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Which Warbuggy weapon is your favorite? Next on my list of Ork model-building is a team of Warbuggies/Wartrakks for my Kult of Speed, but I can't decide what kind to make. The way I see it, each weapon has its specific uses, advantages, and disadvantages:

~TL Big Shoota: long-range anti-infantry
+: cheap, plenty of shots that are likely to hit, still useful in case of immobilization
-: already have plenty of Big Shootas elsewhere in the army

~TL Rokkit Launchas: mid-range anti-vehicle/hard target killer
+: Fairly likely to get at least two S8 hits, can pop transports and the like
-: Deffkoptas hunt tanks better since they can have Buzzsaws, outflank, etc.

~Skorcha: really close-range anti-infantry
+: built-in Trakk upgrade, no reliance on BS, takes best advantage of Fast rule
-: have to get very close, most expensive option

Right now, I'm leaning toward either Rokkits or Skorchas. What does everybody else prefer on their Buggies?

Keep in mind that for the price of one Deff Kopta with Rokkit+Buzzsaw, you get two rokkit buggies. Buggies are also less likely to die after the first turn and can be used for movement blocking.

Big Shoota buggies are fairly useless really. If you want anti-infantry take Warbikes, they do it better.

Rokkit buggies are my preference. They're dead cheap, you can give them trakks so they can go anywhere, and since they're fast you can easily get side-armor shots. In addition, AV 10 is just enough that small arms are largely ineffective, so they draw the fire of things like autocannons, heavy bolters and plasma weapons away from your boyz/nobz/MANZ. And since they're cheap it's easy to take 9 and not care at all if they die.

Rokkit buggies. With the move, range, and twin-linking, it's a great unit. Skorchas are nice, but Orks need more anti-armor than anti-infantry, and you want to keep the rokkit buggies at a distance. Enough S4 melee attacks can kill them and they are fragile enough as it is.

I have been debating Deffkoptas vs. Warbuggies in my head the past couple days.

Deffkoptas w/TL Rokkits
+ jetbike
+ outflank
+ upgrade to buzzsaw (as said above you can take two buggies for the same price)
- insta-killable
- low leadership (so taking more than one has other problems)

Warbuggy
+ 10 points cheaper
+ no leadership so you can take a squadron
- Weak AR and open-topped
- Squadron rules (getting destroyed on 3+)

The biggest problem I been having with my Orks is taking out transports and such and the only answer I can some up with is more Rokkits.

So take Tankbustas. They're excellent anti-vehicle Orks.

Nurglitch wrote:So take Tankbustas. They're excellent anti-vehicle Orks.

75 points for 5...240 if you want to deck a full squad out with Nob and Tankhammer

Transport options.... Looted Wagon = 35 points or a battle wagon...

Plus Glory Hog Rules...

Not seeing it...

The Glory Hog rules aren't a problem because you want them to go after vehicles. They don't need a transport because they have 24" ranged weapons in the form of Rokkits. And the price isn't an issue because you don't have to max them out, and their value in killing vehicles is far in excess of their points-value.

Tankbustas are alright, but Glory Hogs does annoy you more than you'd think. He's a few situations:

All Drop Pod armies. Guess what they waste the entire game shooting at? 35 point drop pods!

Shoot the unit of Daemon Prince or the weaponless, immobilized rhino? We shoot the Rhino because though it's useless, it's not DESTROYED. Same situation with any vehicle + better target in LOS.

Anything that forces your hand in an irrational way will eventually bite you in the tuckus. Compound that with a unit that needs to be high numbers to be effective (12+ if you want to have decent rates of fire and avoid leadership problems) and it gets worse.

Welp, looks like I'm going with Rokkits. Thanks for all the advice and analysis.

Perhaps the second set I make will be Skorchas, just because they're cool, too.

Nurglitch wrote:The Glory Hog rules aren't a problem because you want them to go after vehicles. They don't need a transport because they have 24" ranged weapons in the form of Rokkits. And the price isn't an issue because you don't have to max them out, and their value in killing vehicles is far in excess of their points-value.

Need to explain how you plan on getting them into range of what you WANT to hit if they are footslogging, without being shot to pieces?

If you take a less than maxed squad, and they footslog, they'll likely run away as soon as 2-3 of them die (depends on how far from not maxed you go). In addition, they can't run as they have to attempt to shoot every turn that there's a vehicle within LOS, and finally... they are BS2 Orks with 1 shot each. If you can somehow get them into position without a vehicle, and without them being shot up, you are still looking at a pretty small number of shots actually hitting, and they don't even have AP1 or tank hunters so there's really no guarantee that the pens you do get do very much.

I can see tankbustas working, but not without a transport...

If you're going to take Warbuggies/trakks/skorchas, best to go with the rokkits as others have said. It'll provide the long range anti-tank firepower you need to bring down those transports, so your boys can clobber the occupants. Works great in a KoS list.

Don't forget about Deffkoptas with Buzzsaw, either. Having single small units scout (assuming you get first turn) for a first turn charge into immobile vehicles is quite effective for the point cost.

number9dream wrote:
Need to explain how you plan on getting them into range of what you WANT to hit if they are footslogging, without being shot to pieces?

