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Can a Tau commander be picked out in combat? Seems a simple question with a nice easy yes.

Until you throw drones into the equation!!

A Commander with drones counts as an upgrade character to those drones and they form 1 unit. Hence attacking a commander with drones he can not be picked out. Well again this seems pretty obvious and is not at all contentious.

However the Commander can still another unit. So the question is can he and his drones be picked out as a separate unit if they are within another unit of crisis teams? They are no longer an IC (until all the drones die), in fact the notion of an IC unit being 2-3 models doesn't even begin to make sense.

So what do people think? The commander and drones count as an IC unit attached to the squad and therefore can join and levae the suqad as a normal IC and still be singled out in combat? Or can you not count him and is drones as an IC because it doesn;t state you can hence he can not be singled out in combat and can never leave a unit he joins?

FlingitNow wrote:Can a Tau commander be picked out in combat? Seems a simple question with a nice easy yes.

Commander + Drones = 1 Unit
Unit he is attached to = 1 unit.

In CC you can choose to attack one unit or the other, the same as a normal multiple combat.

Commander + Drones = 1 Unit
Unit he is attached to = 1 unit.

In CC you can choose to attack one unit or the other, the same as a normal multiple combat.

I can see where you are coming from, but the commander + drones and the attached unit = 1 unit once attached. Or are you claiming they can still be shot at seperately? Can still shoot seperately and are in fact not joined as the rules say they are?

If they can be singled out what mechanic are you using for that? Just looking for the RAW.

I'd play RAI that works as you've stated.

Because the commander still counts as an IC, whcih is why he can join another unit.

Because of this you can pick the commander plus drones out in close combat.

Because the commander still counts as an IC,

Does he? why?

whcih is why he can join another unit.

No he can join another unit because he is given express permission to do so.

If the Tau commander has the IC rule, then he doesn't lose it unless it specifically tells you that he does (i.e. retinue he can't leave is the only one referenced in the RB, like the DE Archons). Even with the drones, as the drones are not a retinue, but wargear.

If that is the case, then he may be picked out in CC, and the drones follow their rules for being able to take saves for the drone controller.

If the Tau commander has the IC rule, then he doesn't lose it unless it specifically tells you that he does (i.e. retinue he can't leave is the only one referenced in the RB, like the DE Archons). Even with the drones, as the drones are not a retinue, but wargear.

He is an IC that forms a unit with the drones that he can't leave, a unit that is purchased with him and has to stay with him at all times. I don't understand how you are claiming this is not a retinue? It perfectly fits the description of what is covered by the retinue rules in the BRB page 48.

If that is the case, then he may be picked out in CC, and the drones follow their rules for being able to take saves for the drone controller.

The drones don't have any special rules for taking saves for him they just form a unit with him so normal wound allocation applies.

I'm confused as to what you're trying to argue. All your questions have been answered and now you're agreeing with those who answered you, just in different wording.

This looks like nitpicking to me... Gwar answered your question in the first post, he didn't imply you can shoot at him separately, he said you can target him separately in a Multiple combat close combat scenario.

It gets pretty blurry as to if the Drones are wargear or additional models, so most people say both. They do NOT form a retinue unless it says they do. Just because they look like and act like a retinue in all respects does not mean they are.

Drones are there to take damage for their controller, that is their function.

This looks like nitpicking to me... Gwar answered your question in the first post, he didn't imply you can shoot at him separately, he said you can target him separately in a Multiple combat close combat scenario.

But it is not a multiple close combat you are fighting 1 unit.

They do NOT form a retinue unless it says they do.

Actually the retinue rules state that retinues are not always called retinues only that they are units purchased with the character that he must join and cannot leave...

Drones are there to take damage for their controller, that is their function.

That depends on the drone Marker drones certainly aren't. They still don't take wounds for their controller in any manner beyond normal wound allocation.

No where does it say he loses his IC status if he purhaces Drones.

Body guards and Retinues are not war gear, however the drones are wargear.

FlingitNow wrote:

This looks like nitpicking to me... Gwar answered your question in the first post, he didn't imply you can shoot at him separately, he said you can target him separately in a Multiple combat close combat scenario.

But it is not a multiple close combat you are fighting 1 unit.

I believe you need to revisit IC's and how they function in close combat. Once they enter close combat, they are infact a separate unit and can be targetted separately from the unit they have joined. This includes their "wargear/retinue".

They do NOT form a retinue unless it says they do.

Actually the retinue rules state that retinues are not always called retinues only that they are units purchased with the character that he must join and cannot leave...

Drones are there to take damage for their controller, that is their function.

That depends on the drone Marker drones certainly aren't. They still don't take wounds for their controller in any manner beyond normal wound allocation.

/nitpick. YOu can however, choose to put more punishing damage on the drones instead of the controller. The the whole purpose of SHIELD drones is to increase his survivability. Why you would take the other drones is beyond me. :-p

I believe you need to revisit IC's and how they function in close combat. Once they enter close combat, they are infact a separate unit and can be targetted separately from the unit they have joined. This includes their "wargear/retinue".

No if in a retinue the IC loses it's IC status and cannot be singled out. You should read those rules I know them well.

FlingitNow wrote:

I believe you need to revisit IC's and how they function in close combat. Once they enter close combat, they are infact a separate unit and can be targetted separately from the unit they have joined. This includes their "wargear/retinue".

