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If a multiple wound character has say...3 wounds... and is fighting 10 genestealers. Now is he subject to moral tests. if he recieves a wound. meaning 1/3 of his wounds is gone. I ask this because lots of SM characters have "combat tactics" where you can choose to fail a test if you wish. Meaning one could recieve a wound choose to fail fall out of combat autoregroup from Know no fear then open fire, recharge gain a bonus attack?

Resolving CC's follows wounds allocated correct? So If i recieve 2 wounds on my guy (leaving me with 1) and I kill 1 of theirs. thats two wounds on me and 1 on then so I would "lose the combat" thus making me subject to a test.

Yep as far as i know it still counts as an unsaved wound and counts towards combat results.

No, as moral tests are when 25% of the *models* in a unit are removed.

However in Close Combat you do not take checks for 25% casualties, you instead make a "break" test once you work out who has won combat.

And while they can choose to fail this test, the I6 stealers will likely catch them, causing No Retreat wounds (ok, max of two)

Remember: ATSKNF is NOT AN AUTOREGROUP - you auto *pass* the test, however you are still barred from making the test if, as is likely, the genestealers are still within 6" after they make their consolidation move.

The Morale test for losing an assault is based off the number of wounds caused, not casualties, so yes, you would have lost the combat by one and would have had to take a morale test.

nosferatu1001 wrote:No, as moral tests are when 25% of the *models* in a unit are removed.

However in Close Combat you do not take checks for 25% casualties, you instead make a "break" test once you work out who has won combat.

And while they can choose to fail this test, the I6 stealers will likely catch them, causing No Retreat wounds (ok, max of two)

Remember: ATSKNF is NOT AN AUTOREGROUP - you auto *pass* the test, however you are still barred from making the test if, as is likely, the genestealers are still within 6" after they make their consolidation move.

I know that you don't check after 25% as that if for shooting phase. But I do see my confusion in my original post. I thought the "break" test was simply a moral test. I suppose i willl have to double check in the rule book before I can take this question any further.

As for the "autoregroup" I realize it is not, but since I can auto pass my moral test that was the reference. I'll get back to this thread i just gotta do a little homework real fast.

Imperial Fist wrote: I thought the "break" test was simply a moral test.

It is. The trigger is different, that's all.

Ordinarily, you take a morale test whenever you suffer 25% casualties in a phase. This test is ignored whilst locked in combat.

The test for losing a combat is also a morale test, but is taken for losing the combat, with a modifier for how many casualties you lost by. The percentage of the total unit made up by these casualties has no effect on it.

You can auto pass the test, but only if you are allowed to make the test - something a lot of SM players seem to forget.

See: "shepherding those TH/SS terminators of the board with a rhino just behind them"

That's what I was getting at. If you need to take the test it really is up to the SM because he can pass or fail it by choice. But I realize by falling back you are exposed to the risk of a sweeping advance (which I hadn't realized prior to making the post). I'm just trying to figure out best ways to utilize he ATSKNF and also combat tactics (choose to fail a morale test).

Imperial Fist wrote:If you need to take the test it really is up to the SM because he can pass or fail it by choice.

Only if Pappa Smurf(Marneus Calgar) is on the field. They can choose to fail or roll the test (With whatever -LD modifier)

Imperial Fist wrote:That's what I was getting at. If you need to take the test it really is up to the SM because he can pass or fail it by choice. But I realize by falling back you are exposed to the risk of a sweeping advance (which I hadn't realized prior to making the post). I'm just trying to figure out best ways to utilize he ATSKNF and also combat tactics (choose to fail a morale test).

Well, they can choose to fail - not pass. They can only choose to pass if they have Marneus with them. And if they choose to pass they still trigger No Retreat!

Getting caught by SA triggers No Retreat!, which is unlikely to be a bad thing for the SM - however in most cases they are best to try to pass the test. CT is best used when being shot, so you can fall back, out of range of their assault, auto-regroup and pile in on your turn.

I am not sure that if you use marneus to pass a morale test for lost combat that you suffer no retreat. Wouldn't it be just like taking the test and passing ? Or is there some special rule in the codex about that.

"Taking the test" is defined in the rulebook as rolling dice and comparing to your leadership value.

Have you rolled dice? No. Therefore you have passed the test automatically and suffer No Retreat!

Russ's left testicle, not this again!

-Runs and hides under his bridge-

Yeah, I was just thiknking that.

Although it was his right testicle

hhm seems like this is an old issue, I cant buy into that logic however

There are two schools of thought on the Marneus issue:
1: Since no dice are rolled, it's an automatic pass, and so you suffer No Retreat wounds.
or
2: Since you choose whether to pass or fail, it's not an automatic pass, and so you do not suffer No Retreat wounds.

It's been debated to death, so let's not start it up again here. Sort it out with your opponent before the game.

yup yup, my bad

insaniak wrote:There are two schools of thought on the Marneus issue:
1: Since no dice are rolled, it's an automatic pass, and so you suffer No Retreat wounds.
or
2: Since you choose whether to pass or fail, it's not an automatic pass, and so you do not suffer No Retreat wounds.

It's been debated to death, so let's not start it up again here. Sort it out with your opponent before the game.

The issue even more so breaks down to, where each group has the yard stick for determining automatic passing:

1) You see if it's automatic before the choice is made, thus failure is an option and god of war does not qualify as automatically passing.

2) You see if it's automatic after the choice is made, there is no possibility for failure so god of war does qualify as automatically passing.

No more correct than what you said, but it does seem to be the base cause of the disagreement between the two schools of thought.

And 1) ignores the Combat Tactics section, which defines choosing to fail as an automatic fail. Choosing not to fail is still automatic.

But better not start this up again...

no.

it states one third of the squad

as far as I'm concerned, it's a single model, losing one wound means there is still one model.

therefore, you can't claim morale check..

Captain Solon wrote:no.

it states one third of the squad

as far as I'm concerned, it's a single model, losing one wound means there is still one model.

therefore, you can't claim morale check..

Wat :O :O

Even if you lose 1 wound, and didn't remove any wounds from the other side, you lost the combat and must take a morale check (unless overridden by other rules)

Captain Solon wrote:no.

it states one third of the squad

as far as I'm concerned, it's a single model, losing one wound means there is still one model.

therefore, you can't claim morale check..

Actually, it states 25% of the unit, and that is the morale check from shooting - which is entirely different to the morale check you take from losing combat.

I have no idea where Solon gets any of his/her rules from.