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new to 40k

I see some 1000 point army lists with Land Raiders. At 1000 points, isn't the proportion of total points a land raider takes too much, leaving you with too few points for other troops?

Isn't it better, at 1000 points, to have a higher unit count army capable of more diversified weapons/tactics better than a huge point like a land raider?

Again, new and just trying to understand land raiders in low point games

Well they're good in low point games, as not many people will have much to take them out. Put when taking up around a quarter of your points, that's not leaving a lot after you compulsory choices. So unless you fancy risking only the 2 troops choices and a HQ with some deicated transports with a Land Raider to soak up fire. Then leave it for 1500+ points =D

Then you can afford the squad of Sternguard and Lysander to stick in it. =P

All about trial and error =D

Oshova

Unless you play GK then you have a good reason.


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Vindicator#9 wrote:Welcome to dak dak BTW¡

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I only play Land Raiders under these conditions:

1. The game is at least 3000 points.
2. I've spent all of my Heavy Support choices.
3. I happen to have Terminators in need of a ride.

Land Raiders, IMHO, are way too expensive to take, especially in your average 1850 point game, let alone any game with less points. The amount of things you can do with 250+ points to improve any list severely outweigh the benefits any Land Raider can give you.

However, if you do find yourself using one, in ANY situation of ANY list, ALWAYS have something at least riding in it, to make use of it's transport capabilities.

Hope that helps!

I use them in 1500 and higher lists as a transport for my assault terminators. Nothing like riding up 12 inches and letting them bash up tanks.
At lower point games, it is better to take lower point tanks like a Vindicator or Predator. I would never personally play a Land Raider in an under a 1500 pt game.

Yes, I agree, the LR is very costly. I don't even own a land raider for my 4k+ SPM army. Possibly I'll look into building/buying a LR when I'm done modding my assault termies. They synergy very good with LRers.

From the other side of a table, I still cannot keep a cool head when facing a LR. I believe I got badly beaten by the old LR model when I was about 12 years old, and it stuck :-) I'm scared of them, completely out of proportions as to what damage they can do. It's a huge model and it's got a bad rep. That effect can be useful, but don't count on it. Only bring the LR if you have a good plan for it.

I wouldn't touch it unless your in the 1500+ range. Though, at a local 1k tourney, some player ran 2 Land Raiders...I don't think he won much...

Rurouni Benshin wrote:I only play Land Raiders under these conditions:

1. The game is at least 3000 points.
2. I've spent all of my Heavy Support choices.
3. I happen to have Terminators in need of a ride.

Land Raiders, IMHO, are way too expensive to take, especially in your average 1850 point game, let alone any game with less points. The amount of things you can do with 250+ points to improve any list severely outweigh the benefits any Land Raider can give you.

However, if you do find yourself using one, in ANY situation of ANY list, ALWAYS have something at least riding in it, to make use of it's transport capabilities.

Hope that helps!

I definitely agree. My Wolves have yet to take a LR in any list, the highest being 1500 so far. The main reason being I've probably filled those points with GHs, Long Fangs and Wolf Guard

InfernalMajesty wrote:I wouldn't touch it unless your in the 1500+ range. Though, at a local 1k tourney, some player ran 2 Land Raiders...I don't think he won much...

That sounds dreadful.
See, the reason you never want to take such an expensive unit at such a low point (1K or lower) is because one lucky shot and there goes a fourth of your army.
Even at 1500 I only run it if I have Terminators riding in it. Otherwise, you loose a good chunk for something that might have just been terrible. That's the reasoning my friend has for running a non mechanized IG list, and why I make sure that either the Land Raider isn't the only tank I run or that I have a good plan.

In my first 40k game I played against a mate of mines entire dark eldar army (around 2000 points with 3 dark lances) - i had two land raiders with a few upgrades yet i managed to last 10 turns before kicking the bucket.

Landraiders rock

Please don't get the wrong idea though. I'm not saying LR's are useless. They're just not meant to be played in every game. Space Marine units tend to be more expensive than other armies in 40K. Therefore, I think it's prudent to get as much as you can out of all of your points. Generally speaking, you want to get as many shots possible out of your units, and give your opponents as many different targets possible.

I recently made a 1850 list, with a Land Raider Godhammer as a DT for some Terminators. I redid the list without it, and ended up with 2 more Heavy Support choices (1 Vindicator and 1 Predator), and another half of a Troop choice (which ended up being full, after I was able to strip a few more upgrades off other units). I went 1-1-1 in a Tournament with that list, which evidently was good enough for 3rd place overall.

Since then, I've lost twice out of 9 games with it. Now I'm pretty sure if I had kept the original list, I wouldn't have done nearly as well as I have.

Every time I take a Land Raider it acts as a magnet for lascannons, Bolters, and whatever else people can shoot at it... Usually they get TKO'd on turn 2 or 3 and only half the time giving me the chance to deliver it's passengers. Most of my games being 1500 points, I'm starting to look at what else I can take for the same points.

Do people really fire S4 weaponry at your AV14 armor?