No if in a retinue the IC loses it's IC status and cannot be singled out. You should read those rules I know them well.

Can an IC with a retinue join another unit? By your wording, there is no longer an IC, but it has its own unit, which means it cannot join any other units, along with its' retinue.

Wait a minute, why am I even arguing this? A commander with Drone wargear isn't even a retinue...

AffliKtion wrote:Wait a minute, why am I even arguing this? A commander with Drone wargear isn't even a retinue...

Actually, it is, kind of. The Reason he can join other units is because the Codex says he can. It's the same for Wolf Lords with Wolves. They form a Retinue.

But he's still a separate unit and can be targeted separately in close combat...

Unless the codex says that this isn't the case as well.

EDIT: He = his harem of drones.

AffliKtion wrote:But he's still a separate unit and can be targeted separately in close combat...

Unless the codex says that this isn't the case as well.

No, he isn't. The Drones form a Retinue and so he cannot be picked out, as per the rules for Retinues.

Where does it say they form a Retinue?

jbunny wrote:Where does it say they form a Retinue?

The rulebook. Reading it is beneficial when engaged in debates about the rules.

Gwar! wrote:

AffliKtion wrote:But he's still a separate unit and can be targeted separately in close combat...

Unless the codex says that this isn't the case as well.

No, he isn't. The Drones form a Retinue and so he cannot be picked out, as per the rules for Retinues.

Wait, wait. You're telling me, that if he purchases drones, a wargear option, and creates this said "retinue", and then joins a unit and goes into close combat, that his retinue cannot be picked out in close combat? Wacko Jacko.

I remember the retinue thing being discussed her ad nauseam a while back, Don't remember the outcome though.

Page number would be helpful. So your saying if you buy wargear you form a Retinue?

jbunny wrote:Page number would be helpful.

Is it so hard to, say, look up the chapter on characters, where the rules would clearly be? But, since you asked so nicely, Page 48, last paragraph.

AffliKtion wrote:Wait, wait. You're telling me, that if he purchases drones, a wargear option, and creates this said "retinue", and then joins a unit and goes into close combat, that his retinue cannot be picked out in close combat? Wacko Jacko.

No, the enemy unit can attack either:

Unit A) The Drones and IC
or
Unit B) The unit the Drones and IC are attached to.

They cannot pick out the IC on his own.

Also, you derogatory comments are unhelpful and I ask you to stop.

How about not being a jerk Gwar.

jbunny wrote:How about not being a jerk Gwar.

This coming from someone trying to twist the argument with comments like "So your saying if you buy wargear you form a Retinue?"

No, if you buy wargear, you don't automatically form a retinue.

However, if said wargear are other models who form a unit the IC cannot leave during the course of the game, then yes, they form a retinue.

Gwar! wrote:

jbunny wrote:Page number would be helpful.

Is it so hard to, say, look up the chapter on characters, where the rules would clearly be? But, since you asked so nicely, Page 48, last paragraph.

AffliKtion wrote:Wait, wait. You're telling me, that if he purchases drones, a wargear option, and creates this said "retinue", and then joins a unit and goes into close combat, that his retinue cannot be picked out in close combat? Wacko Jacko.

No, the enemy unit can attack either:

Unit A) The Drones and IC
or
Unit B) The unit the Drones and IC are attached to.

They cannot pick out the IC on his own.

Also, you derogatory comments are unhelpful and I ask you to stop.

Ahh, were arguing the same point then, I was just not being clear on him = retinue.


Is the derogatory thing aimed at me? Wacko jacko was meant for the rules if it was true, not aimed at you. :-p

AffliKtion wrote:Ahh, were arguing the same point then, I was just not being clear on him = retinue.


Is the derogatory thing aimed at me? Wacko jacko was meant for the rules if it was true, not aimed at you. :-p

Ah I See. Yay for Miss. Communication, that biznitch!

No, the enemy unit can attack either:

Unit A) The Drones and IC
or
Unit B) The unit the Drones and IC are attached to.

This is the part you lose me. Why can they attack the retinue seperately? What rules are you using that govern that?

pg 48 states you can attack only an IC seperately but there is no IC here. As the retinue has joined another unit they are now just one big unit so what rules are you using to attack the retinue separately?

Pg 31 of the Tau codex states that drones with an IC form a unit.

About wargear; the drone controller is wargear, the drones themselves are models, they count for moral checks just like other models in a unit.

A. When selecting your army, if you buy a Tau
character without a Bodyguard, he (and his
drones) may join/leave units as a normal
independent character. In combat, the character
(and his drones) count as a separate unit.
If, when selecting your army, you buy a Bodyguard
for a Tau character, the Bodyguard and the
character (and his drones) must be fielded as a
unit, as described for Retinues on page 48 of the
Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. In this case, the
character (and his drones) cannot leave the
Bodyguard unit. The character (and his drones)
are members of the unit in all respects. Only if the
entire Bodyguard is destroyed, the character
returns to being an independent character, as
described above.

My Words: If the commander and his drones form a unit then join another unit, then in close combat the Commander and his drones can be targeted per the rules for IC's.

jbunny wrote:My Words: If the commander and his drones form a unit then join another unit, then in close combat the Commander and his drones can be targeted per the rules for IC's.

Yes, you can choose to attack either the IC+Drones unit or the unit he is attached to.

Hey we agree.