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Recently got a look at the friendly local tourney's comp system. Space Marines could get perfect comp in their sleep but I'm having trouble putting together a Guard army I'd be willing to play that loses less than 5 points. My usual 1750 list which would have had near perfect comp under the previous year's system now loses 11. Hooray. By comparison the typical Nob Biker army loses 3-8 comp points.

The system:

Ratio of troop selections to other individual selections

3:1 – 5 pts
2:1 to 2.9:1 – 4 pts
1:1 to 1.9:1 – 2 pts
less then 1:1 – 0 pts

Troop selections at maximum size (troops with a transport are considered to be at maximum size if at the maximum transport capacity of the transport).

50% or more – 5 pts
25% to 49.9% – 3 pts
Less than 25% – 0 pts

Percentage of points spent on vehicles (anything with an armor value)

20% or less – 5 pts
30% to 20.1% – 4 pts
40% to 30.1% – 2 pts
More than 40% – 0 pts

Number of power models in the army (a power model is one that has two or more of the following; three or more wounds, five or more str 6 or greater attacks that ignore saves on a charge, or is a unique named character, 225 pts or more).

Zero power models – 5 pts
No more than one power model per each full 1000 points of army size – 4 pts
More than one power model per 1000 points of army size – 0 points

Army List (army list must list each units war gear/upgrades along with costs, number of units per selection, total number of models, and a breakdown of points and choices by selection.

Army list was created on Army Builder or a spreadsheet, is accurate, and sufficient copies are provided for the tournament judge and all opponents – 5 pts
Army list was created on Army Builder or a spreadsheet, is accurate, but sufficient copies were not provided – 3 pts
Army list was not created using army builder or spreadsheet – 0 pts

Special characters

No special characters in the army / one squad upgrade special character – 5 pts
One special character in the army – 4 pts
One special character and one squad upgrade special character – 2 pts
More than two special characters of any type – 0 points

Model Count (divide the tournament army size (TAS) by 25 and 15)

If your model count is <= TAS divided by 25 – 5
If your model count is => TAS divided by 25 and <= TAS divided by 15 – 3
If your model count is > TAS divided by 15 – 0

Wow that comp seems really complex, and to be quite honest complete BS.

Here is my favorite comp system to date: (http://www.astronomi-con.com)

Comp out of 20.

Everyone starts at full, and subtracts points based on FOC slots used

1 HQ, 3 Troops, 1 Fast, 1 Elites, 1 Heavy can be taken with no penalty.

2nd HQ, 4th Troops, 2nd fast, 2nd elite, 2nd heavy all give -1.

5th & 6th Troops, 3rd fast, 3rd elite, 3rd heavy all give -2.

This discourages spamming and MSU, making for more balanced lists.

What happens if you just ignore comp completely and play whatever you want to play?

I'm never, ever (ever, ever, ever, ever) going to fill out a comp sheet, or pay any attention to one what so ever.

number9dream wrote:What happens if you just ignore comp completely and play whatever you want to play?

I'm never, ever (ever, ever, ever, ever) going to fill out a comp sheet, or pay any attention to one what so ever.

Comp points add to battle points to determine best general and best overall. Effectively start the tournament with a massive penalty to battle points. You could just play for fun, but you can do that for free any other night.

This only reinforces my decision to never play in any tournament. The Composition scores are all completely arbitrary based solely on some sense of right/wrong. Personally, if I play against someone that follows the force organization chart then I'm satisfied. This is the kind of claptrap that really sucks the fun and the life out of a game.

That is the most idiotic comp system I have ever seen.

Tell the people running the tournament that 40k is actually pretty well balanced and that's why no one uses comp anymore. (except those weird australians :p )

But seriously, that system is so bias against certain armies. I would just completely ignore it and try and make up the points you lose in your battle points.

Dracos wrote:
1 HQ, 3 Troops, 1 Fast, 1 Elites, 1 Heavy can be taken with no penalty.

2nd HQ, 4th Troops, 2nd fast, 2nd elite, 2nd heavy all give -1.

5th & 6th Troops, 3rd fast, 3rd elite, 3rd heavy all give -2.

It also would seem to penalize the less-expensive options. Can I really afford to bring a unit of rippers? They're only 90 points at max size, maybe 126 if I give them an upgrade. Armies that can choose useful vehicles as dedicated transports clearly win here (ahem, LRs). Also, armies that can put multiple models into a single heavy FOC slot would seem to be favored; a single daemon army daemon prince or soul grinder won't last long, but a squadron of IG tanks could...

