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The Broadside Bash wrapped today. It was my first GT and a heck of an experience. I found it enlightening.

It was a 2000 point 5 round comp tourney with custom missions. This was my list:

KFF Mek
Ghaz
30 Boyz (Nob PK BP)
19 Boyz (Nob PK BP)
3 Meganobz (1 Combi Flamer, 1 Combi Rockitt) w Trukk (Ram)
3 Kanz KMB
3 Kanz KMB
1 Battlewagon (4 Rockitts, 1 Kannon, Plank, Ram)
15 Lootas
15 Lootas
1 Deffkopta (Rockitt w Buzzsaw)
1 Deffkopta (Rockitt w Buzzsaw)

This started out as a Kan wall and then morphed into a mech hybrid both for comp and strategic reasons. It's a decent list but has some weaknesses that were unfortunately exploited at the tournament. More on that later.

Note when I post my opponents' lists I'm giving the quick and dirty versions. I don't have every single upgrade listed.

Round 1 vs. Tau

Shas'el
Fire Warriors x6 Devilfish
Fire Warriors x6 Devilfish
Fire Warriors x6 Devilfish
Fire Warriors x6 Devilfish
Kroot w Hounds x 20
Kroot w Hounds x 20
Crisis Suit
Crisis Suit
Crisis Suit
Piranha
Piranha
Piranha
Hammerhead w Railgun
Hammerhead w Railgun
Hammerhead w Railgun

Pretty straight forward mech tau with most of the good units.

The first round mission was a spearhead mission with table quarter objectives. He won the roll and chose to go first.

I placed my grots and the 2 deffkoptas in reserve. I did not outflank.

I placed Lootas in area terrain forward. I put the rest of my list setup as a Kan wall hybrid with the wagon in the middle carrying the KFF and 19 boyz and the kanz flanking on each side. I put the 30 boyz on foot behind the kanz giving everything 4+ cover. My strategy was to move to the middle of the table with as many troops as possible and then move to the appropriate quarter at the end of the game.

He ended up popping my wagon relatively early with a railgun but not after it was close to the middle of the table. The remaining boyz from the wagon moved into cover and attempted to stay alive until time was called. Most of my Kanz spent time tied up shooting and assaulting Disruption Pods. He was able to destroy most of their weapons but only killed a couple. My Lootas were able to shoot for the entire game and that was the primary reason for victory: I ignored his crisis suits and Hammerheads but managed to kill all of his devilfish and then picked apart the firewarriors with additional shots afterwards. My deffkoptas took out 2 vulnerable firewarrior units that had lost their devilfish near the end of the game which proved crucial. The 30 man boy unit got tied up and weakened by outflanking kroot for a couple turns. Ghazghull's meganob trukk ended up taking out a couple troops and a Hammerhead in a single charge.

His second kroot unit arrived on the wrong side of the table in his own deployment zone. I contested with Ghazghull's meganob unit. My remaining boyz and grots got the rest of the quarters. I had 4 troops alive at the end of the game. He had one.

Result: Massacre Win (1-0)


I had fortunately practiced this mission prior to attending the bash. Because of this I knew how to play it. My army also matched up pretty well with his which was fortunate. Lootas just obliterate AV 12.

Round 2 vs. IG

Inquisitor Lord w Retinue
Storm Trooper x10
30 Man Platoon w Commisar
30 Man Platoon w Commisar
PCS
PCS
Veteran Squad x10 (Flamer and Plasma) w Chimera
LRBT
LRBT
LR Vanquisher
Valkyrie
Death Cult Assasin x3

I'm pretty used to playing IG but I'm generally accustomed to mech heavy lists. This was much different with two large blobs and few AV 12 targets to fire at.

The mission was a modified seize ground with a modified spearhead deployment. Instead of tallying scores for objectives at the end of the game they were tallied every turn. The Center objective was worth d3 points per turn and two off corner objectives were worth 1 point each per turn.

