Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Thinking about 'founding' as SW Successor Chapter.

I haven't read everything regarding the Sons of Russ, but what all should I know before writing any fluff?

Could this work? As far as I know there just aren't any successor chapters talked about.

Any crazy ideas for when the successor chapter might have sprung up (for those well versed in SW history)?

Only one and they went insane.
besides the sw arent really a Chapter perse. thaere really still a legion.

The only successor chapter was the Wolfbrothers Chapter. They were brought about in the Second Founding and were completely annihilated. Leman Russ no like his puppies to go off alone.

If you think about it symbolically, SW successor chapters don;t make any sense.

Playing into the wolf analogy (which perhaps GW has overdone a tad) the chapter is a pack of wolves. The common notion is that wolves are strongest in a unified, large pack. Splitting Space Wolves off into successor chapters weakens the pack.

They have also had parts of the pack split off for long periods of time (Russ and the 13th company).

What would the best way to have a separate chapter from the Space Wolves adhering to Codex: Space Wolves? A chapter that decided to emulate the Space Wolves? A successor chapter? A chapter 'created' from Space Wolf geneseed, intended for a specific cause. A Space Wolf regiment lost to the warp that lost contact with the main body legion and became its own chapter?

I want to infringe on as little fluff as possible, while still having an army based on the wolves, but not the Actual Space wolves. Any ideas?

You could try reasoning that the SW's geneseed tithe began to take up too much shelf space over the years, and someone decided they should put it to some use.

Fluffwise, I'd say it's actually simple.

The Inquisition began to suspect that the Space Wolves gene-seed was corrupt (which they've suspected for a long time) and decided they needed proof. As the Space Wolves give nothing away to the Inquisition, a Deathwatch Space Wolf was selected to begin the training of new battle brothers from a world of his choosing. He would begin the Canis Helix however he pleased, but must report all findings back to the Inquisition.

In the end, it's quite possible. Plus, let's not forget how amazing the Deathwatch/Inquisition modelling could be for your Wolf Lord.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:Fluffwise, I'd say it's actually simple.

The Inquisition began to suspect that the Space Wolves gene-seed was corrupt (which they've suspected for a long time) and decided they needed proof. As the Space Wolves give nothing away to the Inquisition, a Deathwatch Space Wolf was selected to begin the training of new battle brothers from a world of his choosing. He would begin the Canis Helix however he pleased, but must report all findings back to the Inquisition.

In the end, it's quite possible. Plus, let's not forget how amazing the Deathwatch/Inquisition modelling could be for your Wolf Lord.

That idea could be interesting. The SW in question would have to be pretty disillusioned to be willing to split off like that. I'm thinking a Lone Wolf, volunteering to join the Deathwatch to feel like he's actually useful (there have to be some that don't think they can do their lost brothers justice on their own and don't want to merely surrender themselves to a pointless death).

The Inquisition could convince them to train a small group for specialist purposes, secretly. It would be a snap for the Inquisition to report to the SW that the marine died in battle so no fear of being missed. And the lone wolf in question could do it to feel like they have a pack again. I got the impression that they're pretty much separated from the main groups of SW anyway, one step above outcast.

Give you a chance to do some awesome fluff and even converting on your HQ, too. Maybe even Inquisitorial allies (not sure which though, since there are no books for Ordo Xenos. Probably just an Inquisitor, retinue, maybe some stormtroopers (they're the basic troops, aren't they?) and/or an assassin.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:Fluffwise, I'd say it's actually simple.

The Inquisition began to suspect that the Space Wolves gene-seed was corrupt (which they've suspected for a long time) and decided they needed proof. As the Space Wolves give nothing away to the Inquisition, a Deathwatch Space Wolf was selected to begin the training of new battle brothers from a world of his choosing. He would begin the Canis Helix however he pleased, but must report all findings back to the Inquisition.

In the end, it's quite possible. Plus, let's not forget how amazing the Deathwatch/Inquisition modelling could be for your Wolf Lord.

Glorious. I love it. This also would lead easily to how I was planning on them having less of the 'Norse' modeling (fur etc.) feel and instead have a cleaner 'sleeker?' look. Now I have to figure out a color scheme...

There's also the Dark Founding, http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Thirteenth_Founding where the Imperium has lost the data regarding the Chapters founded. It's possible they created a Space Wolves successor chapter where they had tried to stabilize the mutations and then lost it before they could gather any results. The chapter would still be out there and no one would have any idea as to there founding and purpose.

So, the SW never split off except that one chapter. Did they really lose all their marines except a few thousand to the Thousand Sons? I recall the Raven Guard lost something like 90 thousand marines at the drop site massacre.

ph34r wrote:So, the SW never split off except that one chapter. Did they really lose all their marines except a few thousand to the Thousand Sons? I recall the Raven Guard lost something like 90 thousand marines at the drop site massacre.

If I recall corecctly, the majority of the chaos fleet would have had to break through the space wolves lines during their retreat after the Horus Heresy. Its not a stretch to think that running the space wolves blockade would have taken a heavy toll on the space wolves legion.

