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So I came up with a nifty skimmer stand that allows you to adjust the hight when ever you want. The first reason I made it was to display my DE raiders on different planes for a nice artsy photo, but then I got to thinking how fluffy it would be to increase the hight and float over terrain, then decrease it when I drop troops off.


While I know there is a sentence in the rule book about modeling for advantage is this a violation of it? I find it a rather ambiguous term since changing height is both a hindrance and a blessing. Either way I am keeping the stands, and if the opponent wants to make a big deal of it I have a stock GW one laying around.


On a side note would you buy these stands?

No.

Id would depend. If you set them at a normal height for shooting and getting shot at then whatever, you want a cool stand to float over terrain be my guest.

However I would refuse to play if you did the following. Park raider behind building, raise up on stand, shoot, lower back down.

So I came up with a nifty skimmer stand that allows you to adjust the hight when ever you want. The first reason I made it was to display my DE raiders on different planes for a nice artsy photo, but then I got to thinking how fluffy it would be to increase the hight and float over terrain, then decrease it when I drop troops off.


While I know there is a sentence in the rule book about modeling for advantage is this a violation of it? I find it a rather ambiguous term since changing height is both a hindrance and a blessing. Either way I am keeping the stands, and if the opponent wants to make a big deal of it I have a stock GW one laying around.


On a side note would you buy these stands?

There is no rule in the rulebook against modeling for advantage, nor is there a rule allowing it either. There is a rule requiring you to use the base the miniature was supplied with however.


Changing a miniatures height in game would be horribly abusive if only one player has access to this ability not granted by the rules. When you say "since changing height is both a hindrance and a blessing" you clearly intend on not changing its height whenever you feel like it but rather it sounds like you'd be holding yourself to only changing its height when you move the model...which is certainly a noble ideal, but since you're in the land of playing with your own rules at that point what's to stop you from changing its height right when your opponent wants to shoot at it?

In short, changing the shape, size or height of your models during the game is not something allowed by the rules and has no place in the game as written. If you want to come up with rules incorporating it that's fine, but your opponent should be entirely on board with the idea.

Changing bases midgame is not allowed. Page 3 says models must be glued to the base which would prevent swapping out skimmer bases with multiple heights.

You live by the sword, you die by the sword. If you choose a high/long flying stem, you have better visibility, but are more easily seen. If you choose a lower one, you block LOS to troops behind you and can hide easier, but are lower and probably can't get clear LOS as much.

Being up high to see over terrain turn 1-2 and then being low tot he ground to preserve your model from blowing up turns 5-6 is abuse. Your variable length stem isn't the base it was provided with which means it requires opponent's permission, and changing height midgame would be abusive and the opponent would call you on it.

I have heard the telescopic skimmer/flying base and seen it in practice and it doesn't take a genius to discover the clear in-game advantages to it. For the most part, I don't care what your height is as long as it is a static thing from turn 1 to turn 6.

nkelsch wrote:

I have heard the telescopic skimmer/flying base and seen it in practice and it doesn't take a genius to discover the clear in-game advantages to it. For the most part, I don't care what your height is as long as it is a static thing from turn 1 to turn 6.

I wouldnt mind if it had like 2 exact settings. And when he moves it it goes up, and then comes back down at the end. But for both shooting and being shot at it must stay at the same height the whole game.

I think most people won't care what is between the model and the base as long as for game mechanics the height is constant.

If the base is capable of variable height, just make sure to keep it static for the duration of the game... Probably the lowest level as I have seen telescopic bases and they are usually pretty long when all smooshed up.

Pg 3 only states it has to be glued to the base provided.

So hypotheticly if I wanted to be TFG I could just glue my telescopic shaft onto the GW flying base, and use it as I like.



ROFL, Well I know what I am going to do next time I face super RAW TFG.

Clthomps wrote:Pg 3 only states it has to be glued to the base provided.

So hypotheticly if I wanted to be TFG I could just glue my telescopic shaft onto the GW flying base, and use it as I like.



ROFL, Well I know what I am going to do next time I face super RAW TFG.

No, the skimmer base consists of the base and the peg. So using a non-standard peg means you are not using the base provided with the model which means you need opponent's permission.

Preemptively calling someone TFG doesn't make them so, and you are the one who is modeling for an advantage and knows it is a clear advantage...

Did you genuinely want an answer, or are you just wanting to call anyone who disagrees with you names? Even if it didn't require RAW thumping to show it is wrong... it is clearly unfair and changes the game to include rules that the game was not designed for or balanced for with points. You would be getting an advantage which you did not pay for and would be hurting the integrity of the game the same way Crab-belly carnifexes, Crouching Wraithlords and Foxhole I guard do. This thing would be no different and you would "become" TFG simply by putting the model on the table.

If you claim that there is nothing 'illegal' with your base and changing mid game is fine, then realize people don't need a rule from the rulebook to not play you and go elsewhere. Also TO's don't need a rule to disqualify you and your models either. They can do pretty much anything they want in thier own tourney.

So no. No changing heights mid game.

Clthomps wrote:ROFL, Well I know what I am going to do next time I face super RAW TFG.

Try to play a model with a telescoping flight stem, only to have him point out that there is no rule allowing you to add such a thing to your models...?

Couldn't that just be countered by pointing out were it says to glue it to the provided base.

Isn't that the argument for the tools that glue all there marines face down?

'Must be glued to their base' and 'Must be glued to their base but may have a telescoping rod added in between' are not the same thing...


