 Battlewagon - Big Shoota x1; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grabbin' Klaw; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram

Troops: Boyz (160 pts)
19 Boyz - Shootas
1 Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz (160 pts)
19 Boyz - Shootas
1 Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Troops: Boyz (160 pts)
19 Boyz - Shootas
1 Boyz Nob - Power Klaw; Slugga; Bosspole

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (125 pts)
Big Shoota x1; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grabbin' Klaw; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (125 pts)
Big Shoota x1; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grabbin' Klaw; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram

Heavy Support: Battlewagon (125 pts)
Big Shoota x1; Armour Plates; Boarding Plank; Grabbin' Klaw; Grot Rigger; Reinforced Ram

Fast Attack: Warbuggies (105 pts)
3 Warbuggies - Twin Linked Rokkit Launchas

Fast Attack: Warbuggies (105 pts)
3 Warbuggies - Twin Linked Rokkit Launchas

Elite: Lootas (165 pts)
11 Lootas - Deffguns

Fast Attack: Deffkopta (70 pts)
Buzzsaw x1; Choppa; Twin Linked Rokkit Launcha x1

Only things I'd say is you don't need HA and CB on the Mek, and I would have 1 S/R and one normal guy in the Meganobz squad making the first model down a four wound affair.

As well how has the BP and GK combo gone for you so far?

I feel better with the HA and CB on the mek for things like vehicle explosions. A 6+ armor save is about the same as no save at all. Never know when your vehicle might get shot out from under you or if the mek is repairing a vehicle and it gets blown up. Also helps in case you end up in combat with another character. Not that many points for some piece of mind. I really like still having a KFF on turn 5.

As for the BP/GL the BP worked very well. I was able to immobilize a LR with one of my Meganobz. The GK didn't really do anything because anything I intended to use it on was already immobilized from getting whacked with a PK courtesy of the BP.

I really like the idea of being able to do drive-by Klaws on vehicles though.
- i.e. Drive up and whack vehicle with PK via the boarding plank. If they don't finish the job then during the enemy movement phase they use the Grabbin Klaw. Then on your next turn the unit that used the klaw drives off to another target and another unit with a boarding plank drives up to finish off the vehicle. Makes units of slugga/shoota boyz deadly to vehicles as long as you have the PK nob and keeps the whole army moving forward while minimizing risk to your troops.