The wolves were not a large legion and where only split once and Russ only did that because the emperor told him to.
There have been wolf lords that have renounced there fealty to the great wolf due to not liking him or a deep rivalry between two possible replacements for a deceased great wolf that is one reason for the black name stone on the stone thing I can't spell don't have the codex with me
and there is no reason you can't start a chapter that uses lions or tigers or bears oh my as a totem animal to replace the wolf

I vote the death watch idea.

So this is what I'm thinking;

Use the space wolf unit types, but basically the chapter is organized into Wolf Guard, Gray Hunters, and Long Fangs, plus vehicles.

The exposure to more inquisition causes there to be a higher affinity for rune priests (librarians // whatever I might decide to call them).

Every marine wears a deathwatch shoulder pad. Grey Hunters, the mainstay troops, all carry Bolter/Bolt Pistol/CCW. Model all the marines like sternguard/deathwatch marines. Give them all purity seals and bolters with sights (deathwatch/sternguard bolters). Every one of them should have a bolt pistol and a CCW modeled - I'm thinking a chapter issued sword (not a chainsword, but a nice clean single edge longsword type thing). Maybe modify the backpacks so there is a sheath for the sword as part of the backpack.

Servo skulls and other 'cool' imperial and inqusition symbols will adorn everything, purity seals everywhere if possible.

Perhaps I model my Rune Priests and other HQs AS Astartes Inquisitors in power armor (counts-as Rune Priets?).

To separate Wolf Guard from normal infantry, the will have a distinctive color scheme difference ~ maybe white instead of black, for example, to make them really stand out. Long fangs will have heavy weapons, which makes them fine for normal purposes. They get CCWs still, so the ritual 'swords' would still be carried.

I still want to maintain some of the wolf iconography, so I'm thinking that the chapter symbol will be a wolf's head of some sort, found on the right shoulder pad, with the deathwatch on the left. Squads are indicated by roman lettering on the knee.

Not sure the exact colors I want to use, but lots of black, maybe light blue like space wolf gray.

Units will have some place to record 'important' kills that they have scored. Significant enemy models that the unit kills will be painted on the side of their transport or maybe on their heavy weapons or a banner. (tiny renditions of Carnifexes, falcons, Monoliths, etc to show off what they have killed).

Another thing I was debating would be basing each squad differently; Each squad would be fairly heavy converted, so basing would be included in this: Each squad might be specialized in killing a particular type of xenos, and traces of that types remains would be found on the bases. (some tyranid bits/ a few ork weapons, a necron ribcage, etc. Per squad though, so it would be a way to tell them apart.)

Are there any suitably cool shoulder pads with blank space on them to go opposite the deathwatch pads? Maybe some of the SM command squad or chapter master pads?

Only one and they went insane.

They didnt go insane lol the Big Inquisition decided that they werent human enough and cleansed the world they also try to wipe out the SW's more then once huge engagements were fought. And the Obsidian Stone is for all the SW's who died, got lost, or recounted oaths. But as to successor chapters i play as the red wolves who are thought to be from the space wolves or the Iron hands (they look wolfy enough for me). But i have heard that the Emperors wolves (the Blood Disciples now) is a SW company that went to chaos and the same with the dark wolves. Ive always suspected the minotaurs to be of the SW's and the reason being they are fiercely loyal and headstrong mainly focusing on assaults ive also read that they do exhibit animalistic tendencies in combat they are also of the cursed founding they also beat the hell out of the Lamenters who are a BA successor and the only other chapter i can think of that does that in cc is the SW's (fits the SW bill if you ask me). But anything is doable the reason i think they dont list any names is cause i would think the SW's would think they are weak or rebels and not even see them as equals anymore or the SW's may not give names to protect them so the Inquisition doesnt go hunting them down. But your idea isnt bad and i think i could see it happening. As for the blank shoulder pads your best bet would be a bitz place or ebay.

^ I don't mean where can I actually procure the shoulder pads, I mean, what are some cool non-standard / inquisitorial pads I could stick on my marines?

Depends if your willing to pay this guy does some nice work from what ive seen on dakka not sure if hes still doing it his email is droppods@verizon.net

for what it looks like
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/223949.page

This one looks awesome to
http://chapterhousestudios.com/webshop/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=15&category_id=15&vmcchk=1

Those are just a few idea's but if you can sculpt then make your own.

If I recall correctly, the Space Wolves had one successor Chapter, the Wolf Brothers, but there was some kind of flaw in the geneseed that caused them to all spontaneously manifest the Wulfen curse and the chapter had to be disbanded. I think some of them fight for Chaos now but can't really remember the details.

Oh wow. Those are really cool.

What do people think about an army of

on the right shoulder

And Deathwatch pads on the left shoulder.

As cool as that shoulder pad is, I kind of wanted to put the chapter insignia on the right shoulder pad.


Also

in this picture:

Can anyone identify where that sheathed sword bit came from?

The sword bit?

That's not even hard!

Black Templar upgrade sprue.

^ Thanks! I think I might end up using quite a bit of BT and WH/DH bitz to spice things up.