Although, I will say this: having played against Orks with a list that ran a LRC (Running 7 Wolf Guard and Njal inside) they can be very, very effective if your opponent lacks the high strength weaponry to take them down. Now if only it hadn't run into difficult terrain and immobilized itself the first turn of the game...*grumble*

I've played someone, in a tourny no less, who spent then entire game emptying hellguns and bolters into my Chimera's FA.
Suffice it to say he lost horribly (although he still managed to go 1:0:2 overall, which says something about other people in that tourny)

Landraiders in low-point games are an "all your eggs in one basket" sort of gamble. The player with the LR is banking on his opponent lacking the strength to knock it out, at the risk of losing 1/4 of his list to a few VERY lucky die rolls. It's a bit risky (and a bit cheesy, IMO), but it's worth it, for some. Me? I haven't built my LRC/LRR yet, but it won't see use until I have CC termies to fill it and the points to make sure they're one part of the list.

With CSM, I run 2 Raiders in 1k. Not much responds to that very well...

"Super-units" are never a great idea. I play Guard and considered taking an allied LR (as a dedicated transport for an Inq Lord).

But, really, I can take 4 squads of beefed up Guardsmen for that price. A lot of times you have to ask yourself if all these expensive things are really worth it when you consider what else you can get, and a lot of the time the answer will be "no".

I just played someone who took Nob Bikers in 1k, and, yeah, he took out about half my army. But he was only able to take down a single target a turn, and with 3 infantry blobs and 4 vehicles he simply wasn't able to kill everything because the squad was worn down.

You need to make sure your opponent has many targets to shoot at - otherwise, your powerful squad will take too many wounds to save or your Land Raider will get shaken fairly easily and and you'll lose a turn of 250-point shooting.

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:With CSM, I run 2 Raiders in 1k. Not much responds to that very well...

My 1k eldar "take all commers" list would love such a list

Yeah my 1k DE would love it too . . . how many dark lances can you fit in 1000 points? A LOT! lol

Oshova

It's been my experience that Land Raiders underperform in games of 2000 point or less. They honestly don't have significantly more firepower than a Predator Annihilator and slogging along at 6" a turn just ain't gonna get your Terminators into combat soon enough. Besides, too many armies have cheap tank-killer weapons for me to field LRs in low point games.

Well, I play a Landraider in 1750 pts battles, but not in smaller pt games.
In small pt games you need numbers.

I LOVE it when my opponents take big bad *ss models (like LR's) in 1000 points lists.
That's because I ALWAYS take 2 or 3 Lascannons to deal with those situations.

Pop a 250+ point model on turn 1 and watch his efficiency (and face) drop. LOL

Eric

Kinda kills someone's mood when their big point drain dies on turn 1 . . . then they lose the will to fight, and make stupid mistakes etc. =D

Oshova

i like to use my LR to sit near a point and fire its las cannons, then release the 10 plague marines onto the point when the enemy attempts to take it. so its more defencive. it works prety well for me. i get good use of all the las cannon shots and i have my squad well concealed and ready to charge asap when needed. But i havent used a Land raider in lower than 3k games. ive seen it done effectivly. but the list was built around the L so when the LR gets destroyed the battle plan was Done.

tedurur wrote:

Iron_Chaos_Brute wrote:With CSM, I run 2 Raiders in 1k. Not much responds to that very well...

My 1k eldar "take all commers" list would love such a list

Oshova wrote:Yeah my 1k DE would love it too . . . how many dark lances can you fit in 1000 points? A LOT! lol

Oshova

Both things that generally respond well...

I play 1k for the lol, though. Competetive would be DP/PMs/Oblits

The smallest point game I play a LR for either my CSM or my SW is 1500 and then only if I have a unit I plan on riding in it. Usually CC Termies although i find some blood claws in a LRR can be kinda fun.

It's all about trial and error, I am currently working on a 1500pt 3 LR list, see

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/279993.page

MagickalMemories wrote:I LOVE it when my opponents take big bad *ss models (like LR's) in 1000 points lists.
That's because I ALWAYS take 2 or 3 Lascannons to deal with those situations.

Pop a 250+ point model on turn 1 and watch his efficiency (and face) drop. LOL

Eric

2 or 3 Lascannons kill a Raider on the first turn? Them's lottery odds friend. Still, your point has some merit: the risk of investing so many of your total points into a single unit is always risky in any game...it just seems that people are banking on the low point setting to reduce your available anti-tank options.

Still, I almost never leave home without 2 or 3 Zoanthropes...that'd probably deal with those pesky raiders...and it'll chew up the marines on the table too.

RxGhost wrote:2 or 3 Lascannons kill a Raider on the first turn? Them's lottery odds friend. Still, your point has some merit: the risk of investing so many of your total points into a single unit is always risky in any game...it just seems that people are banking on the low point setting to reduce your available anti-tank options.

Still, I almost never leave home without 2 or 3 Zoanthropes...that'd probably deal with those pesky raiders...and it'll chew up the marines on the table too.

; )
Well, I didn't say it happens *every* game. : )
Typically, if playing SM at that size, I've got 2-3 R-backs going. That's some TL Lascannon love, right there.
More than likely, you get 2 hits, possibly 3.
Odds aren't too bad.
I try to get ONE trooper with a Las in there, too. Just in case.

You're right re: their anti-tank hopes, I think, too.

Mmm. Zoeys.

Eric