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I'm going up against a friend of mine who plays Orks fairly soon, and he uses trukks for all his infantry squads. I intend to take a sorceror with Lash of Submission, and I'm just wondering: Am I allowed to (assuming I can see the squad of Orks on the back of the Trukk) use Lash of Submission on them and force them to disembark?

I'm pretty sure putting something onto the truck model is purely aesthetic, and does not change the rules for transports in any way.

There's nothing to indicate that you are allowed to do so.

No, you cannot (normally) target embarked units with psychic powers. The power would explicitly have to tell you so in order to target an embarked unit.

There (I think) is something that farseers can do to embarked units, but I may be getting that backward.

Farseer's can target themselves and the unit they are with if they are inside a transport. Don't think they can do anything else directly to embarked units.

Ah, that's what I was referring to. Thanks number9dream.

Ah well, it was worth a try. Thanks for the help.

For reference sake, the Transport rules on page 66 of the rulebook (under 'Embarking') state that models embarking on a vehicle are removed from the table.

Nothing changes this for open-topped vehicles.

Well according to the newest INAT you can affect models embarked on transports.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Well according to the newest INAT you can affect models embarked on transports.

With an incredibly small number of effects being discussed to death in these very forums.

Lash is not one of them, as far as I know.

True. But if you allow one you need to change them all for consistency.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:True. But if you allow one you need to change them all for consistency.

"Them all" being an extremely small subset that does not include 99% of effects (or Lash).
There are specific rules for targeting, psychic powers, shooting, and so on that prevent it in almost all cases.

As lash is considered a shooting attack you must have LOS to the unit in question. All you see is the transport, then that is where the line falls. Power fails, moving on.

The only two Chaos psychic powers that you can really argue for affecting hostile units in transports is Nurgle's Rot and Gift of Chaos, and for those two you have to construct a way of measuring to the individual embarked models. You could work something out, but you'd have to invent rules for measuring to the individual models in order to get around the psychic power FAQ entry.

Lash isn't going to work because the unit has to be visible to the psyker, so the unit can't be targeted.

Boss GreenNutz wrote:Well according to the newest INAT you can affect models embarked on transports.

If you are playing with the INAT, shooting attacks (per the INAT ruling) and psychic powers (per the GW ruling) cannot be used on embarked models (unless the psyker is also embarked on the transport).

However per the rules, any other kind of effect theoretically can indeed affect embarked units as described in the rules for embarked models, with Spirit Leech being one of those things unless GW changes the rule via their FAQ.


But Lash is indeed both a psychic power and a shooting attack (a psychic shooting attack). Therefore it may not be used against embarked units.

Yep fair enough. Thanks.

If the trukks are open topped can the models be targeted????

This is interesting because it was used against my open topped trukk in a recent battle to targeted my beloved Nob retinue and I let it slide because the model could draw LoS..

No, they CANNOT be targetted.
Lash is a shooting attack, so cannot affect an embarked unit.

No....they cannot be targeted in an open-topped vehicle.

As an aside, does that mean that farseers embarked in a vehicle can't cast powers on other vehicles and units? Is he allowed to cast from inside the vehicle onto his own unit and vehicle?

He can cast out of the vehicle, assuming that is isnt a shooting power, as this requires a fire point - something eldar lack.

He can cast inside the vehicle on his own unit.

Mothertrucker killed my boss with it..

At least next time he tries it I will stand tall and then smash his pitiful sorceror with a hammer...

Solly wrote:Mothertrucker killed my boss with it..

At least next time he tries it I will stand tall and then smash his pitiful sorceror with a hammer...

Yeah even though it's open topped and most ork players I have seen get a giggle out of putting orks in the back, they are still embarked and you can't draw LoS to them/target with a Psychic power.

nosferatu1001 wrote:He can cast out of the vehicle, assuming that is isnt a shooting power, as this requires a fire point - something eldar lack.

He can cast inside the vehicle on his own unit.

Eldar powers explicitly don't require line of sight except for the ones that function as psychic shooting attacks (mind war, eldritch storm.) Fortune, guide, and doom should all be usable on other units while the farseer is embarked (provided those units are within the required distance of the hull.)

I've just realised that I've been playing incorrectly since, well, forever based on this.....

All those deaths due to open topped vehicles,
heck I've even allowed this to happen in tournies and no-ones ever said this before!!

Damn chaos and all it's machinations!!!

And this is why real men don't use lash.

1 - Pop trukk
2 - Lash orks into a ball
3 - Profit!

- Lash truck into a ball
- Pop orks
-

Where in God's name does this "It's an opened topped transport, so I can target the passengers" idea keep coming from?

solkan wrote:Where in God's name does this "It's an opened topped transport, so I can target the passengers" idea keep coming from?

Probably because GW didn't write anything explicit in the 5th edition rulebook saying that you can't target an embarked unit...and following the concept of true line of sight many players probably assume that if a vehicle is open-topped then theoretically those models should still be visible and therefore may be shot at.

In their next set of rules, or via a FAQ/errata GW should really include a rule that says:

'embarked units never suffer hits/wounds, and will never fall back unless specified otherwise.'


Although honestly, I think a rule that allowed embarked units in an open-topped vehicle to be fired at (but with a normal '4+' cover save for being partially protected by the vehicle) would make 'sense' to me...of course they'd then have to clarify whether embarked units could go to ground and/or fallback out of their vehicles due to a failed morale check, but they could cover that without too much extra work IMHO.



But enough of my tangent, my whole point was that there are no explicit rules prohibiting shooting at embarked units besides the usual requirement of needing LOS to the models (which some shooting doesn't require), so I think it is natural that people keep coming back to this question.

Damn GW!!
Damn them all to the fourth level of hell,
where the unkindness tears their souls and rends their imaginations!!

It makes for a more exciting game on the table top though so I think we would keep this open in the game club but when I get into my next tournie that's gonna change..

Thanks for the clarification guys..
This is generally the best site for these types of questions so cheers!!
I never get a straight answer form GW and hate the fact that we have to watch out for FaQ downloads to amend the rules..