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As far as I know, you have to declare before you fire (yes?)
As in, with a squad of say,
8 sergeant/troop with a bolter
1 with a plasma rifle
1 with heavy bolter.

He doesn't say anything before he fires and fires with his bolters, finding them out of range, he moves onto the heavy bolter.

I asked him to roll for 'gets hot' and he says he decided not to fire it.

I think thats premeasuring, isn't it?

Whats your thought.

It is not required to fire all of the weapons in a squad but you should state which weapons you are firing before you measure or roll for any of them. So before he rolled for the bolters he should have state whether or not he was also firing the plasma.

but the fact is he didn't say anything, so I assumed he chose to fire aeverything.

Isn't that a fair assumption, I'm sure if my models were .5" closer he would have fired the plasme.

Oh I agree with you 100%. He was cheating.

If you dont declare that members of your unit ARENT firing, they are assumed to be firing - it is only reasonable.

olympia wrote:Oh I agree with you 100%. He was cheating.

agreed

If you look at the "Which models can fire" heading on page 16 of the rulebook you will see that a player does not declare which models ARE firing, but rather which models AREN'T firing, so the RAW would actually support the idea that unless you say "model x is not firing" before checking range, then that model is assumed to be firing.

If the person was so adamant of the unit not firing, then Nobody has fired. It's either they all fired or nobody fired. Since he just set a presedence, next time he fires, you can say he didn't fire because he didn't declared that the unit was firing wich weapons. All he did was measure and roll dice. So he will have to next time say, I am firing 8 bolters. If he dosn't say hit did, then it didn't fire. Going by his rules you are.

What your sayin is right Solon but I take it this was a "friendly" game not a tournament or anything?

All you have to do is explain the rules to this guy and so the next time he doesn't do the same thing. If you sit there and try to force this guy to roll for Get's Hot the first time he did it, then you are on the path to becoming TFG

It's kind of a tricky case. I'm not going to say I'm not firing a Plasma Gun at when I'm shooting a Lascannon at an enemy Battlewagon 3 feet away, and wouldn't expect to have to roll for Gets Hot.

Seeing as he measured the Bolters, though, I'd say he declared firing for everything.

You should declare what you're fireing at and with what weapons before you fire.

Exact opposite - you are firing everything unless you state otherwise

I could be mistaken, but if his plasma was out of range does he have to check for "gets hot!" since the weapon can't be used? Don't really know the "gets hot!" rule since I play Tau and we don't use such barbaric weapons

Page 31 of the rulebook contains the rules for Gets Hot!....and your answer.

While you might not use plasma weapons, it is always smart to know how they work.

I think it's a pretty basic axiom of gaming that you declare what you're doing before you do it. It's poor form to not declare a unit's shooting before pulling out the tape measure and measuring.

I played a game recently against an enthusiastic young man who push his toy soldiers and tossed a lot of dice without declaring what he was doing. I asked him simply to please state the reason dice were being rolled before he did so as I am old and slow. What is obvious to the person rolling the dice is not obvious to me. I'm not a mind reader.

In a friendly setting I'd just gently request that for your sake that actions be declared before dice roll or tape measures come out to check ranges. You might also gently inform them that in a tournament setting such actions could cause their opponents heartburn.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:It's kind of a tricky case. I'm not going to say I'm not firing a Plasma Gun at when I'm shooting a Lascannon at an enemy Battlewagon 3 feet away, and wouldn't expect to have to roll for Gets Hot.

Seeing as he measured the Bolters, though, I'd say he declared firing for everything.

If you don't say either "The Plasma Gun isn't firing" or "The Lascannon is the only weapon firing" then you of course would have to roll for Gets Hot.

General_Chaos wrote:What your sayin is right Solon but I take it this was a "friendly" game not a tournament or anything?

All you have to do is explain the rules to this guy and so the next time he doesn't do the same thing. If you sit there and try to force this guy to roll for Get's Hot the first time he did it, then you are on the path to becoming TFG

Easy with the 'reasonable' there, General_Chaos. Much more of that and there wouldn't be any arguments around here at all and we wouldn't want that.