The modified spearhead meant we couldn't deploy near the center of the table (or the objective) but had to be seated back farther. I crammed my standard deployment into this space as best I could with the wagon in the middle, the trukk behind it and the kanz flanking and the foot boyz behind the kanz. I put my lootas off to the side in area terrain.

I won the die roll and went first.

Since I was going first I put my deffkoptas on the table and did a scout move. I ended up assaulting and killing an LRBT and attempted to shake the vet chimera unsuccessfully on turn 1. Loota fire finished off the other valk on the same turn and the storm troopers scrambled to get to the first objective in the corner. His vets got over to the second objective quickly. His 30 man blobs attempted to crash the center to collective d3 objective points per turn and my wagon boyz and 30 man blob did the same.

Unfortunately while I was in a position to contest and eventually control one of the corner objectives with Ghazghull very early in the game and wipe out the storm troopers standing there, I was unable to do the same for the veterans and he ended up collecting objective points at a rate of 1 per turn. I was now doing the same, but only was able to do it one turn behind him. The d3 point objective was contested in the middle by hordes of guardsmen and orks. Nobody was scoring that no matter what.

If everything held and nothing changed I was going to lose the game.

My wagon orks ended up mowing down one of the blobs from the safety of the vehicle. Aside from his Vanquisher and some lascannons he didn't have a lot of methods of dealing with this. My 30 man unit wiped his HQ and finished the first blob. My kanz tarpitted the second far enough away from the center objective. Unfortunately I could never score it because he just started crashing leman russes into the middle of the table. I couldn't deal with all his contesting vehicles all at once.

I started peppering his scoring vets with Loota fire and despite them not being in their chimera they went to ground and I couldn't get them to break until the final turn. They ran away and I scored the far objective uncontested.

The game was a tie

Result: Draw (1-0-1)

There were a couple revelations with this game. Firstly I deployed incorrectly. If I had set my wagon on the flank closer to the objective he was scoring all game I probably contest it immediately and eventually score it. This was a grave error and probably cost me the win. Secondly, for the first time in this format I felt troop light with only 4. I guess objective games like this can do that. Thirdly, I felt like my mobility wasn't very good. My Trukk was able to get where it needed to go but my footslogging boyz left a lot to be desired. If they had a ride, I probably get over to the far objective in time to maybe score it in spite of a bad deployment.

Regardless, with perfect generalship I still probably win this game with my list as it stands. However I wasn't perfect and my list isn't forgiving that way.

Round 3 vs Foot Eldar

Eldrad
Avatar
Harlequins x 8
Dire Avengers x 10 w Wave Serpent
Guardian Defenders x 10 w Bright Lance
Guardian Defenders x 10 w Bright Lance
Rangers x 5
Jetbikes x 3
Warp Spiders x 8
Wraithlord (Brightlance, Missiles, Flamer x2)
Wraithlord (Brightlance, Missiles, Flamer x2)
War Walkers x 2

This is a similar list to Blackmoor's winning WWS list. My opponent ended up placing second in the tourney and got an invite to Vegas. Grats to him.

My generalship in game 3 cost me a trip to the top tables. I made an array of mistakes. Part of it was not thinking about the mission objective, part of it was my general ignorance of eldar and part of it was a major depoyment error.

The mission was a spearhead deployment with a victory point win condition. Similar to kill points, but kills were measured in list points. The more valuable the unit you kill, the better. Unlike normal VP's though you had to kill the whole unit. No points awarded for half strength units.

I won the die roll and decided to go first.

I did my standard deployment but foolishly put my lootas too far back instead of forward. My opponent recognized this and just turtled up in the corner out of range. I scouted with my deffkoptas and then my opponent informed me that eldrad allows re-deployments following scout moves. The wave serpent I was about to assault suddenly was skirted away to safety.