To be clear, here, I'm not suggesting that conversions shouldn't be allowed. But 'It doesn't say I can't' is a poor basis for any argument... more so if you're intending to use it as a counter for perceived beardiness.

Clthomps wrote:Couldn't that just be countered by pointing out were it says to glue it to the provided base.

Isn't that the argument for the tools that glue all there marines face down?

Except for all the materials provided in the game showing you how to properly base your models.

I mean ultimately what is the real-world point of you continuing to argue at this point? You asked a question and it has an answer. It seems kind of silly (IMHO) to play devil's advocate about something that will never happen in real life.

On a side note has anyone run into a TFG with all there models glued flat?

I saw one a couple of months ago that did it with genestealers and hormaguants.... What a tool.

heard of it, never seen it. I dont think that guy would last at my LGS, with or without models glued face down. Hed just get stomped, and then nobody would play against him.

I guess the logical conclusion is this. If you want a telescoping base for cool movement, go for it. But it should sit at a reasonable height for shooting. And must remain at the same height both when giving and receiving shots.

I can think of a base with two settings, high and low. Move it up to high, move the model, scoot back to low. Shoot at low, and stay their during enemies shooting phase. But as has been said dont move at high, shoot at high, and then drop to low.

Clthomps wrote:On a side note has anyone run into a TFG with all there models glued flat?

Never. And I've been playing since 1994.

I've also never encountered the 'infamous' kneeling Wraithlord, despite predictions for the last 15 years no that they would be just everywhere as a consequence of the LOS rules (said prediction first encountered back in second edition, and every edition since...)

insaniak wrote:

I've also never encountered the 'infamous' kneeling Wraithlord,

I think there is a guy somewhere, and hes modeled like 10 of those, along with various carnifexs, and tanks, and what not. And he sock puppets all over the internet. Posting tales of this TFG who did this, posting pictures, claiming to be a whole legion of people.

I have played against one tau player with half the firewarriors in each squad kneeling. It looked awesome on his display board (think close order drill), and allowed him to do a weak fish of fury. Didn't annoy me the least tbh.

The FW box has a number of kneeling pose figures in it.

On a broader note, it is the rule to use TLoS which brings all these problems into the game. Many wargames use an abstract system so it doesn't matter if your models are standing up or lying down, etc.

I have seen the crouching wraithlord army, but not in 5th edition. It was a 3rd edition list at a GT.

The reason why it worked was abstract LOS allowed a model to block LOS to twice his height. So the Wraithguard models made inviso cones that could block LOS to a wrathlord if the wraithlord was modified to crouch a little. This means you could never shoot him but he could shoot you. Combine with 6 wrathlords and 9 war walkers, and the army was a monster. It was boardwiping people left and right as you couldn't legally target the models.

These armies are usually a side project of a guy doing it just so say he did. He knows reasonable people refuse to play so he will bring it to every tourney in hopes he can manipulate the TO into allowing it and if not, playing something else.

Just like how the OP said he would use standard flying bases if the opponent complained.

Currently the only things I see are shooty models that attempt to be very low in order maximize cover receiving cover but don't give cover. If the front unit is in 'foxholes' by being on lower bases, the front unit grants cover to the unit behind it, but the unit behind it can shoot over the unit in front of it with no cover given.

I’ve seen two kneeling Wraithlords, IIRC, over the last 11 years of regular competitive play. And one Tyranid army which had the monstrous creatures modeled to be belly-crawling. Most people have a sense of shame.

If I remember right the Tau skimmers are the only ones that can change their height. Which is either on a flying base or off a flying base.

Also it says you don't have to glue to a flying base as you have to remove the model from the base if possible when it's wrecked. Then the flight standless skimmer sits on the board like a normal wreck. If you can't remove it it just floats there and acts like wreck.

I'm lucky enough not to have met a modeling to advantage TFG yet. The closest I've gotten to any TFG was someone who seemed on the way to becoming one.

Also if they're laying flat on the base, RAW them back saying that they've gone to ground. If they weren't they'd be standing

When I played in the Ard Boyz finals last year I saw a guy prior to the first game arguing with the referee that his model with only a carnifex head on the base was okay. Unfortunately I had to play him the first round and he was a major tool.

G

If you read the rules for skimmers it states that the model is not allow to hover in mid-air or something like that after it's movement phase. That when the model is finished it's movement it considered on the ground for all intended purposes. I take this rule as meaning the flying bases are more for aesthetic reasons than how your are actually suppose use to rule for LOS and such.

Inquisitor Eisenhorn wrote:My lord, what foetid corner of the Imperium breeds these fawning idiots?

while i'm all for adding a cool stem like that to a base for display purposes, during the game i'd ask that you change the height to as close as possible to the original stem and leave it there for all practical purposes. if you wanted to take a batrep picture midgame and change the height for a better looking pic, feel free; for any ingame mechanic purposes, it should be relatively unchanged.

For game-play purposes, why not factor movement in height into horizontal movement in the same way as models moving in buildings do?

So a model moving 6" along and 6" up would move 12" in total.

I would not mind at all, with the following provision:

you may only adjust the height of the skimmer in your movement phase and only once per movement phase.

Shas'O Dorian:

I think it goes without saying that the height of the skimmer would only change during the movement phase. The emphasis on only changing once doesn't make much sense either as what matters is the height that the vehicle finishes the movement phase, because skimmers can move over intervening terrain that may vary in height, which is essentially the same as its base raising and lowering it.

Noob here for the acronym TFG and RAW...
Anyone wanna give me abrief explanation??? (",)