Steelmage99 wrote:Page 31 of the rulebook contains the rules for Gets Hot!....and your answer.

While you might not use plasma weapons, it is always smart to know how they work.

Thanks a million dude! Much more helpful than just a simple yes and no... I'll just hop on my bike for the 100km bike ride to my BRB and I'll have it cleared up...

If I have a unit of tac marines with a plasma gun and a las cannon, and there's a monolith right in front of me, I say "Firing las cannon at that", gesture towards the 'lith and roll one dice.

Cheating or not?

Pika_power wrote:If I have a unit of tac marines with a plasma gun and a las cannon, and there's a monolith right in front of me, I say "Firing las cannon at that", gesture towards the 'lith and roll one dice.

Cheating or not?

No.

@pika_power

That depends. If you miss or don't glance/pen do you then pick up a die and say "Firing plasma gun at that"?

I think the easiest way to go about it is to say "I'm going to fire everything but the plasma gun at the monolith. I'm not going to roll for my bolters since they can't do anything." While that looks a lot longer, it's only two sentences, it takes 5 - 10 secs to say that and avoid a whole lotta confusion. Of course if you said "I'm only going to fire my las cannon," then there should be no problem also.

Zatch, I would say that in this case that is excessive. If my opponent said I was risking offing one of my own troops to shoot at something it cant hurt instead of the logical weapon I would assume either they just wanted to get upset to be upset or were being sneaky about trying to get me disqualified.

@rocklord

I took the "right in front of me" to mean "extremely close", so I assumed all his weapons were in range. I can see how you interpreted it. If the 'lith was obviously out of range of the plasma gun and he said "firing las cannon at that" and then rolled the one die, then yeah, I'd have no problem with that. In fact, I have no problem with the way he stated it to begin with. It wouldn't bother me at all, but like I said, if he misses and then goes "firing plasma gun" then I have an issue.

zatchmo wrote:@pika_power

That depends. If you miss or don't glance/pen do you then pick up a die and say "Firing plasma gun at that"?

I think the easiest way to go about it is to say "I'm going to fire everything but the plasma gun at the monolith. I'm not going to roll for my bolters since they can't do anything." While that looks a lot longer, it's only two sentences, it takes 5 - 10 secs to say that and avoid a whole lotta confusion. Of course if you said "I'm only going to fire my las cannon," then there should be no problem also.

In truth, I'd probably gesture at the two units, say "lascannon" and roll one dice.

The plasma cannot hurt the AV14 Monolith. Everything is within six inches.

@pika

Ah, well in that case, sure, your sentence was fine as originally written. I had (erroneously) assumed that the plasma could hurt the 'lith. I would be ok with what you said in every capacity then.

Gorlack wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:Page 31 of the rulebook contains the rules for Gets Hot!....and your answer.

While you might not use plasma weapons, it is always smart to know how they work.

Thanks a million dude! Much more helpful than just a simple yes and no... I'll just hop on my bike for the 100km bike ride to my BRB and I'll have it cleared up...

You are welcome.

I am firmly in the "teach a man to fish..."-camp. Had you stated that you didn't have your rule book on hand, instead of implying that you couldn't be bothered to look it up (as your weapons don't Get Hot), my answer might have been different.

If you own it, you should have a legal backup of the book in PDF format. If you don't have a PDF of it, you should get one.

chaos, it was a friendly game, but on that same basis, shouldn't he not cheat?

I just think thats weaseling out of taking a 3/36 chance of dieing.

Captain Solon wrote:chaos, it was a friendly game, but on that same basis, shouldn't he not cheat?

I just think thats weaseling out of taking a 3/36 chance of dieing.

The question would be was he cheating, being forgetful, or did he not understand the rules?

Did happen more than once?

Did you explain the rules to him?

Did you ask him to roll for Get's Hot?

I wouldn't shoot a plasma gun @ a monolith, its only str 7