These two gaffes would have still be surmountable if I had realized that I should have just been playing for the tie. Simply turtling myself in my own corner in this mission almost guaranteed that. My opponent could not shoot me from range. My lootas out-shot him at that distance. There was no reason to go to the middle of the table. There were no objectives to get. I figured I was playing for the win and wanted to clobber some eldar and by the time I was in the middle of the table realized my mistake. My wagon was bright lanced, my Kanz shot to pieces and eventually my boyz picked apart. I manged to take a couple troops with me, Ghaz got a nice assault on some guardians but without loota fire support (I had to keep moving them and missed firing opportunities) I was walking into a blender.

I was able to pick off some models in units but the scoring gave me no points for half sized units. Therefore units I widdled down to 1-2 models would duck into buildings and never get killed. I did manage to clear his harlequins and almost all of his troops. That was about it.

I knocked out about 800 points of my opponents army, however he had taken out 1500 points of mine. At the end of the game I had a trukk, a grot unit and two loota units to show for my efforts.

Result: Major Loss (1-1-1)

This was a humbling loss. My opponent was a capable player and his list was solid. My generalship was awful in this mission and a tie would have been almost guaranteed if I had played conservatively. Trying to get across the table in a spearhead against a mobile eldar list with most foot orks is a recipe for disaster. Having no particular reason to move across said table is even more embarrassing. Losing wasn't my lists fault, however as mentioned before, this list isn't forgiving if you mess up either.

Round 4 vs. Foot DH

I was hoping that finally losing would maybe put the better lists and better players behind me. Maybe I could scrounge together a couple wins on the second day and end on a positive note. Round 4 was going to a be a good matchup right? Nope.

Grey Knight Hero w Termie Retinue x 6 (THSS x2)
Stormtroopers x10 w Rhino
Dreadnaught w Lascannon
Land Raider Crusader
Grey Knights x 10
Grey Knights x 10
Grey Knights x 6
Assassin Operative
Inquisitor with Mystics

The mission was basically pitched battle seize ground with 4 objectives in the middle (you had to place them 14" from the table edges). That meant I had to crash into the middle of the table up against a metric load of cc specialist space marines. Great .

I won the roll and chose to go second. I put my deffkoptas in reserve outflanking.

Deployment was typical for me except the terrain caused some LOS problems for my lootas because they were 1 inch hills. I couldn't deploy my entire units how I would have liked. For most of the game I was able to shoot with them but rarely was able to shoot with the entire unit for LOS reasons.

I placed my wagon in the middle and flanked some kanz to the right. The Trukk hid behind the wagon. More kanz were deployed to the left but I couldn't give them the KFF combo because of terrain restrictions. They were on their own.

My opponent's shooting wasn't at all scary and I was able to get mostly into the middle of the table in an attempt to start taking objectives. Too bad for me I couldn't effectively shoot anything of his. He had a basically untouchable land raider that my kanz had to lumber to but never actually reached. He had a bunch of 3+ armor saves that my lootas couldn't really hurt all that effectively. They managed to crush his stormtroopers and pepper the GK's but that was about it. He eventually had some terminators on the table that kept assaulting my wagon and foot boyz and I couldn't seem to get a clean shot on because he kept holding assault on my turn and breaking on his before re-entering a new assault.

His assassin did her show up from out of nowhere move on one loota unit and tore it to pieces with a template and ensuing assault. My kans got shot up by the raider and the dread from range. I was able to dump some KMB shots into his grey knights but the terminators were never a valid target because of assaults and difficult to take out in CC because of THSS. I made a foolish move in throwing Ghaz and his MAN squad at the termies. Ghaz took out his Hero, but the remaining termies butchered the rest of my MAN's and eventually Ghaz much sooner than I had hoped, even with a WAAGH and a 2+ invuln save.

Even with my major MAN suicide mistake I still think this was the one game I was simply not going to win. His army was a nightmare for mine. He had no light vehicles to shoot sans a dread. He had a bunch of CC specialist troops with great armor saves scoring objectives in the middle of the table, and he had a termie unit that ate my nob unit for lunch. If some objectives were on my side of the table maybe I can score them because he can't reach me in time, but since they were mandated all in the center it was a slugfest there that I just lost.