If you take a less than maxed squad, and they footslog, they'll likely run away as soon as 2-3 of them die (depends on how far from not maxed you go). In addition, they can't run as they have to attempt to shoot every turn that there's a vehicle within LOS, and finally... they are BS2 Orks with 1 shot each. If you can somehow get them into position without a vehicle, and without them being shot up, you are still looking at a pretty small number of shots actually hitting, and they don't even have AP1 or tank hunters so there's really no guarantee that the pens you do get do very much.

I can see tankbustas working, but not without a transport...

This. Tankbustas can be quite effective, but they can also spend the entire game single-mindedly shooting at empty transports and Drop Pods. The one is about as likely as the other. If they had Tank Hunters, they'd be good; as it is, they're just average.

I like the rokkit buggies, especially if you have a KFF on the board... With other transports on the board, you can have the Buggies block LOS against people that would just shoot at your transports...

If they do not block LOS, they will at least obscure your vehicles that are beyond KFF range...

105 points is my ideal price range for a light tank... 3 S8 shots that hit 5/9 of the time sounds good to me...

Av 10 open topped is quite lame as on a glance, you lose a buggy 1/3 of the time and will effectively lose a buggy 1/2 of the time (weaponless buggy is great for assigning a penetrating shot).

Overall, it provides target saturation as they will have to deal with the buggies (I take 9) because they will get annoying as they thin MEQS units and blow up rhinos.

One thing to keep in mind, is that you can still ram vehicles... 18" movements translates into a S6 attack... If the buggy survives, add an additional S8 shot...

Pretty sure buggies can't ram... Since they aren't classified as Tanks.

QuietOrkmi wrote:I like the rokkit buggies, especially if you have a KFF on the board... With other transports on the board, you can have the Buggies block LOS against people that would just shoot at your transports...

If they do not block LOS, they will at least obscure your vehicles that are beyond KFF range...

Have you seen the warbuggy models?

They are not Blocking LOS on anything and they would have to cover up 50% of a trukk get a obscure save and that's not happening either.

I suppose you could do a Buggy wall and give cover saves to your footsloggers...

sourclams wrote:Don't forget about Deffkoptas with Buzzsaw, either. Having single small units scout (assuming you get first turn) for a first turn charge into immobile vehicles is quite effective for the point cost.

Not sure about buzzsaws. Ok on the charge you get 3 attacks but they're only str7

Suicide the kopta to juicy looking targets. Transports are easily the best target to ram that buzzsaw in.

All you hear is *whhhhhhiiiirrrrrrrllllll*, *shrrrreeeeeeddd* and *ah, that was my emprah saluting arm!*.

Tri wrote: Not sure about buzzsaws. Ok on the charge you get 3 attacks but they're only str7

Which reeks of awesomeness. 3 Attacks with 4+ to get a pen transports and if you get first turn you can usually get some nice auto hits

General_Chaos wrote:

Tri wrote: Not sure about buzzsaws. Ok on the charge you get 3 attacks but they're only str7

Which reeks of awesomeness. 3 Attacks with 4+ to get a pen transports and if you get first turn you can usually get some nice auto hits

... guess its not too bad. Also just been reminded that they hit the rear armour which does mean they pop most things.

Even if they do not, they force your opponent to deal with them which generally translates to losing movement or disembarking units. For their cost, they're a viable pain in the ass.

Just to clarify buggies cannot ram.

But can block LOS if you model them bigger (which I do since the current models are crappy as hell).

wait... they cannot ram? I thought the only requirement for ramming was that you are a vehicle... and you get a bonus for being a tank.

If a land speeder can ram a vehicle after turbo-boosting 24" (S8 attack) why can't the buggy?

QuietOrkmi wrote:wait... they cannot ram? I thought the only requirement for ramming was that you are a vehicle... and you get a bonus for being a tank.

If a land speeder can ram a vehicle after turbo-boosting 24" (S8 attack) why can't the buggy?

You must be a tank, or have a special rule/wargear, to ram. Vehicles (on both sides) get a bonus if they are tanks.

well, I will be darn... It is a special tankshock...

sourclams wrote:Even if they do not, they force your opponent to deal with them which generally translates to losing movement or disembarking units. For their cost, they're a viable pain in the ass.

What would be the best way to utilize deffkoptas in this manner? I have 6 of them, and I really like the possibilities, but sadly, I am still a bit of a noob and haven't actually used them in game yet.

MinMax wrote:

QuietOrkmi wrote:wait... they cannot ram? I thought the only requirement for ramming was that you are a vehicle... and you get a bonus for being a tank.

If a land speeder can ram a vehicle after turbo-boosting 24" (S8 attack) why can't the buggy?

You must be a tank, or have a special rule/wargear, to ram. Vehicles (on both sides) get a bonus if they are tanks.

Does Reinforced Ram count as this special wargear?

It's a debated point. Some people claim that the Reinforced Ram only allows a non-tank vehicle equipped with it to Tank Shock and not Ram. Other people claim that the Reinforced Ram allows a non-tank vehicle to Ram as well as Tank Shock because the rules for ramming include the note that ramming is a special type of tank shock attack (or words to that effect).

Nurglitch wrote:It's a debated point. Some people claim that the Reinforced Ram only allows a non-tank vehicle equipped with it to Tank Shock and not Ram. Other people claim that the Reinforced Ram allows a non-tank vehicle to Ram as well as Tank Shock because the rules for ramming include the note that ramming is a special type of tank shock attack (or words to that effect).

In addition when the rules were written in 4th you could tank shock vehicles ...

dont take buggys take bikes or deffkoptas