Comp is inherently flawed. I understand why it's used, and why it changes all the time - it's basically a bat to hit whichever current build is the most irritating with, and without it too many people would just jump on those ridiculous-build bandwagons. (Without comp scores, how many more people do you think would've been fielding nob bikers a couple of years ago just because they were "unbeatable"? Whereas now people have found ways for dealing with them, so now it's less important to penalize them.) That said, I'm glad I've never played a single game where comp was seriously considered.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW, for the original system: looking at it as a daemon player, my thoughts were:
Max size? Who fields max sized horrors, bloodletters, daemonettes, or plaguebearers? Their DS footprint would be huge, practically guaranteeing mishap, and they'd be all my points. Also, I'm being penalized for having overpriced HQ and heavys not only by having to pay for them, but by losing comp?

I don't much like the original. The FOC points system isn't bad, but extra Troops shouldn't be penalized:

10 pts base
-2 for 2nd HQ.
-1 per extra Elite, Fast or Heavy
-2 for min Troops

Gives a score from 0 to 10, and is easy to calculate and check.

You know what is even easier to calculate and check?
No comp at all. Follow the FoC and play.

As a Guard player I'd be better off if the comp system simply consisted of deducting 1d6 battle points from the scores of everyone who didn't bring Space Marines.

1.Ratio of troop selections to other individual selections
This one's close to reasonable, but it hurts Tau, Necrons, anyone who doesn't have powerful and versatile troops.

2.Troop selections at maximum size
Doesn't affect me at all. This hurts Tyranids, Tau, Necrons, Daemons, some others. Space marines already have built-in incentives to make full size troops units. Daemon and Necron troops are expensive and have max squad sizes of 20. Ouch.

3.Percentage of points spent on vehicles
Hurts Guard, Eldar, Tau. Note that Space Marines conveniently are expensive enough compared to Rhinos that you can easily run fully mechanized Marines without getting dinged on this.

4.Number of power models in the army
Doesn't affect my army. Aside from special characters this mostly matters for Tyranids. If you bring a Hive Tyrant and a Carnifex in less than 2000 points you're running an abusive gimmick army and lose 5 points. As long as a Marine player avoids special characters or dreadnoughts he doesn't have to worry about this. It's almost as as if the rules were tailor written so that SM Captains and Chaos Lords would avoid being power models even if they were equipped with power fists.

5.no comment

6.Special characters
Doesn't affect me, pretty common rule. Does affect a number of armies that only work because of special characters. Leave Creed and Kell at home for this one.

7.Model Count
Completely hoses my army. Also affects certain kinds of Ork, Tyranid, and various other armies. To get full points at 1750 one can only have 70 models. Guess which armies can do this easily. Organizer has stated that the composition rules are intentionally biased against horde armies. They're also intentionally biased against massed armor.

number9dream wrote:You know what is even easier to calculate and check?
No comp at all. Follow the FoC and play.

Even easier? Don't bother playing.

Fair enough, I'm guessing your point is that I shouldn't get too upset about how someone chooses to play the game?

You are, of course correct. I do still find comp annoying as all hell - it's basically saying that no, playing by the rules provided isn't enough, you have to play by MY (my being the organizer) rules.

But yes, you are right, I won't be playing there so it doesn't really concern me. It did make me somewhat sad, however, when I looked at the comp sheet you had to submit for a Swedish tournament. I wanted to stab myself in the eye after about 5 minutes and decided I'm not gonna play that particular tournament, ever.

@number9dream: Come play in Norway, no comp in 40k tournaments over here

number9dream wrote:Fair enough, I'm guessing your point is that I shouldn't get too upset about how someone chooses to play the game?

Exactly. Vote with your feet and your wallet. If you don't like the way they run the event, don't support it. Or find an alternative event. If enough people feel the same, then things will change.

There's room for comp, no-comp, and every kind of variation. Play what you like, not what you don't!

JohnHwangDD wrote:

number9dream wrote:Fair enough, I'm guessing your point is that I shouldn't get too upset about how someone chooses to play the game?

Exactly. Vote with your feet and your wallet. If you don't like the way they run the event, don't support it. Or find an alternative event. If enough people feel the same, then things will change.

There's room for comp, no-comp, and every kind of variation. Play what you like, not what you don't!

This is the advice I give people that are thinking about playing. Its really the best way to play this game.

Ive never gone to a tourny, but Ive got to say, Ive heard about the comp thing many times, and it just sounds stupid. I think if you are going to a tourny, your going to kick ass and take names. Tournies are for players that really think they have what it takes to beat everyone else. And loosing a tourny because you had to many elites? Thats just mind bogglingly dumb

I don't attend tourneys without comp or painting requirements. If that makes me a pussy, so be it. However, the comp score posted by the OP is ridiculous and convoluted. Actually deducting points because someone didn't use Army Builder? Seriously?