On turn 5 I attempted to contest the objectives with turbo boosting deffkoptas and flat out trukks in order to mitigate the loss in the hope the game would randomly end on that turn. The game didn't end though and he was able to basically table me at this point.


Result: Massacre Loss (1-2-1)

This was the first loss where I feel like my army just didn't deliver. I was unable to keep up with his troops and I had no ability to control the center of the table. Loota LOS issues didn't help but honestly there weren't many great targets to shoot at. If I had more mobile troops I feel like I would have had a better chance in this game. I have played THSS matchups before and been moderately successful, but this mission only highlighted my weakness against them. As it was once my orks were on the ground they were pretty much fodder. The mistake with the MAN's against his termies didn't help me at all, but I don't think it cost me the game either. I might have been able to squeak out a tie if I play perfectly and the game ends early but that would have been more about favorable rolls that playing skill.

Round 5 vs. Tau

Another matchup with Tau. This mission was similar to mission 2, only there were 3 Objectives along the center line around 18" apart instead of in the middle and corners. Deployment was pitched. All the objectives were worth d3 points per game turn. I had to get to the middle asap and hold them uncontested as long as possible. I was feeling troop light again.

Firewarrior x12 w Devilfish
Firewarrior x12 w Devilfish
Commander Shas'o
3 Crisis Suits
3 Broadside Battle Suit
1 Hammerhead Gunship
1 Sky Ray Gunship
Kroot and Hounds x27
Crisis Shas'vre

My opponent won the die roll and chose to go second. I deployed lootas in area terrain on each side of the board and did my combo setup in the middle of the wagon, trukk and flanking kanz and foot boys behind them. I put my deffkoptas on the table.

I scouted the deffkoptas and popped a devilfish and shook a Hammerhead on turn 1. Lootas took out the second devilfish eventually and now my opponent was out of transports. The firewarriors tried to cut down the foot boyz and did a pretty decent job but I quickly got my trukk over to an objective early and started racking up points. My opponent eventually outflanked kroot into one of my lootas and wiped it, deepstruck into the other unit and wore it down. My kanz were popping crisis suits and battlesuits with their KMB's but never could finish off the units. He made a point to eventually wipe my boyz on the ground, they broke and left the table. He immobilized my wagon early and I couldn't score an objective with it. I was afraid to leave the vehicle so I kept doing repair attempts with the KFF. My grots eventually arrived from reserve and I ran them over to the objective I already had as insurance.

My MAN wiped his Kroot and went back to keep scoring. My Wagon eventually recovered and tried to score another objective but got contested. After wiping about half my list he finally ran his firewarriors over to the third objective and picked up some points on the last turn. It wasn't enough. I won with more objective points.

Result: Minor Win (2-2-1)

So that's my GT. I get two wins against tau, a tie against IG and I misplay against eldar and get tabled by Grey Knights.

My list needs improvements. The 2000 point environment requires more troops than I have, especially in a 5 round tournament with 4 seize missions and zero cap controls. In every game I felt undermanned with scoring units. I also felt like they weren't resilient enough and I felt they weren't mobile enough. Having more troops makes winning easier in all of my games except game 3, probably swings game 2 to me and maybe even lets me eek out a tie in game 4.

I'm going to stick with orks for my next GT and I'm going to tighten up my game a bit. I'm also going to revise my list and try to make it more mobile and resilient in the troop department. I'm likely going to walk away from Kanz and foot troops and go with something more mobile. I'm anxious to begin playtesting for the next one.

btw. A big grats to Hulksmash for winning the GT. Well done!

I only won Best General, Steve Sisk won Best Overall but thanks Nash

Great overview of the whole tourney from your perspective. I think the serious focus on middle of the board objectives hurt you a lot more than your list did. No dawn of war, the really modified spearhead deployment, and the random amount of end of turn scoring objectives made it harder for slower armies to compete. The missions heavily favored faster tougher troop choices. I'd get in a few other tourney games before your next GT and see what more normal and less random missions look like before throwing out the baby with the bath water

Hulksmash wrote:I only won Best General, Steve Sisk won Best Overall but thanks Nash

Ah, yes well my bad. Best General is winning the GT in my view

Subjective Soft scores? Lame.

In fairness your third opponent (Toby) did eek me out by 3 battle points. He just won best painted/second overall instead

Hulksmash wrote:In fairness your third opponent (Toby) did eek me out by 3 battle points. He just won best painted/second overall instead

Ah ok I see the distinction now. I'm getting my awards mixed up!

And grats to Steve and Toby too!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hulksmash wrote:

Great overview of the whole tourney from your perspective. I think the serious focus on middle of the board objectives hurt you a lot more than your list did. No dawn of war, the really modified spearhead deployment, and the random amount of end of turn scoring objectives made it harder for slower armies to compete. The missions heavily favored faster tougher troop choices. I'd get in a few other tourney games before your next GT and see what more normal and less random missions look like before throwing out the baby with the bath water

This is a good point. More battlewagons are tempting though. They make my troops more resilient, the mobility is just an added bonus.

But you're right, the missions were bizarre. And don't worry, my lootas aren't going anywhere.

Good meeting you guys both in RL! I had a great time, but yeah, the soft scores were a bit too much, but we are all three competitive gamers.

I came to win Best General too, as subjective scoring isn't something you can control.

I thought your army was solid Kevin, but like HulkSmash said, the missions weren't the best for everyone. I think they were OK, but they needed dawn of war and ditch the stupid random victory points, that was not fun.

The foot DH army is the type of list that can take theory-hammer and turn it on it's head. It is one of the main reasons I try to design a list to solve problems rather than to counter a meta.

Good read.

Thanks for the report. Sorry about your tough matchup vs. the DHs and the mission.

I don't use Lootas, but have you thought about trimming each group down from 15 to 10? That would net you around 150 pts, enough to add something significant in terms of extra Troops.

I might also suggest testing out the Kanz with the cheapest weapon loadout so you are tempted to run and get them placed forward (to threaten) more often than shooting. I only use one mob of 3 so it's purely suggestion.

- Blackbone

DarthDiggler wrote:The foot DH army is the type of list that can take theory-hammer and turn it on it's head. It is one of the main reasons I try to design a list to solve problems rather than to counter a meta.

Good read.

This is a good point. I think both can be achieved though. Paying closer attention to the mission objectives during the list design process (I knew about them in advance) can also help.

Blackbone wrote: Thanks for the report. Sorry about your tough matchup vs. the DHs and the mission.

I don't use Lootas, but have you thought about trimming each group down from 15 to 10? That would net you around 150 pts, enough to add something significant in terms of extra Troops.

I only run my lootas in groups of 15 or 5 for LD test purposes but yes a 15/5/5 configuration would save me some points.

I might also suggest testing out the Kanz with the cheapest weapon loadout so you are tempted to run and get them placed forward (to threaten) more often than shooting. I only use one mob of 3 so it's purely suggestion.

I like Kanz as shooting platforms because they are BS3. Their close combat abilities are more of a deterrent than anything else and prevent my opponents from just charging forward into my foot boyz. In some matchups you run them forward, but in a lot of matchups that means eating melta fire. That wasn't something I had to worry about in any of my matchups but The KMB's did a nice job as just additional heavy firepower particularly in game 5 against crisis suits. That said they are pricey but if I'm not going to use my Kanz as anti-vehicle or anti heavy infantry I'd probably just drop them altogether and take more battlewagons.

Great reports, I appreciate it. I like seeing how the orks do and especially when they run with lists different than I normally take.

the eldar player cheated FYI.

eldrad divination happens before scout moves, not after.

check the Eldar FAQ page 2, bottom right corner. That probably was game changing for you. Just thought you should know about that.

Mafty wrote:the eldar player cheated FYI.

eldrad divination happens before scout moves, not after.

check the Eldar FAQ page 2, bottom right corner. That probably was game changing for you. Just thought you should know about that.

Good to know Mafty. I obviously don't have full knowledge of everyone's codex and in a tourney environment often have to take my opponent's word for it when they execute special rules since spending valuable time flipping through codices is understandably frowned upon. I'll know better next time.

What's interesting is of my 5 opponents this opponent clearly had the firmest understanding of all the rules. I'm surprised he missed that one.

Hey Kevin; sorry to hear that you didn't do well.

Why did you choose to go second against the DH? My orks are a very "go first" kind of list to try getting me across the board faster and under a turn less of fire...I'm wondering what would call for passing on the initiative?

I agree with you on the improvement. You've got some very mixed elements in there....foot slogging orks next to orks in a battlewagon! You've helped me build and revamp my list....have you thought of running something similar? A lot is the same between our lists, with some key differences.

Also, I know you're not a fan of my burna boys, but think what a unit of burnas would have done in your second game.

I think that the idea of "comp" in this tourney had Kevin Nash playing a slightly different list than his ideal smash mouth style.

I'm curious - how come you dropped the second BW for the Trukk (since the list looks mostly the same other than that, from the last BR posted by Somnicide)? I mean, the Trukk seemed to perform pretty admirably so maybe it wasn't a bad switch, but still!

EDIT: Also, random, points for objectives is absolutely ridiculous - there should at least be some kind of trade-off. Like, a very risky objective mgiht give D6 pts, an extremely safe one D3.... But even that is debatable.

Dashofpepper wrote:Hey Kevin; sorry to hear that you didn't do well.

Why did you choose to go second against the DH? My orks are a very "go first" kind of list to try getting me across the board faster and under a turn less of fire...I'm wondering what would call for passing on the initiative?

I went second because in seize objective games it's advantageous to have the last turn so you can crash objectives at the end of the game and your opponent can't respond to it.

His list had very little ranged firepower so I wasn't really concerned about him going first and shooting me to death. He didn't. The problems started when he started forcing assaults.

I agree with you on the improvement. You've got some very mixed elements in there....foot slogging orks next to orks in a battlewagon! You've helped me build and revamp my list....have you thought of running something similar? A lot is the same between our lists, with some key differences.

Yeah my list felt troop light and kinda slow and I can easily correct that. I'm going to drop the kanz, add another troop and mech up all my troops in shooty wagons. Hardly a divergence from my basic list building concepts just more mobile and resilient troops. Problem solved. Also for the record if I play the GT perfectly this list probably goes 3-1-1. My mediocre showing wasn't entirely the fault of the list, I made some generalship errors as well.

Also, I know you're not a fan of my burna boys, but think what a unit of burnas would have done in your second game.

I like burna boyz I just think 15 is overkill and "win more" against units that you probably should be beating anyway with 40 shoota shots or even 5 or 8 burnas. The other issue for me is they take a battlewagon slot which at this point I think should be reserved for my boyz. However if you're confident you have enough troops then burna boyz in a wagon is a great combo. No criticisms from me on the concept.

Burnas would have been funny to have in the middle of that table but honestly the dakka from 20 boyz shooting from a battlewagon was enough to wipe out one of his scoring platoons entirely along with his HQ. He had no troops on the center objective, I just couldn't get rid of his leman russes so I couldn't score it despite having about 40 boyz on top of it.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

number9dream wrote:I'm curious - how come you dropped the second BW for the Trukk (since the list looks mostly the same other than that, from the last BR posted by Somnicide)? I mean, the Trukk seemed to perform pretty admirably so maybe it wasn't a bad switch, but still!

Good question. Somnicide's daemon game and discussion with Dashofpepper had me come to the conclusion that for the Meganobz and Ghaz, the 155 shooty wagon is a waste because you want to be as mobile as possible, the plank is wasted because you want to get out and assault with ALL your power klaws. After this I started running them in a bare bones single big shoota wagon for test games and realized paying 100 + points for a transport that I don't plan on actually staying in and shooting from is kinda a waste of points. If the wagon is only used for transit why not just save 60 points and gain the fast movement option with the trukk? Sure they can try to pop it but I usually kept it behind the wagon (and therefore getting 3+ front cover or even out of LOS completely) until it was necessary for me to slingshot it into combat. Even if they do destroy it it's not like the explosion is gonna kill any of those models.

My opinion going forward on this for the time being is to always put shoota boyz/burnas/tankbustas in shooty battlewagons with stacked rockitts and kannons and always put close combat specialist units like nobs or meganobs in trukks. The AV 14 from the wagons is great of course but if you aren't going to actually stay in the vehicle and shoot out of it and would prefer to disembark and assault instead I feel the points are kinda wasted.

Kevin:

Its not wasted if it gets you where you need to go. AV14 will get you across the field where AV10 won't. Getting your trukk blown up won't kill any meganobs, but it *WILL* disembark them not where you want them to be, break up your flow and disrupt their effectiveness.

My answer to Leman Russ battletanks and Land Raiders alike is to run a battlewagon or a trukk up to it and boarding plank it. If the land raider went 12" and I can't hit it with 2-3 boarding planks....well, then I can use a grabbin' klaw or two on it next turn to ensure I can auto-hit it next turn.

Last night I played against a deathstar unit in a land raider with predator support. My deffkoptas crossed the table to deal with his predators early on, my 2x trukks hid behind 2x battlewagons, and when his land raider got into range....I went flat out with a trukk to get behind it, a trukk to one side, a battlewagon to the other side and a trukk blocking the assault ramps - I wrecked it, causing everything inside to die. I treasure boarding planks.

Cool, 3 MANz in trukk is what I'm planning/been using, but hadn't even considered putting Ghaz in there, for fear of it being a too tempting target.

Dashofpepper wrote:Kevin:

Its not wasted if it gets you where you need to go. AV14 will get you across the field where AV10 won't.

When you factor in side armor on the wagon and cover saves for either vehicle the trukk isn't THAT much worse. In the tourney my trukk was largely ignored because I constantly had it behind something either out of LOS or getting 3+ cover before it was too late for my opponent to bother shooting at it. I would just move 12 with it, debark 2, waagh 6 and then charge. At that point it's no longer a priority target, the payload is. Also the AV 14 is no guarantee. I went up against rail guns, I went up against vanquisher turrets, I went up against bright lances and broadsides. All of those are more than capable of popping AV 14, especially if it's open topped.

Getting your trukk blown up won't kill any meganobs, but it *WILL* disembark them not where you want them to be, break up your flow and disrupt their effectiveness.

Of Course. That doesn't mean you don't take wagons or that they obviously aren't good, but I'm not sure they are worth the 60 extra points for transport purposes only when by the time the trukk is already where most of the enemy firepower is going to matter, you've already disembarked.

My answer to Leman Russ battletanks and Land Raiders alike is to run a battlewagon or a trukk up to it and boarding plank it. If the land raider went 12" and I can't hit it with 2-3 boarding planks....well, then I can use a grabbin' klaw or two on it next turn to ensure I can auto-hit it next turn.

Last night I played against a deathstar unit in a land raider with predator support. My deffkoptas crossed the table to deal with his predators early on, my 2x trukks hid behind 2x battlewagons, and when his land raider got into range....I went flat out with a trukk to get behind it, a trukk to one side, a battlewagon to the other side and a trukk blocking the assault ramps - I wrecked it, causing everything inside to die. I treasure boarding planks.

I don't dispute this strategy that's why I put planks on my wagons as well. I just don't see much point in using them with a MAN unit w Ghaz where you're going to have 12 PK attacks in the vehicle rendered useless. If you're going to run the unit you should just disembark. Boyz with a nob PK are a different story.

number9dream wrote:Cool, 3 MANz in trukk is what I'm planning/been using, but hadn't even considered putting Ghaz in there, for fear of it being a too tempting target.

He might be but I guess if my opponent is spending a bunch of time shooting at him then they are ignoring my lootas or my shooty wagons with their long range guns. I put him with the nobs for the LD boost but splitting them up is also viable. In game 4 I should have done that sending Ghaz into the termies and the MAN's into a grey knight unit.

Dashofpepper wrote:Kevin:

Its not wasted if it gets you where you need to go. AV14 will get you across the field where AV10 won't. Getting your trukk blown up won't kill any meganobs, but it *WILL* disembark them not where you want them to be, break up your flow and disrupt their effectiveness.

My answer to Leman Russ battletanks and Land Raiders alike is to run a battlewagon or a trukk up to it and boarding plank it. If the land raider went 12" and I can't hit it with 2-3 boarding planks....well, then I can use a grabbin' klaw or two on it next turn to ensure I can auto-hit it next turn.

Last night I played against a deathstar unit in a land raider with predator support. My deffkoptas crossed the table to deal with his predators early on, my 2x trukks hid behind 2x battlewagons, and when his land raider got into range....I went flat out with a trukk to get behind it, a trukk to one side, a battlewagon to the other side and a trukk blocking the assault ramps - I wrecked it, causing everything inside to die. I treasure boarding planks.

Blocking the exit so they all die. I never thought of that.

Thats awesome, and a little bit evil.

I agree on the MANZ + Ghazghkull.....but I don't think I'd ever use MANZ either.

And in terms of side armor and such....I don't have a lot of trouble with people getting side armor on my battlewagons. My battlewagons generally roll up the side of the field, and a soft V shape can present front armor to pretty much everything...and I use my trukks to prevent drop pods getting within 2d6 range of my battlewagon rear armor...but they don't really need it either.

I used to run everything in trukks instead of battlewagons (Ghazghkull in a trukk with 10 nobs) but its just too easy to put them on foot.

Mobile Eldar and Mobile Tau though will take out side armor. Vendettas will too. And so will melta speeders or attack bikes. Side armor is easier to get to with a lot of armies. I'm thinking of finding a way to get a few fast side movers for my army to help with those dang Wagons......

Fortunately those fast movers are weakly armored. That's what 30 lootas and two units of buzzsaw, rokkit laden deffkoptas are for - taking down threats to the wagons.

*edit*

And Hulksmash, are you serious? I honestly don't think that there exists *any* ork armylist I could build that could beat your razorback spam.

Well over the weekend the only 2 draws I had were because of my lack of ability after the pod landed and fired to take out LR's and Battlewagons from over 6" away. So yeah, I'm considering getting a few MM Speeders. Not sure what I'll drop but I think I can pull in two in exchange for a rune priest. I'll just have to see what I can tweak Always gotta make it better!

Hulksmash wrote:Well over the weekend the only 2 draws I had were because of my lack of ability after the pod landed and fired to take out LR's and Battlewagons from over 6" away. So yeah, I'm considering getting a few MM Speeders. Not sure what I'll drop but I think I can pull in two in exchange for a rune priest. I'll just have to see what I can tweak Always gotta make it better!

I was really happy with that tie. You had a great last turn of shooting and target priority (you and your "ideas") and I made horrible leadership rolls that really tipped the game. with my trukk in reserve (just would have cheesed it and hid it behind large terrain in the qtr you couldnt reach) it probably still would have been a tie if it went another round because of the 18 boyz left hidden behind the wagon. cant wait to play you this weekend (just need to find a sitter).

Kevin, I dont think we have ever played an ork vs. ork game. mabey next time I'm at Absolute blues house we can get a game in.

what mean THSS ?

what mean THSS ?

It means Thunderhammer + Storm Shield, a favored load-out for Space Marine Terminators.